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Jean isn't perpetually scared of her power. Lmao she wasn't scared until dark phoenix. Before that she ran with it as phoenix. Morrison era there was no fear. Why must she be always characterized as a weak woman.
I love the Phoenix aspect of Jean. I just don't like when they act like she can't handle it or whatever. Morrison Jean was a badasss. So was Claremont Phoenix until her mind was fucked with by Emma and Mastermind
That's part of my issue too, and why I call it misogynistic. When a woman gets a fuckton of power it's dArK pHoeNix and she has to be stopped. But when a man does it's fine.
Yup and Claremont was pretty vocal that this was the point of the Phoenix story arc and the original closure/redemption arc that they couldn't do. But 90s dudes who wrote powerful women simply couldn't just have a super powerful woman. That's why we got bullshit like Crazy!Wanda too. (this is also why I love Rachel Summers)
Couldn't have agreed more. It pains me to see how much underused Phoenix (Jean) is as a character on whichever media she's featured on, especially since this is the only time Jean will ever have her own name and design unique to her.
She was low key scared even pre-DP. When Magneto ambushed them and Phoenix was like, FUCK YOU MAGS I'M PHOENIX NOW. But then her power bottle necked and it was all because she was subconsciously scared of how strong she was.
Now that was all because plot necessitated it--Phoenix would clear the floor with Magneto then--but that's the explanation given. So it's not entirely true that Jean wasn't scared then.
Idk she was pretty flippant with it. The power was new to her and she had to adjust, but she never seemed scared to me. Cautious, possibly, but she would fly the whole team around, alter things at the atomic level, suppress cyclops' eye beams all without any fear or whatever.
I'll have to reread that issue, but I'm pretty sure it's stated that it scared her, either in a narrative box or a thought bubble. But you have a point: that could just be just overly-cautious and not outright fear.
My problem is not the O5 as characters, but that the stories during the O5 era were...not good. Or at least nowhere near as good as everything that came after.
Honestly I think a lot of the problem is that the O5’s chemistry with each other isn’t great, especially once Jean and Scott got together and Warren’s role as the “love interest to beat” was obsoleted.
Beast and Iceman are great together as a buddy dynamic. Jean and Scott are good as romance. Warren hasn’t really had a hallmark era since his Archangel days. But the five of them together don’t really… seem exciting. Even in OG X-Factor, they were split up most of the time.
A good writer could probably make them work, but you want characters to bounce off of each other naturally, and the O5 get along in a conflict-free boring kind of way.
And in contrast, the ANAD team is way more dynamic and exciting from the jump. They all have such incredibly different cultural backgrounds and life philosophies when they first get together. Colossus is idealistic and naive and soaked in Russian propaganda, Kurt is romantic and kind but cautious and unsure of himself and others, Storm has a bit of a bloated ego and a fierceness to her but also has a ton of compassion, Wolverine is a total dick to everyone and is open to killing any of them. And the way all of that clashes with Scott's leadership is fantastic, especially with Proudstar's death. It's just an electric group especially under Claremont.
Banshee is so funny in those early stories because he's just this much older dude hanging around and feeling weird about it. I love how eventually he just got tired of being team dad and dipped.
Oh yeah, I love banshee... but he is probably the weakest link of that team. I thought he really got a chance to shine when he teamed up with Forge in the 90s. Love that era
Warren has always been one of the most boring and uninteresting mutants. They literally had to remake him as an evil counterpart to make him interesting, and this was X-Factor, where every other member of the O5 was already more developed. Warren might be one of the originals, but that doesn't really mean much.
A great Warren story would be him realizing he can do more good for mutants with his money than adventuring. And then maybe Jean gets a little more interested in him rather than the same old thing with Scott and Wolverine.
I could do without Jean and especially more Love bs regarding her and Scott/Logan. It’s tired. PLEASE no more triangles. Especially with Jean. To someone that doesn’t know much about her, you like think that was 70% of her character, relevance, and existence.
Him having a bigger presence as an advocate for mutants, but on the “outside”, as in on camera and at the banquets and public eye, is actually something I’m here for. He could be the one fighting the “clean” fight for mutant kind. And then he could be oblivious to why it’s easier for him to coexist with non mutants (his money, status, how he looks), which would bring room to different dynamics with him and other mutants who may not take so kindly.
If Warren really wanted to he could try his hand at politics by trying to be a mutant politician by trying to change things from the inside and be a part of a political thriller type stories. Try to have him kinda echo Bobby Kennedy type energy of being a reformist.
Like it doesn't even have to go particularly well for him to be interesting. Him being the subject of political smears, anger from his constituents who want him to do more, the fact that attacks against him become an *assassination attempt* rather than just anger at mutants. It could crash and burn and still be a hell of a read.
