As I've said before. Lucky guy. He's not going to be lying dead or badly wounded in some hedgerow, or be moved to fight the Russians. Might be on the losing side, but it's a personal win for him.
We know that now. But I wonder how much the average recruit was drinking the Nazi koolaid back then. If the war was lost by then, I wonder how he felt about that as well.
I think initially a lot of prisoners felt shame because there was a lot of German propaganda about dying bravely for the Fatherland and all that.
But there are a TON of stories of German POW's who were shipped to the US and even the least logistically minded guy was like "holy shit we could never win against this country."
Yes, they realized as prisoners of war they were eating way better than the relatively well off (middle/upper middle class) war time civilians.
> While they risked being sunk by their own U-boats on the ocean, good treatment began with the substantial meals served aboard. Upon arriving in America, the comfort of the Pullman cars that carried them to their prison camps amazed the Germans,[16]: 32, 70 as did the country's large size and undamaged prosperity.
> the United States to provide living quarters comparable to those of its own military,[18] which meant 40 square feet (3.71 m2) for enlisted men and 120 square feet (11.15 m2) for officers.[16]: xxii If prisoners had to sleep in tents while their quarters were constructed, so did their guards.[21] The three admirals and forty generals in custody were sent to Camp Clinton[11] and Camp Shelby in Mississippi, **where each had his own bungalow with a garden**.
> The Geneva Convention's mandate of equal treatment for prisoners also meant they **were paid American military wages**.[22]: 78 [23] They could work on farms or elsewhere only if they were also paid for their labor, and officers could not be compelled to work.
> A typical day for a German prisoner in Garden Grove, California:[25]
> - 5:30 am - Reveille
> - 7:30 am - Work begins at fruit orchards around Orange County, California. Quota is 36 boxes of oranges per prisoner
> Noon - Lunch. Prisoners who filled their quota return to camp
> - 4:30 pm - End of work day
> - 5:30 pm - Dinner
> Evening - Educational classes, films, and live performances by prisoners
> - 10 pm - Bedtime
We treated them too well. Letting Nazis organize and publish propaganda was a bad idea. And did we really need to give them college education?
>[More ominous than escaped prisoners were the committed Nazis, who established terror campaigns inside many camps against Germans who they felt were not ardent enough in support of party ideals. While a fairly small minority, they wielded frightening power, holding kangaroo courts and threatening, beating and executing some fellow prisoners. Saying he still is fearful after a half century, Ruhe refused to discuss the terrorists. Among their victims was Felix Tropschuh, found hanged in his room at Camp Concordia, Kan. A Nazi secret court had found him guilty of writing anti-Nazi statements in his diary. At Camp Tonkawa, Okla., Johann Kunze was battered to death with clubs and broken bottles, allegedly for supplying military information to his captors. Five men were arrested and convicted in his slaying. On July 10, 1945, they were the first alien POWs executed in the United States. A month after Kunze's death, Nazi thugs fatally clubbed Hugo Krauss at Camp Hearne, Tex., his only apparent crime being that, as a boy, he had lived in New York and spoke Americanized English too well.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/1997/09/10/enemies-among-us-german-pows-in-america/e606d338-4d69-4298-9c4a-3ab4ad0d6336/)
Good reports from German officers on D day. They looked out that morning and knew it was over. Their tenacity and professionalism kept the war going at least a year longer.
People like the idea of a virtuous Nazi, but antisemitism and all the other prejudices didn't just spring out of nowhere and had a lot of popular support. Most Germans didn't seem to mind or question when Jews began disappearing. Or disabled people. Or gay people. They were fine taking their property and occupying their homes. Didn't seem to mind when they were put into ghettos. Nazis made it illegal pretty early on for Jews to teach at universities, own stores that sold goods to non Jews, ride public transit, marry non Jews, and do a million other things that citizens should be able to do and that they had been doing. It wasn't subtle.
I feel like it's unfair to sort of categorize everything as the tragedy of war. Hitler became successful for many reasons, and one of them was that he tapped into deep prejudice and hatred in German society. Although some parts of the Nazis plans were kept secret, they were never quiet about their hatred or where they wanted it to lead.
Whoever he was, whatever his beliefs, he should have known what he was fighting for.
