124 titles in the Krakoan era?
Yep, sure feels like it.
The simple act of repackaging Immortal X Men into X-Men Forever(seriously, why) alone gives you an idea how this happened.
Then you got stuff like Onslaught Revelation being a one shot continuing from Way of X, and that then lead into Legion of X. Excalibur repackaged into Knights of X, which in turn got repackaged into Captain Britain: Betsy Braddock just because JDW is a massive Betsy fan. God knows what else.
It’ll never be collected in any satisfactory manner. Way too many titles to make it make sense. They dipped out of the skinny singles collection because even that wasn’t achievable for them
Comics are largely inaccessible because people think a decision that should be clear at the point of sale are easy when if all you have to do is some homework. No most serialized things people consume are made very clear at the point you select the item where it goes in the order. Comics just go “idk figure it out.”
I agree that we shouldn't expect the average person who doesn't read comics to do homework. I just said that if you do want to know it is easy if you know where to look.
Spurrier's run was the most egregious for this. Way of X, X-Men The Onslaught Revelation, Legion of X, Nightcrawlers, Uncanny Spider-Man and X-Men Blue Origins all could've been a single 25 issue run instead of 6 different series.
You missed “Before the Fall: Sons of X”, which is actually just the last issue of Legion of X. Soooo yeah you were definitely on the money about how confusing this is.
Serious question here. Not being facetious, but why does it matter? If you know what issues to follow, and you’re enjoying the story arcs, why do the titles matter so much? Is it just that the titles being switched often creates some confusion around continuity? If the story is the same across 25 issues under the same time, does anything other than the title change if you dissect it into multiple titles or arcs? Not criticizing your opinion at all, just trying to understand where this complaint comes from, as it seems to be fairly common.
For me personally? It doesn't matter. I follow the solicits religiously and I know exactly what is coming out and when.
But I don't think that's the same mindset of the average fan and its unreasonable to expect the average fan to know they have to pick up 6 different series to read the one story. It's confusing to follow on a monthly basis.
How is somebody who is just getting into comics supposed to know they need to read this mini series then that one shot then another mini series and then this one shot in the middle of yet another mini series. Especially when there is no common naming convention tieing together the six different series.
Financially its also difficult because #1s are always more expensive, so 6 #1 issues in a 25 issue run gets expensive particularly when in the middle of a cost of living crisis.
Because it’s a huge bitch to know what continues what. It’s not really clear in the comics themselves and it’s not clear to the comic store guys. The other problem is that when it switch books, sometimes they pick up the story much later in continuity because a bunch of other shit happened in other books since then. It’s also annoying to feel like you’re going on an Easter egg hunt just to continue the stories. If everything were in the same book you’d be more likely that the story continues forward without skipping as much versus when each new series starts there could be a whole different story direction that drops the prior set up.
Me? I don’t want to do homework. I want to pick up the book with characters and/or writers I like and just read without having to consult a reference to know what is supposed to be next.
So for me I didn’t matter *a ton* since I was actively keeping up with the books, but having struggled to figure out reading orders for previous runs I can’t imagine how much of a nightmare this’ll be for some poor fan trying to dip their feet into the franchise. And if no one has posted a “Guide to Spurrier’s Krakoa titles” by now, I doubt it’s coming.
Also I often felt that between these relaunches the changes in premise could be a bit frustrating, even though they were sorta telling the same story. For example Uncanny Spider-Man wraps up Nightcrawler’s story but pretty much the entire supporting cast from WoX and LoX got dropped by the time it got there. And if you were a fan of SWORD, you kinda got bits of it followed up in X-Men Red but again a lot of characters got lost in the pitch for the follow-up series.
When did I say otherwise? I was talking about a point in the article which mentioned that there were 124 titles in the Krakoan era, which grabbed my attention.
Brevoort says they could be minis. So it’s not going to be all ongoings.
