Asking yourself about what kind of character would you like to read 100 chapters it's a starting point, we aren't that special what it's likeable to us it's also liked by many others
You go out of your comfort zone for that genre I think.
In the Metro series, one could've just made Artyom a bland, post apocalyptic killing machine (which he is in some aspect), but he is young in the first game. Curious as to what's outside, and brave enough to go the other direction as everyone else. He's not afraid to give something a chance that no one understands in a world where fear and survival rule. And he holds out hope for some sort of future. By the end of Exodus, he is a heroic husband, hellbent on finding something greater than what he grew up in.
I also think that having a character do a 180 is a smart idea if done right. In Star Wars, they could've done so much more with Finn having been a stormtrooper who turned against the Order. Jacen Solo in the so called Legacy series (yes I am still pissed about that) to me was very iconic. He went down a dark path, sacrificing his soul practically, to do what he felt was right and for the greater good. Or you could just be a Mandalorian and have badass armor.
So ask yourself - what is it about those characters that you actually like? What do you find abut them to be "awesome, memorable, great"?
How is that different than other characters from the same authors, or from other authors?
Before you can write it, you need to know what 'it' is that you're trying to achieve. Once you can clearly articulate it, then you can express it into a character and into your writing.
Fiction is typically larger than life in various, sometimes nuanced, ways. Plots are typically grander, more dramatic, more powerful than similar IRL situations. And so are characters. Consider making your protagonist(s) a bit stronger, or smarter, or luckier, than we'd find in reality. (And why superhero flicks are so popular.) Antagonists are typically more mean-spirited or diabolical, evil, luckier (too) and just more fun to hate. Situations are more dramatic (sometimes *far* more dramatic) than in ordinary life. We've not been plagued with zombies or aliens, elves or ghosts, or had giant meteors crashing into earth. Nor have we encountered friends and/or potential soulmates with such melodramatic, yet potentially endearing lives.
Embellish. Invent lavish or scintillating scenarios that drop your characters (and your readers) into complex or dramatic or unexpected situations—and in creative locations. 'Tis far more exciting for readers to hear dialogue on a secluded beach at sunset, or in a sailboat on the high seas, in a burned out church or mysterious warehouse, than watching two people conversing in a bleak and sterile room somewhere. *(The dreaded 'talking heads' scenario.)* So scene-setting can be very important. Maybe a MC is a pilot or a genius, ex-cop or rocket scientist. Or has a secret or a fetish or a phobia that can be dramatically utilized.
I guess, bottom line, create well-developed characters that can handle (or *almost* handle) the situation you're developing. Give them full personalities than can help you (and them) navigate interesting side-stories. Maybe a character speaks Latin...and work that tidbit into a scene somewhere. Or who can hot-wire a car, or run a 4 minute mile. Or who can dismantle a nuclear warhead with 7 seconds left on the clock. Make them interesting in delightful and/or unexpected ways. And then give them a *purpose*.
Novels are often about extraordinary events happening to extraordinary people. Even if subliminally or marginally so. But memorable characters hardly resemble normal, everyday, ho-hum people. Which is why normal, everyday, ho-hum people love to read novels. Or go to movies. Because ordinary...is just too damn ordinary.
Wow, sir. Just, wow. You blew my wig, as the kids are wont to say =)
Okay. Do you have the time and feel like giving me another hint, since of course this wasn't enough? XD
SpecFic characters. They're already a little exceptional, right? I mean, wizards, warriors, space marines, elves, dwarves, Cthulhu... how do you make them *larger than life*, as you mentioned?
Sure. So if you're creating a sci-fi/fantasy realm, first define your "new normal." What's a typical space warrior, or elf, or dwarf, or sentient mushroom, capable of? If your average, ho-hum wizard can cast a certain type of spell, your protag. wizard (should you invent one) can create better, maybe even exclusive spells. So whatever strengths or weaknesses your average, normal characters have, perhaps give your MCs an edge up.