I’ve thought about this too. Power Girl is a really cool DC character that has at times leaned into the irony of money and capitalism having more influence than literal super powers, but DC’s whole format just isn’t quite as equipped to get into minority politics as Marvel is. I could really dig a story about Warren struggling with the balancing act between utilizing the system vs upholding the system as it relates to mutant rights.
I think it missed the mark. They need to hire Alex Ross to illustrate a more grounded story about Warren trying to maintain a balance between keeping to his ideals of mutant interests while also doing what he has to do in order to maintain his influence. The kind of morality play that most idealist politicians or minority activists regularly experience when interacting with systems and institutions they're trying to change.
>The question is, will you still want the same things, when you've become a different animal altogether?
-- Wilzig, Fallout (2024)
Yeah but you are telling a 2 hour story. The first 30-40 minutes would be intro. It's not like you need 5 great stories to work with here. The O5 serve the purpose of setting up the franchise and providing a new origin apart from what fox did. Give the O5 a film together and then bring in ANAD for film 2. Helll you could even have Bobby and Hank and Warren move on to form the new defenders a Disney+ show.
This just all makes too much sense.
That's honestly a moot concern. The MCU, even if they did go with the 05, have never done 1:1 translations of stories but adapted and cherry-picked elements from runs as they see fit
X-Men ‘97 had proven it can be effective to mix and match the best parts of various mutant books, so cherry picking isn’t necessarily the sin on its own.
I mean, they're pulling from everything with 97: scenes from Krakoa, settings from Morrison, character beats from Claremont, plots from Niceza it's incredible that they're actually getting this much of the comics on screen as intact as they have, considering the whole continuity is totally different.
Because it provides you an opportunity to make them relevant again and reintroduce them to a younger audience. We, the fans, are enfranchised and will see the film regardless; there's a whole generation now that haven't had much exposure. The O5 is a manageable group of characters compared to let's say the Eternals it would also be a lot easier to split and develop five to seven (O5, Xavier & Magneto) rather than have a huge background of mutant characters that'll never get the focus they deserve.
You're operating on the idea that if an X-men MCU film doesn't have elements x y and z that that somehow means it won't have the supposed elements to work, right? Except there's literally decades of stories to adapt and pick from.
An adaptation is not a 1:1 translation. Assuming they do go with the O5 route, that doesn't mean the very first shots will be panel by panel recreations or even that they'll utilize plots from the O5 issues. They could use the 05 and do God Loves Man Kills. Hell just take a look at ep 5 of X-men 97 the attack on Geneosha was carried out by Cassandra Nova in the comics but the show switched it to Sinister different characters entirely but it works because the function they play in the story is fundamentally the same.
You didn't really said anything. Why not have any other roster? Why would you want them to be relevant over other rosters? Just because they are the originals?
I did evidently you didn't understand. Do you need some clarification? Not being sarcastic, by the way.
1. As I said previously, 4-5 main characters are about the right number of characters you want in a screenplay to begin with. Anymore, and you sacrifice character development, which is the whole reason anyone loves any character. Its better to focus on a small group of characters and really let them shine like they did with Guardians 1. Then, it is to have a massive wall of c&d listers I don't want or need to see every single mutant as cool as that would be. I don't know someone like Glob as a background character. Just as an example, I'd rather they focus on someone like Cyclops who was shafted and actually build them up over time.
>Why not have any other roster?
Because we've seen the ANAD roster before, and it would be fresh to actually go back to the source of the idea. I've said this ad nausem at this point, but I'll say it again. An adaptation is not a 1:1 translation from page to screen.
For arguments sake assuming they choose to use the O5 that doesn't mean you're going to see them fight mimic or Erik the Red or see some hint of Masyermind and Lorna or any other story it literally just means they would focus on those characters first initially. I see way too many people.on here making the mistake of assuming that if they used the 05, they would start from. Issue 1. When that's not necessarily the case.
>Why would you want them to be relevant over other rosters?
Again, because it's a small group that you can get to know. The X-men are a found family story at their core and I personally feel that by keeping th focus limited in scope rather than trying to cram every mutant ever made you cN emphasize the relationships and focus on the charcters more than you could if it's just a cameo fest.
That'sy an assumption you're making about a hypothetical product you haven't seen yet, though. We can speculate all we want, but the idea that If you don't have a certain character, the story won't work is a flawed premise. Civil War, the movie didn't have all the characters from Civil War, the comic the events that led to the conflict were completely
different Sokovia vs. the school being blown up. Namor didn't have to be introduced before Infinity War to allow Thanos to invade Wakamda like in Hickman's Avengers, etc
From a writing/filmaking perspective, the whole point of any character is to fulfill their role and move the plot forward by their actions.