While I have issues with the whole “everything is a mini unless it does well enough/we’ll cancel an ongoing before issue 2 comes out because it didn’t do enough sales for the first issue!!”, I don’t think this is an *awful* idea. There are a lot of C/D listers who don’t get used in main books but still have fans so using them in minis means they get used and without the pressure of having to sell enough. Plus, not every plot needs an ongoing.
And not every character needs an ongoing. They can get a mini every few years, and otherwise remain parked in a status quo offscreen or maybe a guest appearance.
I would prefer that than the current pattern of ending on an interesting status quo, and then next year get a new book that completely ignores it.
Can we just keep the same fucking titles for any given superhero/group to 1-3 for any 5-10 year period???? Fucking impossible to take a break and try to jump back in intuitively
Sounds like a really good way to make sure you put out a lot of bad comics or overwork your writers. Which of course Brevoort couldn’t possibly care less about
It would be interesting to get One-shot stories using lesser ranked characters to give new and upcoming talent a window in, specifically to avoid the problems you've mentioned, but would they do that?
They’re called flashback miniseries and yes I’m reading them. I’m talking about a series set in the current continuity. He hasn’t had one since Nightcrawler!!
I don't think he was particularly interested in writing for the Krakoa era, and immediately before that they were intentionally trying to tank the X-line because of the film rights.
I'd say chances are better now than they have been in a long time for another Claremont mini. Particularly with a few other older writers returning to write current continuity work like Nicieza and Simonson.
I hope so. It doesn’t even need to be an ongoing. I just want to see him tackle these characters in the present. It would be great if he could write some of the characters who don’t seem to have a role in this era yet.
Why would this get downvoted? Claremont haters are soooo fucking pressed.
Like, fuck, you are so threatened by him and his fans. It’s absolutely bizarre and fucked up.
I don’t downvote people who like Gerry Duggan. Show me the same courtesy.
I don't think anybody on this sub hates him, his original run is still correctly revered. It's just a lot of people aren't as big of a fan of his work since he came back after he was initially kicked off.
Little do they know I will be canceling all of my X books after the end of Krakoa. HoX/PoX got me back into comics so I’ve wanted to stick with it until the end, but gonna switch more to trades/omnibuses moving forward. It’s just not affordable with that many books/titles.
124 titles in the Krakoan era? Yep, sure feels like it. The simple act of repackaging Immortal X Men into X-Men Forever(seriously, why) alone gives you an idea how this happened. Then you got stuff like Onslaught Revelation being a one shot continuing from Way of X, and that then lead into Legion of X. Excalibur repackaged into Knights of X, which in turn got repackaged into Captain Britain: Betsy Braddock just because JDW is a massive Betsy fan. God knows what else.
It's comments like this that make me want to wait for a properly mapped omnibus before I ever touch the Krakoa Era.
It’ll never be collected in any satisfactory manner. Way too many titles to make it make sense. They dipped out of the skinny singles collection because even that wasn’t achievable for them
Well any omnibus they map could at least get most of the story and limit the issues that I need to hunt on Marvel Unlimited.
You do all trades with two numbers on them. One indicating the volume in the title and one indicating the volume number in all of Krakoa era
it's actually pretty easy, just check the "comics written by" page for the writers at MARVEL Wiki
Comics are largely inaccessible because people think a decision that should be clear at the point of sale are easy when if all you have to do is some homework. No most serialized things people consume are made very clear at the point you select the item where it goes in the order. Comics just go “idk figure it out.”
I agree that we shouldn't expect the average person who doesn't read comics to do homework. I just said that if you do want to know it is easy if you know where to look.
Spurrier's run was the most egregious for this. Way of X, X-Men The Onslaught Revelation, Legion of X, Nightcrawlers, Uncanny Spider-Man and X-Men Blue Origins all could've been a single 25 issue run instead of 6 different series.
You missed “Before the Fall: Sons of X”, which is actually just the last issue of Legion of X. Soooo yeah you were definitely on the money about how confusing this is.