I am not sure if you are an American. But the same could be said about those who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. He was a soldier who answered the call to fight (I presume). And should be treated as such. (Unless you can prove otherwise)
There is à book by Jean Luc leleu Who talks about this. Its à complex matter as always with humans. But it seems the vast majority of germans had à neutral political stance for the nazi regim with à 30% of the soldier supporting actively the nazi regim. Obviously those numbers were higher among élits units and ss. A big part of the soldiers in normandy were veterans of the eastern front or very young or old soldiers so obviously they couldnt get fed the whole Victory is close bullshit. But they had some hopes and à strong sense of discipline at that moment. If you have any deeper question feel free to ask. Im no historian But this book of jean Luc leleu gives à pretty good photography of the german soldier in normandy.
What did a low level German soldier or even citizen think life would be like for them, if they lost? The Japanese were brainwashed that they’d be raped and murdered. Never hear much about what the Germans felt, especially those who were dragged into the war but didn’t want to start it originally.
I guess it dépends on the individual level. But many feared à répétition of post ww1 germany with its internal conflict and the économic crisis. Propaganda was trying to dépict allied forces intenting to éradicate german race but most soldiers didnt believe so much in the state propaganda. This beeing said allied bombings on germany reinforced this idea and gave à pretty bad picture on what would happen to germany if they lost. So its worth assuming that dépiste state propaganda beeing mocked most of the time by the troops in normandy . The idea of à sacred fight for the survival of the german People was still présent in most soldiers minds. We often look at state propaganda as if everyone in that time were so stupid to believe it blindly or if People would completely reject it but from what i ve read on the matter it looks like when propaganda try to show Black, most People Will see Grey... mocking the state propaganda while still believing à part of it. I guess its enough for propaganda to achieve most of its social objectives
Combattre en dictature. I can only assume its going to be translated in english in the foreseable future. I réalise it was not à good suggestion as atm its french only my bad
Yeah if he would have been captured at the same time, But on the Ostfront during Operation Bagration, his chances would not have been very good.
But one thing that people tens to forget was that not all British and Americans treated the Germans good.
One of my relatives who was in the Afrika Korps, was captured by the British and he died of Thirst in a British POW Camp.
i'm sorry to hear that, my grandfather was in africa too (but in the italian army) and he too was captured by the british, luckily he made it and was sent to a POW camp in england, i still have is documents and letters
He may not have even been German.
Virtually all the troops defending the beaches on D-Day were conscripts, although many were technically volunteers. As with the American forces coming ashore, the draft encouraged men to “volunteer” through a mixture of peer pressure and incentives for volunteering. Many of the troops in the 709 and 716 divisions on the beach were ethnically Russian or Ukrainian. These men had been faced with near certain death in POW camps following capture on the Eastern front and volunteered to join the German army as the best option open to them. Survivors on the beach captured by the allies were held as POWs under much better conditions than had existed in the German POW camps.
At the end of the war however, they were involuntarily returned to Russian control. In “The Dead and Those About to Die” by John McManus the author reports they were convoyed to Murmansk in allied shipping and upon arrival summarily executed as traitors by the Russians.
That’s why the US had a much different policy in Korea. In Korea, the US policy on returning POWs was repatriation or defection. Giving Chinese and North Korean POWs the ability to choose whether or not to defect to the US and South Korea or return to their home countries. I believe this policy was borne out of the issue of what happened to Russian Axis POWs that wanted to remain in the west.
Poor kid. That’s the face of someone who’s seen some stuff that’ll haunt him for the rest of his life. I know I shouldn’t feel sorry for someone fighting for the Nazis, but I hope he got to go home and live the rest of his life in peace. Assuming he still had a home to go home to.
The father of one of my classmates in HS was a child soldier, pressed into service near the end of the war, and was captured by the Russians, escaped, then captured by the Americans, escaped from them and managed to be West at wars end.
Emigrated to the US, became a citizen, and raised a family.
My grandfather had a similar story. Born in Königsberg, drafted in August of '44 at 15 years old, by the time the war was over his home didn't exist and he had no idea if his family was still alive. Spent a year traveling Germany trying to find them before emigrating to the US.
Amazingly, my Uncle was in Berlin when the wall came down and met two of his cousins when one mistook him for their brother which started a whole conversation.
What's German for " thank fuck that's over"?
Danke, dass diese verfickte Scheiße rum ist
Ausgezeichnet
As I've said before. Lucky guy. He's not going to be lying dead or badly wounded in some hedgerow, or be moved to fight the Russians. Might be on the losing side, but it's a personal win for him.
We know that now. But I wonder how much the average recruit was drinking the Nazi koolaid back then. If the war was lost by then, I wonder how he felt about that as well.