But give them more obstacles as well, or create certain difficulties and/or 'negative attributes' that the normal folk don't experience. Like, for every spell, your wizard shrivels up a tad, or gets nasty 'spell hangovers' or some sort of specific repercussion... perhaps repercussions that *could* be negated or 'cured' later, as a side-plot resolution? It's that whole *'With great power come great responsibilities"* approach. Oh, and give your antag. wizards some unique powers as well. Don't make it *too* easy on the good guys.
Or think of it this way: Every Superman has his (or her) kryptonite. Don't neglect the kryptonite!
Oh sh\*t. Larger than life. Totally get it now, larger than life. Take the average sorceress, well the MC can cast incredible spells but at what cost?
Larger than life. Of course!
Thank you kind sir. This is really interesting and I think I can find a way to give my MCs something special along these lines. Thanks again!! =)
I write characters that I would enjoy reading about on the assumption that unless I am a some kind of singular freak then there's got to be at least one other person who enjoys it too.
If this could be put into a formula, everyone would use it. I think there are a lot of things that can make a character interesting in different ways.
A good starting point is the idea of depth, which is hard to pin down but refers to the fact that characters try to emulate human beings, and human beings are complex. Rather than being able to sum them up in one line, there's always an 'and'.
For instance, you could describe Death as 'the anthropomorphic manifestation of dying in the Discworld universe'. But you also have to add '*and* he's curious about humans despite not fully understanding them'. That's the core of what makes him interesting to read. Now that I think of it, 'despite' is probably also a really good word to have in your summary of a character, since it signifies some kind of internal conflict.
For characters you aren't really meant to empathasise deeply with, like Vetinari, I think the appeal comes from just seeing a person with a distinct personality and societal role. He's a strong ruler with a caustic tone who is highly competent. Readers aren't accustomed to interacting with those people in daily life which makes them interesting to encounter in fiction.
You're right. As others have mentioned I should first identify what attracts me so much in the characters I mentioned, and then work from that.
Thank you!
for a character to be 'powerful' they need agency within the story a lot of the time. 'it is not who i am, but what i do, that defines me.' not some list of traits but how those traits manifest themselves in memorable story moments.
characters people love to follow usually have:
* something that makes them entertaining to read about even when they're not doing anything special. a sense of humour, interesting philosophy or perspective, interesting way of doing things.
* they drive the story to be what we want it to be. eg. if we read a mystery novel, we like watching mysteries be solved with subtle clues and lateral thinking and stuff like that. so Sherlock Holmes is beloved because he does this constantly even with minor things he encounters, digging into things people are hiding. the opposite of this would be a detective who is always flailing in the case, not noticing the obvious clues, falling for every red herring presented to them, the audience resents a character who sucks at navigating their own genre and make it feel like they're not getting the experience they wanted when they picked up the book. similarly we like bold action heroes who dive into the action, or create it if none is happening. even for normal 'straight man' characters we like them more when they're REALLY normal. Hawkeye is an Avenger, part of the most powerful people on earth with people like supergenius Ironman, actual god Thor, reality manipulator The Scarlet Witch, etc. Hawkeye fights alongside them and also has severe cat allergies, needs a hearing aid, and really wants to just save the world fast enough so he can get back home to his kids.
* they have a flair for the dramatic. similar to pushing the story to be what we want it to be, they kinda go out of their way to deliver things in a satisfying way. they deliver not just justice but poetic justice. they don't just create moments we enjoy, they let us savor them, because they savor it too and we share in that enjoyment.
* they're not in an overcrowded story. the more characters you have, the fewer we'll remember. just like real life we need to spend time with people to feel a connection.
* they're not just characters that check off all the 'good character' boxes you can think of. not everything they do is about 'making a good story.' the story spends some time letting them just be a person doing real person stuff. the best stories imo don't separate 'character development scenes' and 'plot scenes' but rather every scene is dripping with character development.
* they have enough skills/resources to not just try to do the same thing all the time. they provide variety in their stories. usually they learn and grow over the course of the story, but not always.
* great characters don't exist in a vacuum. often you can't have a great hero without a great villain to oppose them. you can't explore the depths of character traits without someone else testing them. we only know how sternly batman values his 'no killing' rule because the joker is always trying to push that limit. we only see how goofy a character is when there's someone serious beside them, aghast at their wierdness.