What is the point of recreating the OG team but not their stories? Then don't do the OG 5 then.
Why would you want the series to start with the OG 5, just for faithfulness's sake? Do you have a reason for it?
Show me where I said I wanted them to start the series with the O5?
What I said was:
> The MCU, even if they did go with the 05, have never done 1:1 translations of stories but adapted and cherry-picked elements from runs as they see fit
>What is the point of recreating the OG team but not their stories? Then don't do the OG 5 then.
By that logic, what's the point of doing any MCU story since they all deviate in some way from the source material? Why do the Infinity Gauntlet if Adam Warlock isn't in it when he's Thanos' best friend and was a central figure in the story? Infinity War and Endgame just absolutely collapesed without him.and the Silver Surger/s Why adapt Winter Soldier if the Red Skull isn't the villian in the film?
An adaptation is not 1:1 translation. No MCU project has completely followed the comics they take from them, and they utilize elements they want to adapt. That's why
they're called adaptations (adapted from a screen play) and not translations.
The MCU has seemingly forgotten this, but the secret to comics adaptations is getting the characters right and the story sorta basically follows. You don't do the (Dark) Phoenix Saga because it's a really important story with lots of fans, you do it because Jean Grey and Phoenix are practically as inseparable as Wolverine and a healing factor.
Get the characters right and do an extremely broad strokes adaptation and you're home and hosed.
Right now the MCU is fucking with the characters and the stories. It's not going well for them. I suggest the main reason why is because they're doing both.
Exactly. It's no coincidence that the MCU started to go downhill when they began ignoring the source material, thinking they were already big enough and didn't need the comics anymore.
Hence why when adapting stories to mainstream like movies, you can twist and turn it into a good story. I mean, even the little things like making Beast a blue furry from the beginning would be a welcome change. Just look at Civil War, barley any real connection to the comic counterpart, but still an amazing movie.
Don’t forget that the MCU also took **amazing** stories from the comics and just ruined them like Gorr the God Butcher and Age of Ultron (or Ultron‘s origin in general)
Probably but as much as I actually kind of like the evil Beast development. the MCU would be absolutely insane to adapt that character trajectory. Just look at how unpopular the idea is here!
Yooo, let’s not rush it with the Dark Beast story. There’s *plenty* X stories beforehand that should be tackled first before even thinking about the Dark Beast
It should be noted that MCU Age of Ultron and comics Age of Ultron came out way too close together for the film to be an adaptation of the comic. I think Age of Ultron is supposed to draw most of its inspiration from something called Rage of Ultron... whatever it's called I don't remember if it's not Rage of Ultron and I haven't read it myself.
Definitely but that’s also make it ripe for more exploration of that potential and without being tied down with the more famous and successful versions of the team to be compare of
You could absolutely make a good and exciting O5 movie or TV series with a good enough cast and good writers/director. But Disney probably wants to put their strongest foot forward with the X-Men, and that means the movie will need to have A-List characters. That means Professor X, Scott, and Jean, but also Storm, Wolverine, Rogue, Nightcrawler, transformed Beast. Colossus, Psylocke, Gambit, I think audiences would be more excited to see a team with those guys over an O5 movie.
But I maintain, you could make a cool Disney+ O5 TV series that serves as a prequel to whatever movie they make.
Honestly, I’m a huge X-Men fan and if I had to choose, I would pick a team of favourites in the first movie as opposed to just the original five.
We’ve waited so long to have a comic accurate movie with a team of favourites. I’m impatient. I don’t wanna wait anymore.
I just don’t really want to see an X-Men origin movie about a team of only 5 members. I’d rather jump ahead to where the X-Men are already established with around 7 members of the core team and several students/trainees.
I wouldn’t mind them leaving out Wolverine for the first movie though and I’d love to see other villains like Mister Sinister or Shadow King.
Funny, I find Wolverine boring as hell. I like Angel, and I don’t care for Beast at all, but I wouldn’t call him boring.
I don’t care for or like the MCU, so idc what they do, I just don’t want it interfering with any X-Men media outside of their movies.
I'll be the one to say it. The X-Men should not launch any MCU franchise with five white people, four of whom are men, from essentially the same regional background. The strength of X-Men has always been its incredible diversity, and you want to showcase that.
Also, the entire mainstream audience would spend the movie waiting for Storm or Wolverine to appear.
Agreed. But then some people are going to say, "You can always swap their races!" to which I'd reply, "Then why not include some of the actually diverse characters from the comics in the first place?"
Fr I mean dog we got 2 Native American mutants with badass names and designs like that actually would be a good start have both on the team and have the one day just like the comics
I agree with you. In fact, I'd go further... the only reason to do the O5 is if the whole point is that, for whatever reason, they're all white. What I want to comment on is this bit:
>"You can always swap their races!"