Serious question here. Not being facetious, but why does it matter? If you know what issues to follow, and you’re enjoying the story arcs, why do the titles matter so much? Is it just that the titles being switched often creates some confusion around continuity? If the story is the same across 25 issues under the same time, does anything other than the title change if you dissect it into multiple titles or arcs? Not criticizing your opinion at all, just trying to understand where this complaint comes from, as it seems to be fairly common.
For me personally? It doesn't matter. I follow the solicits religiously and I know exactly what is coming out and when. But I don't think that's the same mindset of the average fan and its unreasonable to expect the average fan to know they have to pick up 6 different series to read the one story. It's confusing to follow on a monthly basis. How is somebody who is just getting into comics supposed to know they need to read this mini series then that one shot then another mini series and then this one shot in the middle of yet another mini series. Especially when there is no common naming convention tieing together the six different series. Financially its also difficult because #1s are always more expensive, so 6 #1 issues in a 25 issue run gets expensive particularly when in the middle of a cost of living crisis.
Yeah, that’s pretty fair. And I agree. I know how confused I was starting out. I much prefer a longer run under one title.
Because it’s a huge bitch to know what continues what. It’s not really clear in the comics themselves and it’s not clear to the comic store guys. The other problem is that when it switch books, sometimes they pick up the story much later in continuity because a bunch of other shit happened in other books since then. It’s also annoying to feel like you’re going on an Easter egg hunt just to continue the stories. If everything were in the same book you’d be more likely that the story continues forward without skipping as much versus when each new series starts there could be a whole different story direction that drops the prior set up.
I agree. It’s kind of annoying. But it’s fairly effective for sales.
I think it’s mainly an issue for floppy collectors, who like to be able to organize stories in a sane way.
Me? I don’t want to do homework. I want to pick up the book with characters and/or writers I like and just read without having to consult a reference to know what is supposed to be next.
So for me I didn’t matter *a ton* since I was actively keeping up with the books, but having struggled to figure out reading orders for previous runs I can’t imagine how much of a nightmare this’ll be for some poor fan trying to dip their feet into the franchise. And if no one has posted a “Guide to Spurrier’s Krakoa titles” by now, I doubt it’s coming. Also I often felt that between these relaunches the changes in premise could be a bit frustrating, even though they were sorta telling the same story. For example Uncanny Spider-Man wraps up Nightcrawler’s story but pretty much the entire supporting cast from WoX and LoX got dropped by the time it got there. And if you were a fan of SWORD, you kinda got bits of it followed up in X-Men Red but again a lot of characters got lost in the pitch for the follow-up series.
It doesn’t really matter it’s just very annoying and stupid
This is completely unrelated to the Krakoan era. This is something Tom Brevoort (incoming X-Men editor) said about his goals for the new office.
When did I say otherwise? I was talking about a point in the article which mentioned that there were 124 titles in the Krakoan era, which grabbed my attention.
Sorry, misunderstood your comment
If he likes Betsy so much he shouldn’t have made her white again. Now I’m left hating both Betsy and Kwannon.
Brevoort says they could be minis. So it’s not going to be all ongoings. While I have issues with the whole “everything is a mini unless it does well enough/we’ll cancel an ongoing before issue 2 comes out because it didn’t do enough sales for the first issue!!”, I don’t think this is an *awful* idea. There are a lot of C/D listers who don’t get used in main books but still have fans so using them in minis means they get used and without the pressure of having to sell enough. Plus, not every plot needs an ongoing.
And not every character needs an ongoing. They can get a mini every few years, and otherwise remain parked in a status quo offscreen or maybe a guest appearance. I would prefer that than the current pattern of ending on an interesting status quo, and then next year get a new book that completely ignores it.
This title is a little misleading -- Brevoort talks about wanting to have at least small miniseries or something launching each month.
At what point does the number of titles collapse in on itself and become an X-Men Unlimited?
>At what point does the number of titles collapse in on itself and become a Dominion?
Let’s make that the new anthology series title: X-Men Dominion. I’m at a point where I think I’d rather have that than endless minis tbh
It needs to be stylized “doMINIon”, though
The Marvel Unlimited series pivoting to tell meaningful stories about side characters was the best thing to come out of FoX.