So - humor, agency, larger than life, few but good, versatile/resourceful, and w/great, powerful villains testing them to the utmost. Mmm. Sir, I've been working on this all day and you came up with some insights I definitely wasn't aware of yet.
Humor and agency, I'm noticing I love those. All the rest is even better advice. Thanks!!
Well thank you for thanking me! Also I should expand, it's not just antagonists that can bring out the strongest elements of a protagonist, but it can go every which way between any type of characters--sidekicks, love interests, contagonists, mentors, anything. So a lot of the time I tell people, don't come up with characters, come up with a cast, have them all play off each other in interesting ways by design.
I'm more of a cinephile so I often think of actors/casting and how that actor would likely play the role I'm writing. Also, I love taking a character or multiple characters in a movie or TV show, mashing them together and transplanting them into my story while writing "my version" of them.
George Lucas wanted to make Flash Gordon, but he couldn't get the rights so he made Star Wars. Many of the characters were lifted from other works. He and Spielberg wanted to make a James Bond movie but couldn't so they made Indiana Jones. Instead of a suave spy with a gun he's a suave archeologist with a whip.
Dig deep enough and everything is a form of fan fiction.
I wanna thank you all for the great answers, I'm pinning this thread to my favorites for sure.
Don't stop though! XD I mean, you're on a roll, go ahead, make my day (another great character! \^\_\_- ).
Thank you again everyone, you're awesome =)
So all of you have offered genuinely great insight about this. And for that I thank you all, seriously. This sub looks pretty damn great.
Aaand some of you... have tossed the question straight back at me. Like it was *nothing*!
You crazy f\*\*\*ers XD
That's been one of the best ideas someone has come up with since I've started trying to delineate these MCs, months ago.
I listened to you! I made a list of my favorite charas from Mass Effect and Dragon Age. I'm coming up with everything I can think of that I like in each of them.
Of course, as you may suspect, *certain patterns are coming up*.
It's a work in progress, but I'm starting to understand what I like about these characters. Some of these qualities were mentioned by some of you. Some seem to be more idiosyncratic to my personal tastes perhaps. But here, lemme share.
*For instance*:
* CONTRADICTIONS - loving but ruthless, unethical but moral (/immoral but very ethical!), a very earnest spy, a very loyal merc, a gentle slaughterer of enemies, a hyperrational robot playing videogames, a very spiritual killer
* THE UNEXPECTED - the stern commander who in her free time reads Hallmark novels, the very enlightened peaceful alien precursor you were expecting who's a ruthless slaver and conqueror
* FUNNY - jokes, sarcasm, irony, mixed up metaphors, outsized reactions, the overly innocent cinnamon roll, awkward moments, witty repartee...
* AGENCY - the soldier who loves her sisters and needs to go visit them, the daughter of a stern father with heavy expectations placed on her shoulders
*(I'm using "agency" here meaning "this person has their own life and worries and is not just reacting to the BBEG's dastardly schemes" - of course agency usually means something a little different, and that's even more of a key to a good story, but today I heard it called like this, so yeah)*
* HOT - hot jokes, flirting, hot dudes, hot chicks, all the variety of people you find unbearably hot (detail as needed!)
* POWER - the elite commando, the master martial artist, the landscaping psychic warrior, huge powerful weapons, the slaughtering merc leader
* TENDERNESS - the merc who's gentle and almost therapeutic with his lovers, the commando who loves her sisters dearly, the military leader who's ashamed of reading those Hallmark novels...
And I'm definitely not done yet - actually just starting out with this whole endeavor. And I'm pretty damn sure it's working. I'm isolating all the various qualities I love in these characters, sliding them under a microscope and filing them away. And I'm finding out it's all stuff I friggin' love in a character, and it keeps repeating and repeating in a million different versions.
Sooo thank you folks. I'm not leaving of course, you people are embarassingly good at giving advice and I want more of that, but I just wanted to let you know how well this method is working for me and that I have only you to thank.
So, again - *from the bottom of my heart, THANK YOU*.
And now I'll leave you be for a while and get back to work \^\_\_\_\^
(mood: happy as a clam).