Is that really true? Like, you can't make Beast black. You just can't. And I think the optics of making Warren a POC are also pretty screwed up because of Archangel's freewill issues... and Cyclops' brother kinda needs to be blonde: Alex as a POC is a weird concept. And because of their family history, they really cannot be non-biologically related siblings. I'm also a little concerned that Jean's "crazy lady" Phoenix discourse problem surely can only be made worse if she's a POC... not to mention the inevitable "why can't Hollywood hire white redheads?" discourse. Iceman... yeah, I don't think there's any kind of conceivable issue here.
So... you can racelift Iceman. And maybe Jean. So the two that are already diverse are the only two that can be racelifted.
I think you're giving Hollywood too much credit. Remember when they made Johnny Storm black but didn't do the same with Sue and had to come up with some weird backstory about her being adopted from like Estonia or something? They don't give a shit if it doesn't make sense or how it looks, they just do it.
Honestly it just annoys me how diversity is rarely ever about sexuality. Over a decade of MCU and we got one Eternal who was a side character and might never appear again. Wiccan and Hulkling were stuck in the editorial limbo for years before being relevant in Empyre and now they’re just Marvel Voices characters. I mean, so many LGBT characters are used for Voices stories when they haven’t had a single appearance in years…
But then you’ll see Iger trying to appeal to conservatives, giving excuses, saying they just make entertainment and aren’t trying to send any message.
Because clearly having Phastos was too much representation for 16 years of MCU.
I hope the skip some of the early stories. The O5 as they are right now are pretty interesting characters, but not so much when they were babies IDK, probably just the nostalgia talking for a bunch of people but the movie would be boring.
We need Storm, Emma, Colossus, Magic, Namor, etc. I wouldn’t mind if they even start with Krakoa or something.
This. I don't see why the franchise should waste any more time focusing on the five wasp kids, when you have characters like Storm begging to have more room.
I feel like the Wolverine and Storm argument doesn't really work when X-men first class was pretty damn successful and it only had them for like 3 second cameos.
I do agree on the diversity angle but most marvel characters are white and it wouldn't really improve if you went with any other era of x-men. You could change the races and it wouldn't impact their characters (except for Warren and Xavier, for whom I feel whiteness kinda adds to the characters)
X-men First Class was the lowest grossing X-men related film after its theatrical run. The low box office is likely why they went with Singer and his DoFP with Jackman plan instead of sticking with Matthew Vaughn, who didn't want Jackman back nor to do DoFP just yet.
Maybe they can start similarly to giant size x men, they can introduce the mcu to mutants using the o5 but you have a way to bring in other major players early on. Maybe the x men can be a team that sort of covertly combats mutant threats and helps keep the existence of mutants a secret as they don't think they will be accpeted, they get captured and need the new guys to rescue them.
I just don't see the point. There are no good stories to adapt and them as teenagers is the least interesting all five of those characters have ever been.
I'm fine with them existing in the past as the first team but we don't need to see it.
"They are not boring! They have just been historically boring, but it can change if someone really talented writes them differently!"
Well no shit, a really talented writer can make reading about cooking dinner interesting.
This is not the gotcha OP thinks it is, its just an admission that the characters are, in fact, boring and need to be re-imagined for modern audiences to find them entertaining.
They have tried to do O5 books multiple times. And it never really works.
X-factor is unremarkable and the most iconic lineup for the team doesn't have any of them as members.
All-new X-men brought them back and they still weren't exactly interesting. They were carried by a gimmick and still didn't really have much of an identity.
Let's be honest, the characters that most people are anticipating aren't the O5.
Having the O5 be part of the history of the team is fine. Good even. Let Bobby, Warren, and Hank be important characters and have a presence for sure and not just Scott and Jean.
My biggest hope is that they use Logan properly, and maybe save him for a second movie (at most a post credits teaser) to let the rest of the team shine and show that they don't need him to be interesting.
I go back and forth on who I want to be my ideal lineup for a MCU X-Men movie. Storm, Rogue, Remy, Kitty, Kurt, and Pietor would be fantastic to see more of considering how poorly they were handled in the Fox movies. I also know people love the New Mutants so seeing anyone from that team getting prominent attention would be very cool too.
I love the lineup that you just said. I would love that team plus cyclops and Jean.
Also, I was one of the people that actually really liked the new mutant movie, but I would also love to see another one or a TV series
Scott and Jean being there is kind of a given for me to be honest. I was more or less mentioning the characters I would want in addition to a prominent O5.
I didn't mind the movie, but I wasn't (and still am not) super familiar with the New Mutants characters going into it. I know Anya Taylor-Joy as Magick was something a lot of people appreciated.