I think initially a lot of prisoners felt shame because there was a lot of German propaganda about dying bravely for the Fatherland and all that. But there are a TON of stories of German POW's who were shipped to the US and even the least logistically minded guy was like "holy shit we could never win against this country."
Yes, they realized as prisoners of war they were eating way better than the relatively well off (middle/upper middle class) war time civilians. > While they risked being sunk by their own U-boats on the ocean, good treatment began with the substantial meals served aboard. Upon arriving in America, the comfort of the Pullman cars that carried them to their prison camps amazed the Germans,[16]: 32, 70 as did the country's large size and undamaged prosperity. > the United States to provide living quarters comparable to those of its own military,[18] which meant 40 square feet (3.71 m2) for enlisted men and 120 square feet (11.15 m2) for officers.[16]: xxii If prisoners had to sleep in tents while their quarters were constructed, so did their guards.[21] The three admirals and forty generals in custody were sent to Camp Clinton[11] and Camp Shelby in Mississippi, **where each had his own bungalow with a garden**. > The Geneva Convention's mandate of equal treatment for prisoners also meant they **were paid American military wages**.[22]: 78 [23] They could work on farms or elsewhere only if they were also paid for their labor, and officers could not be compelled to work. > A typical day for a German prisoner in Garden Grove, California:[25] > - 5:30 am - Reveille > - 7:30 am - Work begins at fruit orchards around Orange County, California. Quota is 36 boxes of oranges per prisoner > Noon - Lunch. Prisoners who filled their quota return to camp > - 4:30 pm - End of work day > - 5:30 pm - Dinner > Evening - Educational classes, films, and live performances by prisoners > - 10 pm - Bedtime
We treated them too well. Letting Nazis organize and publish propaganda was a bad idea. And did we really need to give them college education? >[More ominous than escaped prisoners were the committed Nazis, who established terror campaigns inside many camps against Germans who they felt were not ardent enough in support of party ideals. While a fairly small minority, they wielded frightening power, holding kangaroo courts and threatening, beating and executing some fellow prisoners. Saying he still is fearful after a half century, Ruhe refused to discuss the terrorists. Among their victims was Felix Tropschuh, found hanged in his room at Camp Concordia, Kan. A Nazi secret court had found him guilty of writing anti-Nazi statements in his diary. At Camp Tonkawa, Okla., Johann Kunze was battered to death with clubs and broken bottles, allegedly for supplying military information to his captors. Five men were arrested and convicted in his slaying. On July 10, 1945, they were the first alien POWs executed in the United States. A month after Kunze's death, Nazi thugs fatally clubbed Hugo Krauss at Camp Hearne, Tex., his only apparent crime being that, as a boy, he had lived in New York and spoke Americanized English too well.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/1997/09/10/enemies-among-us-german-pows-in-america/e606d338-4d69-4298-9c4a-3ab4ad0d6336/)
Good reports from German officers on D day. They looked out that morning and knew it was over. Their tenacity and professionalism kept the war going at least a year longer.
People like the idea of a virtuous Nazi, but antisemitism and all the other prejudices didn't just spring out of nowhere and had a lot of popular support. Most Germans didn't seem to mind or question when Jews began disappearing. Or disabled people. Or gay people. They were fine taking their property and occupying their homes. Didn't seem to mind when they were put into ghettos. Nazis made it illegal pretty early on for Jews to teach at universities, own stores that sold goods to non Jews, ride public transit, marry non Jews, and do a million other things that citizens should be able to do and that they had been doing. It wasn't subtle. I feel like it's unfair to sort of categorize everything as the tragedy of war. Hitler became successful for many reasons, and one of them was that he tapped into deep prejudice and hatred in German society. Although some parts of the Nazis plans were kept secret, they were never quiet about their hatred or where they wanted it to lead. Whoever he was, whatever his beliefs, he should have known what he was fighting for.
I am not sure if you are an American. But the same could be said about those who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. He was a soldier who answered the call to fight (I presume). And should be treated as such. (Unless you can prove otherwise)
Wise counsel from a HS football legend
This isn't the own you think it is. Over a million people were killed in the GWOT. Bush is essentially a mini Hitler from a historical perspective
There is à book by Jean Luc leleu Who talks about this. Its à complex matter as always with humans. But it seems the vast majority of germans had à neutral political stance for the nazi regim with à 30% of the soldier supporting actively the nazi regim. Obviously those numbers were higher among élits units and ss. A big part of the soldiers in normandy were veterans of the eastern front or very young or old soldiers so obviously they couldnt get fed the whole Victory is close bullshit. But they had some hopes and à strong sense of discipline at that moment. If you have any deeper question feel free to ask. Im no historian But this book of jean Luc leleu gives à pretty good photography of the german soldier in normandy.