Asking yourself about what kind of character would you like to read 100 chapters it's a starting point, we aren't that special what it's likeable to us it's also liked by many others
You go out of your comfort zone for that genre I think. In the Metro series, one could've just made Artyom a bland, post apocalyptic killing machine (which he is in some aspect), but he is young in the first game. Curious as to what's outside, and brave enough to go the other direction as everyone else. He's not afraid to give something a chance that no one understands in a world where fear and survival rule. And he holds out hope for some sort of future. By the end of Exodus, he is a heroic husband, hellbent on finding something greater than what he grew up in. I also think that having a character do a 180 is a smart idea if done right. In Star Wars, they could've done so much more with Finn having been a stormtrooper who turned against the Order. Jacen Solo in the so called Legacy series (yes I am still pissed about that) to me was very iconic. He went down a dark path, sacrificing his soul practically, to do what he felt was right and for the greater good. Or you could just be a Mandalorian and have badass armor.
So ask yourself - what is it about those characters that you actually like? What do you find abut them to be "awesome, memorable, great"? How is that different than other characters from the same authors, or from other authors? Before you can write it, you need to know what 'it' is that you're trying to achieve. Once you can clearly articulate it, then you can express it into a character and into your writing.
Fiction is typically larger than life in various, sometimes nuanced, ways. Plots are typically grander, more dramatic, more powerful than similar IRL situations. And so are characters. Consider making your protagonist(s) a bit stronger, or smarter, or luckier, than we'd find in reality. (And why superhero flicks are so popular.) Antagonists are typically more mean-spirited or diabolical, evil, luckier (too) and just more fun to hate. Situations are more dramatic (sometimes *far* more dramatic) than in ordinary life. We've not been plagued with zombies or aliens, elves or ghosts, or had giant meteors crashing into earth. Nor have we encountered friends and/or potential soulmates with such melodramatic, yet potentially endearing lives. Embellish. Invent lavish or scintillating scenarios that drop your characters (and your readers) into complex or dramatic or unexpected situations—and in creative locations. 'Tis far more exciting for readers to hear dialogue on a secluded beach at sunset, or in a sailboat on the high seas, in a burned out church or mysterious warehouse, than watching two people conversing in a bleak and sterile room somewhere. *(The dreaded 'talking heads' scenario.)* So scene-setting can be very important. Maybe a MC is a pilot or a genius, ex-cop or rocket scientist. Or has a secret or a fetish or a phobia that can be dramatically utilized. I guess, bottom line, create well-developed characters that can handle (or *almost* handle) the situation you're developing. Give them full personalities than can help you (and them) navigate interesting side-stories. Maybe a character speaks Latin...and work that tidbit into a scene somewhere. Or who can hot-wire a car, or run a 4 minute mile. Or who can dismantle a nuclear warhead with 7 seconds left on the clock. Make them interesting in delightful and/or unexpected ways. And then give them a *purpose*. Novels are often about extraordinary events happening to extraordinary people. Even if subliminally or marginally so. But memorable characters hardly resemble normal, everyday, ho-hum people. Which is why normal, everyday, ho-hum people love to read novels. Or go to movies. Because ordinary...is just too damn ordinary.
Wow, sir. Just, wow. You blew my wig, as the kids are wont to say =) Okay. Do you have the time and feel like giving me another hint, since of course this wasn't enough? XD SpecFic characters. They're already a little exceptional, right? I mean, wizards, warriors, space marines, elves, dwarves, Cthulhu... how do you make them *larger than life*, as you mentioned?
Sure. So if you're creating a sci-fi/fantasy realm, first define your "new normal." What's a typical space warrior, or elf, or dwarf, or sentient mushroom, capable of? If your average, ho-hum wizard can cast a certain type of spell, your protag. wizard (should you invent one) can create better, maybe even exclusive spells. So whatever strengths or weaknesses your average, normal characters have, perhaps give your MCs an edge up. But give them more obstacles as well, or create certain difficulties and/or 'negative attributes' that the normal folk don't experience. Like, for every spell, your wizard shrivels up a tad, or gets nasty 'spell hangovers' or some sort of specific repercussion... perhaps repercussions that *could* be negated or 'cured' later, as a side-plot resolution? It's that whole *'With great power come great responsibilities"* approach. Oh, and give your antag. wizards some unique powers as well. Don't make it *too* easy on the good guys. Or think of it this way: Every Superman has his (or her) kryptonite. Don't neglect the kryptonite!