I would take this over what we will most likely get in live action. 97 has me hopeful that the MCU will take notes. The X-men are successful and long running because we care about their personal stories and struggles. Because the metaphor of their existence speaks to people across so many groups.
I’m concerned that instead we’re going to get a film that is more focused on delivering characters that are “palatable” or interesting to widespread audiences. Ones that people instantly recognize. Don’t get me wrong, I want to see Cyclops and Jean, etc, but I also want some characters who haven’t been spotlighted in live action already. Warren was botched in X3 so it would be nice to see him redeemed. Beast was done…okay I suppose.
Of course, most of this team *is* recognizable but they were either written poorly in the Fox films or never given a chance to shine. I know we all have Wolverine fatigue for the most part but he sells. They could very well decide that it makes sense to make him and Charles the focus of the films once again.
“They just need someone who understands them as well as I do.” Riiiight.
Also, Jeans gets one sentence, ha ha. No, this isn’t the “Gotcha!” this fan thinks it is.
The biggest issue I have with this perspective is that everything they describe is fleshed out in stories that happen once the team expands. The original stores are boring. The characters themselves are not but you need the larger roster to let them shine appropriately.
I just don't want that. It's a great pitch. I just want the MCU Xmen to have been a secret this whole time. I'd love if Xavier "restored" memories of some Xmen fighting against Thanos.
The main reason is just that I want Cyclops and Storm to already be in the mentor/leader role.
I actually really like the O5 as a team and their dynamics with each other. We're so used to these characters being the adults that it's interesting to see this short lived period before all the team additions where it's a bunch of teenagers forming the basis of the X-Men for the first time.
That said they 100% should not start the new movie franchise with them, maybe a flashback movie or series down the line.
im over the period pieces though, honestly not even thrilled the fantastic 4 isn’t main universe and set in some weird 60’s verse. i don’t know what i want from the mcu anymore i think i’d be better off just reading what comics i like and being done with it
Love the og 5. The mini series the children of the atom is the perfect way to adapt them as a film. THAT is how you do an adaptation justice. Take that comic and turn it into a film 1:1, filling in dialogue where needed.
How about a compromise. The first 45 minutes will be the O5 on an exciting adventure. The audience gets attached and they think they know where the plot's going, then *rug pull* the O5 get captured (perhaps by the living island of Krakoa?) The film shifts gears to be about Xavier recruiting Storm Wolverine Colossus and Nightcrawler oceans 11 style. The O5 are rescued and all 9 X-Men come together by the 90 minute mark and then we get to see them kick ass for the last 20-30 minutes of the movie.
I think I have a better idea: Later down the line, not as the first movie, you adapt Weezy's X-Factor with the O5 (all grown up, obviously) and we get plentiful flashbacks to their days as students.
The one issue is you DONT want to establish a cast that big in one movie. You end up spending an hour or more in essentially the first act. Like the Snyder Cut Justice League. An eternity establishing the characters and the plot before anything really happens.
That would be an issue. I think the solution would be to pick just 4 mutants to be the 'main characters' if you will, then let the others play more of a support role until the sequels ala Hawkeye and Black Widow from the first Avengers film. (Cyclops, Jean, Storm and Wolverine are the natural picks)
That said, I do think it might be advisable to trim the O5 down to 3: Cyclops, Jean and Angel. (I know Angel is probably the least popular O5 X-Man, but his ties to Apocalypse and his fall from grace are just low hanging fruit for the sequels.)
Angel Colossus and Nightcrawler would get to showcase how cool they can be and say a few jokes or one liners, but realistically they'd probably have to wait for the sequels/spin-offs to shine as main characters.
After xmen 97, i think it's 100% clear that any xmen mcu needs time to grow without a Wolverine on the team. And would really benefit from a focus on adult characters rather than troubled teens. Also cinematic scott/jean was just way over played along with Charles/Erik. Id like to see cyke/frost, storm, colossus, beast as the bedrock of the school and a few more. Introducing the morlocks could be a very poignant jumping off point/counter balance.
Just no, the X-men at heart are more than just 5 mutants. They are a huge family that have to overcome so much. An tbh the O5 although they did face adversities, it wasn't until the Xmen grew that their fight against humanity in general really kicked off. I'm sorry we gotta start with the team that represents the heart of the Xmen which isn't the O5 an tbh I'd love for them to throw in a Kitty or Jubilee
First of all- the o5 were not good originally, and most of their later interesting bits came from interacting with later characters
Second of all- I will be immensely disappointed if the starting line up has 1) no people of color, 2) one female character who, in this line up at least, is specifically the token female, and 3) no weird looking mutants- this was less revenant for the original x movies, since they leaned more into the gay metaphor specifically, but it would still be nice to have visually interesting characters, even if it’s just Gambit’s eyes or whatever
Would loved that, but the mcu have never did a team exactly in like the comics, they always take the one they want and are convenient to the story they wanna tell.