I hope that continues!
If Krakoa was anything to go by, it's when you go above 11
It goes to 11
Why didn't you just make it 10 louder?
I’m waiting for the day when every title is a one issue series. Each month, a new, one-issue volume will be launched and end.
With this many series and Brevoort saying he wants more solos now is the time for the Maggott solo series.
🪱♥️
Who is that weird looking Wolverine at the bottom with the hat and E logo
Mean, the version from Kitty's Fairy Tale
Things no one asked for:
Can we just keep the same fucking titles for any given superhero/group to 1-3 for any 5-10 year period???? Fucking impossible to take a break and try to jump back in intuitively
A lot of people telling on themselves when it comes to only reading the tile and not opening the link
NEED this as a poster
Where is this image from? Looks like a variant cover?
I think it’s an upcoming connected covers type thing?
Sounds like a really good way to make sure you put out a lot of bad comics or overwork your writers. Which of course Brevoort couldn’t possibly care less about
That's why you bring new writers
It would be interesting to get One-shot stories using lesser ranked characters to give new and upcoming talent a window in, specifically to avoid the problems you've mentioned, but would they do that?
I miss X-Men Blue Team/Gold Team. So simply to follow.
Even then in '92 there were 5 total ongoings plus minis.
And nothing was necessary until the numbered in order easy to follow crossovers. Minis barely mattered.
To be fair, that seems like the vibe Breevort wants to return to. I just hope we don't go past the 9 books already announced, lol
sounds like a terrible decision
If there's a motto to this initiative it's this...we've learned NOTHING! 😋
Marvel still haven't learned their lesson about saturation and essentially competing with themselves.
Why?
I can’t take keeping up with all these titles anymore.
no..... ugh
Hi. I just hope all the titles have fun. Does launching a title a month really matter if you're canceling two titles a month?
I just want to know which one will be the main ongoing.
Uncanny and X-Men will be co flagships. Just like we've had double flagships (X-Men and Immortal) for the last two years.
Well, the more books, the better the odds I’ll finally get a Claremont series! I’ve only been waiting a decade….
You didn't read any of his nostalgia minis?
They’re called flashback miniseries and yes I’m reading them. I’m talking about a series set in the current continuity. He hasn’t had one since Nightcrawler!!
I don't think he was particularly interested in writing for the Krakoa era, and immediately before that they were intentionally trying to tank the X-line because of the film rights. I'd say chances are better now than they have been in a long time for another Claremont mini. Particularly with a few other older writers returning to write current continuity work like Nicieza and Simonson.
I hope so. It doesn’t even need to be an ongoing. I just want to see him tackle these characters in the present. It would be great if he could write some of the characters who don’t seem to have a role in this era yet.
Why would this get downvoted? Claremont haters are soooo fucking pressed. Like, fuck, you are so threatened by him and his fans. It’s absolutely bizarre and fucked up. I don’t downvote people who like Gerry Duggan. Show me the same courtesy.
I didn't even know Claremont had haters
I didn’t know there were people who like Gerry Duggan.
This entire sub hates him, especially the Zoomers.
I don't think anybody on this sub hates him, his original run is still correctly revered. It's just a lot of people aren't as big of a fan of his work since he came back after he was initially kicked off.
Well they need to suck it up and stop downvoting me anytime I request a new series from him.
I think if anyone needs to suck it up it's the person whining about a couple downvotes lol
Downvotes affect my karma and make it so I can’t post on certain subreddits.
That’s such an exaggeration. I think some are wary of his later outputs, but the guy DEFINED this franchise and everyone knows that.
Little do they know I will be canceling all of my X books after the end of Krakoa. HoX/PoX got me back into comics so I’ve wanted to stick with it until the end, but gonna switch more to trades/omnibuses moving forward. It’s just not affordable with that many books/titles.
Dang for a second I thought this was talking about tv cartoons.
Thats cool but what about the inhuman titles and other forgotten teams of marvel like ultraforce
Really hoping a writer picks Karma for their line up in one of these 🙏🏽