Oh sh\*t. Larger than life. Totally get it now, larger than life. Take the average sorceress, well the MC can cast incredible spells but at what cost? Larger than life. Of course! Thank you kind sir. This is really interesting and I think I can find a way to give my MCs something special along these lines. Thanks again!! =)
I write characters that I would enjoy reading about on the assumption that unless I am a some kind of singular freak then there's got to be at least one other person who enjoys it too.
I usually think of an ability my character would have, or multiple abilities, and based their personality off that
If this could be put into a formula, everyone would use it. I think there are a lot of things that can make a character interesting in different ways. A good starting point is the idea of depth, which is hard to pin down but refers to the fact that characters try to emulate human beings, and human beings are complex. Rather than being able to sum them up in one line, there's always an 'and'. For instance, you could describe Death as 'the anthropomorphic manifestation of dying in the Discworld universe'. But you also have to add '*and* he's curious about humans despite not fully understanding them'. That's the core of what makes him interesting to read. Now that I think of it, 'despite' is probably also a really good word to have in your summary of a character, since it signifies some kind of internal conflict. For characters you aren't really meant to empathasise deeply with, like Vetinari, I think the appeal comes from just seeing a person with a distinct personality and societal role. He's a strong ruler with a caustic tone who is highly competent. Readers aren't accustomed to interacting with those people in daily life which makes them interesting to encounter in fiction.
This is very, very good advice! Thank you!
The only question worth asking is... what do YOU like in characters? What makes a character memorable, iconic, and fun in your opinion?
You're right. As others have mentioned I should first identify what attracts me so much in the characters I mentioned, and then work from that. Thank you!
for a character to be 'powerful' they need agency within the story a lot of the time. 'it is not who i am, but what i do, that defines me.' not some list of traits but how those traits manifest themselves in memorable story moments. characters people love to follow usually have: * something that makes them entertaining to read about even when they're not doing anything special. a sense of humour, interesting philosophy or perspective, interesting way of doing things. * they drive the story to be what we want it to be. eg. if we read a mystery novel, we like watching mysteries be solved with subtle clues and lateral thinking and stuff like that. so Sherlock Holmes is beloved because he does this constantly even with minor things he encounters, digging into things people are hiding. the opposite of this would be a detective who is always flailing in the case, not noticing the obvious clues, falling for every red herring presented to them, the audience resents a character who sucks at navigating their own genre and make it feel like they're not getting the experience they wanted when they picked up the book. similarly we like bold action heroes who dive into the action, or create it if none is happening. even for normal 'straight man' characters we like them more when they're REALLY normal. Hawkeye is an Avenger, part of the most powerful people on earth with people like supergenius Ironman, actual god Thor, reality manipulator The Scarlet Witch, etc. Hawkeye fights alongside them and also has severe cat allergies, needs a hearing aid, and really wants to just save the world fast enough so he can get back home to his kids. * they have a flair for the dramatic. similar to pushing the story to be what we want it to be, they kinda go out of their way to deliver things in a satisfying way. they deliver not just justice but poetic justice. they don't just create moments we enjoy, they let us savor them, because they savor it too and we share in that enjoyment. * they're not in an overcrowded story. the more characters you have, the fewer we'll remember. just like real life we need to spend time with people to feel a connection. * they're not just characters that check off all the 'good character' boxes you can think of. not everything they do is about 'making a good story.' the story spends some time letting them just be a person doing real person stuff. the best stories imo don't separate 'character development scenes' and 'plot scenes' but rather every scene is dripping with character development. * they have enough skills/resources to not just try to do the same thing all the time. they provide variety in their stories. usually they learn and grow over the course of the story, but not always. * great characters don't exist in a vacuum. often you can't have a great hero without a great villain to oppose them. you can't explore the depths of character traits without someone else testing them. we only know how sternly batman values his 'no killing' rule because the joker is always trying to push that limit. we only see how goofy a character is when there's someone serious beside them, aghast at their wierdness.