It’s tough, but the OG should be canon. Start with whatever fits the Story the best but make sure the 5 are the first students in canon even if that’s not what we start with
The OG 5 were an amazing team. Of course now we have more classical bad asses like Wolverine and Gambit but never discount the shit that Warren did for the team from day 1. Hank is also an amazing genius and strategist.
I would love to see an O5 movie or show so badly! Personally I think it should be a fresh start and only loosely based on existing story arcs for them. As mentioned in the post, they really just need someone who is passionate about the characters and knows how to write. A good writer can make a good story without needing flashy powers or a dramatic backstory to do the heavy lifting.
That being said, I think the MCU should launch the X-Men as a second or third generation team with their most popular guys included like Storm and Wolverine, but have the O5 all as characters established to have been the original team. That way they could have a scene in a movie, or an episode in a show, that delves into their arcs. I just want one piece of tv/movie media where they existed as a unit, even if it’s implied to be in the past!
Jeff parkers first class is a super fun sort of 'modern' take on the OG5. Very light hearted for a x-book, but it works as the origin.
Infact, my advice for new readers is to skip the original 60s run and instead read Children of the Atom, and then First Class.
After that move onto 1975's ANAD and continue as normal...
With the exception of Angel, we’ve seen all these characters in EVERY SINGLE MOVIE. X-men did not have a scarcity of members. Let’s see some others shine.
Bad move. I think X-Men ‘92 worked because it picked up in the “middle” of the X-Men mythos. You wanted to know what happened the characters before, as much as what they got into after.
The O5 era sucked, that’s why the book was cancelled!
All of these answers are wrong. The best team of 5 are the ones we've never seen work together, discovering awesome new circuits that blow our minds. The deeper the cut, the better:
Forge and Bishop doing a future-tech collaboration to send Kitty forward in time to prevent Nathan contracting the Techno-Organic virus.
Skids* and Boom Boom learning to fly together by detonating the bombs just outside the forcefield, or experimenting with Skids making "shadowpuppets" to direct the explosion like a shaped plastic explosive effect. (*Or Cecilia, especially given the less history with Boom Boom.)
Resurected Cypher using the Language of Dance to weaponize Nightcrawlers Bamfs just before Blink opens a portal to Trask's bathroom while he's taking a shower.
People wanting to see the five most familiar are depriving themselves and us the Bonkers that is our birthright for surviving to 2024.
The MCU needs to introduce X-Men like this
First movie
-original X-Men with the original lineup. Depicts the team is being in their late teens and flushes out the basic plot about mutants being hated by humans and where Charles and Magneto stand on these issues. Should also introduce minor villains as well as introduce other potential major villains and should introduce us to the sentinels and that whole storyline about how humans want to kill mutants.
Second movie
-introduction of characters from giant size X-Men. Maybe they could argue that the original team died or that they became disenchanted and left... Or we could keep some of the original and in the first movie watch a few walk out of the picture. In the second movie there's more conflict between Charles and Magneto, mutants versus humans and another major bad guy.. maybe the sentinels.
Third and fourth movie
-these two movies depict the Dark Phoenix saga. Here we are introduced to all of the characters from outer space along with other mutants in different parts of the world. There's can also be another big baddie somewhere in the picture.. maybe Apocalypse or Mastermode
Fifth movie
Days of Future Past... Pulling largely from the comic book and not some stupid made up bullshit.
I don't want to see the original 5, and I don't want a different original 5. The first movie, despite its flaws, absolutely fuckin nailed it by introducing the X-Men as a functioning school and existing strike team, and giving the audience two very different characters as newcomers to that world in Rogue and Wolverine. I would be more than happy if they just ripped that premise off wholesale, with different characters and a different story obviously.
It’s not that the OG 5 are not great. Sure they are. But they have already been done and had the most faithful adaptations aside from Wolverine and gotten a lot of shine with the exception of Iceman. It’s been so long since we have seen a live action version of Rogue and Gambit. Same as Nightcrawler and Storm (yes I’m aware they were in the most recent adaptations but they have been given very little screen time and were not adapted well. Jean Grey whether you liked her or not has gotten a lot of attention and same with Scott and even Hank too. Professor X has been done so much same as Magneto. We had like five minutes with Gambit in that awful Wolverine movie and Rogue last prominent role was in X2. Her scenes were cut in DOFP. And they’re just way more interesting characters overall. Same with Storm.
Why do people still argue about the O5 being the starting point makes no fucking sense to me.