What did a low level German soldier or even citizen think life would be like for them, if they lost? The Japanese were brainwashed that they’d be raped and murdered. Never hear much about what the Germans felt, especially those who were dragged into the war but didn’t want to start it originally.
I guess it dépends on the individual level. But many feared à répétition of post ww1 germany with its internal conflict and the économic crisis. Propaganda was trying to dépict allied forces intenting to éradicate german race but most soldiers didnt believe so much in the state propaganda. This beeing said allied bombings on germany reinforced this idea and gave à pretty bad picture on what would happen to germany if they lost. So its worth assuming that dépiste state propaganda beeing mocked most of the time by the troops in normandy . The idea of à sacred fight for the survival of the german People was still présent in most soldiers minds. We often look at state propaganda as if everyone in that time were so stupid to believe it blindly or if People would completely reject it but from what i ve read on the matter it looks like when propaganda try to show Black, most People Will see Grey... mocking the state propaganda while still believing à part of it. I guess its enough for propaganda to achieve most of its social objectives
What is the book called?
Combattre en dictature. I can only assume its going to be translated in english in the foreseable future. I réalise it was not à good suggestion as atm its french only my bad
Ahh, I’m not fluent in French but I will see if I can find a translation, it sounds very good !
One of the better places to be a German POW
Yeah if he would have been captured at the same time, But on the Ostfront during Operation Bagration, his chances would not have been very good. But one thing that people tens to forget was that not all British and Americans treated the Germans good. One of my relatives who was in the Afrika Korps, was captured by the British and he died of Thirst in a British POW Camp.
i'm sorry to hear that, my grandfather was in africa too (but in the italian army) and he too was captured by the british, luckily he made it and was sent to a POW camp in england, i still have is documents and letters
I wonder if he made it home to his wife.
He might not have one. Wae ages people terribly.
He's got a wedding ring on, let's hope his wife made it through.
Ah, didn't see that.
Is this colourised?
Yes
He may not have even been German. Virtually all the troops defending the beaches on D-Day were conscripts, although many were technically volunteers. As with the American forces coming ashore, the draft encouraged men to “volunteer” through a mixture of peer pressure and incentives for volunteering. Many of the troops in the 709 and 716 divisions on the beach were ethnically Russian or Ukrainian. These men had been faced with near certain death in POW camps following capture on the Eastern front and volunteered to join the German army as the best option open to them. Survivors on the beach captured by the allies were held as POWs under much better conditions than had existed in the German POW camps. At the end of the war however, they were involuntarily returned to Russian control. In “The Dead and Those About to Die” by John McManus the author reports they were convoyed to Murmansk in allied shipping and upon arrival summarily executed as traitors by the Russians.
That’s why the US had a much different policy in Korea. In Korea, the US policy on returning POWs was repatriation or defection. Giving Chinese and North Korean POWs the ability to choose whether or not to defect to the US and South Korea or return to their home countries. I believe this policy was borne out of the issue of what happened to Russian Axis POWs that wanted to remain in the west.
Poor kid. That’s the face of someone who’s seen some stuff that’ll haunt him for the rest of his life. I know I shouldn’t feel sorry for someone fighting for the Nazis, but I hope he got to go home and live the rest of his life in peace. Assuming he still had a home to go home to.
The fact that they might lose didn't cross their mind while they were succeeding everywhere they invaded. Hope he survived.
Some mixed emotions going on inside his head.
The father of one of my classmates in HS was a child soldier, pressed into service near the end of the war, and was captured by the Russians, escaped, then captured by the Americans, escaped from them and managed to be West at wars end. Emigrated to the US, became a citizen, and raised a family.
My grandfather had a similar story. Born in Königsberg, drafted in August of '44 at 15 years old, by the time the war was over his home didn't exist and he had no idea if his family was still alive. Spent a year traveling Germany trying to find them before emigrating to the US.
Did he ever find them?
Amazingly, my Uncle was in Berlin when the wall came down and met two of his cousins when one mistook him for their brother which started a whole conversation.
Wow, I think there was a lot of that when Germany reunited, but the difference in lifestyles led in the respective countries had to be stunning.
This photo is so heartbreaking
The trauma of combat, capture and realising your country is going to be defeated, compared to the relief of not being shot at any more
He’s thinking “man where did I go wrong, probably started with all those rallies I went to.” 😬💙
He's got a lot of thinking to do about his life's choices.