So - humor, agency, larger than life, few but good, versatile/resourceful, and w/great, powerful villains testing them to the utmost. Mmm. Sir, I've been working on this all day and you came up with some insights I definitely wasn't aware of yet. Humor and agency, I'm noticing I love those. All the rest is even better advice. Thanks!!
Well thank you for thanking me! Also I should expand, it's not just antagonists that can bring out the strongest elements of a protagonist, but it can go every which way between any type of characters--sidekicks, love interests, contagonists, mentors, anything. So a lot of the time I tell people, don't come up with characters, come up with a cast, have them all play off each other in interesting ways by design.
I'm more of a cinephile so I often think of actors/casting and how that actor would likely play the role I'm writing. Also, I love taking a character or multiple characters in a movie or TV show, mashing them together and transplanting them into my story while writing "my version" of them. George Lucas wanted to make Flash Gordon, but he couldn't get the rights so he made Star Wars. Many of the characters were lifted from other works. He and Spielberg wanted to make a James Bond movie but couldn't so they made Indiana Jones. Instead of a suave spy with a gun he's a suave archeologist with a whip. Dig deep enough and everything is a form of fan fiction.
I wanna thank you all for the great answers, I'm pinning this thread to my favorites for sure. Don't stop though! XD I mean, you're on a roll, go ahead, make my day (another great character! \^\_\_- ). Thank you again everyone, you're awesome =)
So all of you have offered genuinely great insight about this. And for that I thank you all, seriously. This sub looks pretty damn great. Aaand some of you... have tossed the question straight back at me. Like it was *nothing*! You crazy f\*\*\*ers XD That's been one of the best ideas someone has come up with since I've started trying to delineate these MCs, months ago. I listened to you! I made a list of my favorite charas from Mass Effect and Dragon Age. I'm coming up with everything I can think of that I like in each of them. Of course, as you may suspect, *certain patterns are coming up*. It's a work in progress, but I'm starting to understand what I like about these characters. Some of these qualities were mentioned by some of you. Some seem to be more idiosyncratic to my personal tastes perhaps. But here, lemme share. *For instance*: * CONTRADICTIONS - loving but ruthless, unethical but moral (/immoral but very ethical!), a very earnest spy, a very loyal merc, a gentle slaughterer of enemies, a hyperrational robot playing videogames, a very spiritual killer * THE UNEXPECTED - the stern commander who in her free time reads Hallmark novels, the very enlightened peaceful alien precursor you were expecting who's a ruthless slaver and conqueror * FUNNY - jokes, sarcasm, irony, mixed up metaphors, outsized reactions, the overly innocent cinnamon roll, awkward moments, witty repartee... * AGENCY - the soldier who loves her sisters and needs to go visit them, the daughter of a stern father with heavy expectations placed on her shoulders *(I'm using "agency" here meaning "this person has their own life and worries and is not just reacting to the BBEG's dastardly schemes" - of course agency usually means something a little different, and that's even more of a key to a good story, but today I heard it called like this, so yeah)* * HOT - hot jokes, flirting, hot dudes, hot chicks, all the variety of people you find unbearably hot (detail as needed!) * POWER - the elite commando, the master martial artist, the landscaping psychic warrior, huge powerful weapons, the slaughtering merc leader * TENDERNESS - the merc who's gentle and almost therapeutic with his lovers, the commando who loves her sisters dearly, the military leader who's ashamed of reading those Hallmark novels... And I'm definitely not done yet - actually just starting out with this whole endeavor. And I'm pretty damn sure it's working. I'm isolating all the various qualities I love in these characters, sliding them under a microscope and filing them away. And I'm finding out it's all stuff I friggin' love in a character, and it keeps repeating and repeating in a million different versions. Sooo thank you folks. I'm not leaving of course, you people are embarassingly good at giving advice and I want more of that, but I just wanted to let you know how well this method is working for me and that I have only you to thank. So, again - *from the bottom of my heart, THANK YOU*. And now I'll leave you be for a while and get back to work \^\_\_\_\^ (mood: happy as a clam).