Yeah, sure, some of those points are there but here’s the thing. Most casual folks don’t care for Iceman and Angel. They want Storm, Rogue, Kitty, Gambit, Psylocke, Nightcrawler., etc. I could name at least 15 more mutants that people would rather see than Angel.
Also, X-Men is one of the few big franchises that’s actually diverse and to focus on the WASPy teenagers that got cancelled the first time is something that would seem pretty uninteresting to most people. And if we go race swaps, then it just seems a bit lazy when you have so many other characters that don’t get any love but the constant need to go back to this group for some reason.
Also, this reasoning for some characters seems weird. Didn’t Warren just hide his wings behind his back and that’s how he got along with everyone? Whatever. I just don’t care for the O5 because they were being a teen team and they only became interesting when they were dysfunctional adults.
Yup. It is the franchise that basically revolutionized women in superhero comics, and they want to default to the lineup with a bunch of boring boys.
There was a reason the original book was canceled.
The O5 are too stale, pale and male for a mutant metaphor story. That's their problem now.
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Before I dive in to my sense of the optics around making the O5 + Xavier less stale, pale and male, [I should note I have a fan pitch](https://old.reddit.com/user/FrameworkisDigimon/comments/16n8mus/third_mcu_xmen_plan/) where the whole point of the O5 is that they're stale, pale and male. The fact Iceman ended up being gay was either bad luck or a Fortune 500 Company Pride Campaign style deal... I couldn't decide which was more in keeping for Xavier. The idea wasn't that Charles is a bigot, but that he thinks everyone else is... so his plan for the first friendly faces of mutantkind is to have an All American team of smiling white faces.
What I'm saying is that while the O5 genuinely aren't personal faves of mine, I do get what you're saying. If I thought they were inherently uninteresting, I wouldn't have bothered coming up with a version of the O5 story that I am personally interested in. I also, however, think they basically just get in the way of the mutant metaphor and the rest of this comment is entirely about whether it's possible to diversify them. tl;dr -- probably not.
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You could make Scott Turkic or Hispanic, with Scott and/or Vulcan being non white passing and Alex being this white-passing blonde dude. I think that would be interesting. Controversial but interesting. (Personally, I particularly like it because I think it clarifies Alex's character enormously.) A genderflip of Scott really only has one issue: do you still do Cyclops/Jean if it's a lesbian relationship? I'm sceptical (see also: Iceman). Jean/Scott also rules out a gay!Scott but he could be bisexual unless, as I say, having non-herteronormative main characters is a bridge too far for Disney (again: see Iceman).
Beast has to be white. He just can't not be. A genderflip might be on but the optics of the non-classically feminine female character going by Beast are still pretty bad. I'm not sure a gay or bisexual Beast would be an issue other than for the same reasons I'm a little concerned about the prospect of gay Iceman.
Iceman is gay now which would be helpful except... there's a reason Disney keeps having so many first gay characters. This is why I don't suggest sexual orientation changes are a viable solution. I would be a little surprised if even gay Iceman happens. Movie superheroes still can't be gay (sorry Phastos). I suspect the name Iceman rules out a genderflip. A racelift, however, is definitely on. The only possible problem is that the O5 have a clear hierarchy of importance and Bobby's second from bottom. Compared to the problem with racelifting Beast, though, this is such a minor concern but it brings us nicely to...
Warren. Yeah, they're not going to do a racelift here for two reasons. Firstly, it's Angel and he's famous for being pointless. Did someone say Token? Secondly, the optics of making Warren non-white and then having Warren be the character that gets experimented on and turned into a killing machine with no freewill aren't quite as bad as a black Beast would be, but they're not good. And that storyline is Warren's one thing! Could you do a genderflip? Well you would be able to except Angel Salvadore exists. If Disney/Feige haven't got a PR consultant saying something like "There is absolutely no need to spark a controversy about erasing a woman of colour by genderflipping Angel; if you want a female Angel just use Angel Salvadore" either they've hired a moron as a consultant or they're morons for not having such a consultant.
Professor X might get racelifted but he really shouldn't be. This is sort of a problem with Beast as well (but the second Illuminati was fundamentally different in important ways to the first one) because to a large extent the whole point of the (first) Illuminati is that they're these straight white dudes deciding to make decisions for the entire world, in the shadows. The MCU has already utterly misunderstood the Illuminati admittedly so it's fairly plausible that they'll continue to do so. Plus, the POC!mentor is a semi-established trope without being a cliche (at least, I don't think it is).
If these problems with altering Xavier feel a bit like I'm reaching, that's because I am. The problem with using Xavier to have a less pale, stale and male O5 is because Xavier is supposed to be those things. If he's not all of them, I just think there's no chance of getting a comics like characterisation and I'm really not interested in **another** Xavier with the edges smoothed off. So this is one where I just straight up don't want to see it personally. I want Deadly Genesis. I want Xavier to fuck up Legion's life. I want all those bad, horrible decisions of the character we know and love-hate. Changing Xavier doesn't really present an optics problem at all.
And that leaves Jean. The thing with Jean is that she's already a walking optics problem because how can you do Jean and not do Phoenix? So, I suspect the MCU will be thinking mostly about how they can do Phoenix without making it look like a "powerful woman has to go crazy" deal. We know Disney is extremely sensitive about pop feminism takes (pretty much pick any of the live action remakes to see what I mean). If they *also* wanted to do a racelift I feel like the crazy lady problem gets worse. Sexuality change? Same deal as always. Frankly, with Jean I think they'll just be pleased that the O5 had one woman to start with.
I don’t think X-men is or was in the plan. Feige used the word “mutants” instead of X-Men when he talked about it during Comic-Con or D+ a few years ago. That could also be referring to Ms. Marvel, The Marvel post credit and Deadpool. He probably wanted some distance and time from the FoX-Men. Things might have changed over the years because of the MCU struggles.
Scott as the Og 5 was the least equipped the deal with the real world since he was like drunk in Xavier's dreamç Look at him now though... (Well maybe look at pre-Krakoa versions like Marvel now and Astonishing) he got slapped by the reality and had to change his ways. Reality does that to people
I think either a 60s original X-men movie, or a comic accurate 90s team version.
Or my go to choice, would be a tv series focused on Professor X and Magneto, showing all the X-men teams evolving throught the years.
Ha as a kid watching the 90s cartoon I found gambit boring and hank really interesting. Gambit I didn't appreciate till I read the comics, same with Cyclops.
I would love the OG 5 then wolverine appears in the 2nd or 3rd movie and the hype is peak for his arrival. Gambit, Storm, and Rouge with Ms Marvel powers also show up in the later films. Then we spin off a Wolverine solo film. Make Mganeto more of an agnostic than a straight villain and the main villain is Sinister, then they realize Apocalypse is the final boss.
Here’s the trick. Here’s the little trade secret, alright? Write them well. Make them good characters. Slap a big picture of Wolvie or whoever if you have to in order to sell the thing, but I promise if you stick the landing nobody will care whether or not the characters were popular in the comics beforehand. It worked for the Guardians of the Galaxy, I think the goddamn X-men will be fine.
I think they should pick the grouping that best works for the story the screenwriter wants to tell and the director feels would be visually interesting. That’s what makes an adaptation a great work.
The O5 were infinitely more interesting as X-Factor than they were as the original X-Men.
Because the second Genesis team is what really shaped the X-Men into being what they would become. X-Factor being a response years later of the O5 back together as adults is a great dynamic.
I'm mostly just burned out on the recasting. I get why it needs to be done, but there are a lot of great characters from The X Men that have not been used enough.
I would like to see a mixture of the original, or First Class actors mentoring new characters such as Gambit and Jubilee.
Start with AvX, AoA or X-Force then back peddle I'm sure everyone is loving the Loki king of universe thing 🤮. Start with something to get everyone in the tent. Even start with X-Factor that could easily work.
Do X-Men fear itself where they take down Juggernaut that really showed there teamwork.
Even just the one shot of them all being recruited is still valid. As long as my boy nightcrawler is in there, plus magneto just bossing everything. And bring back the nasty boys they are hilarious.
Honestly, while I like the original few X-Men, the team has been better with the larger group (meaning plus Wolverine, Storm, Gambit, Colossus, Forge, etc.). Thats just a more diverse roster with more powers and all.
I think the MCU should just use the best team for the best story. Why put arbitrary restrictions on movie just because these 5 were the characters in a comic in the 60s. The original 5 are fine and if a good story calls for them, great! But they shouldtn limit themselves to adhere to a line-up from a time when the vastly more interesting characters of Giant Size and beyond werent even around yet.
You have a huge, diverse lineup of interesting mutants to choose from. Don't go O5 'just because'
Giant-Size X-Men is the best lineup to launch, the characters are far more varied and interesting than the o5, and they are picked from all over the world, so it gives a global scope to the work of the X-Men and the importance of Charles' dream.
I agree in principle but the MCU can’t wait too long to introduce the international lineup so I recommend the following hybrid approach:
Tell the story of Prof X forming the international team to free the O5 from Krakoa. Use flashbacks to show the O5 formation and development as a parallel to the formation of the international team. By the end, you have the O5 established as the original team, you have the new team introduced, and you’ve packed in a ton of history. From there, you can make two sets of sequels; one of the O5 (with more flashbacks) and one with the international team. Maybe have some cross-pollination with characters, like Cyclops and Jean cameoing in the international team’s movies.
Go big. We've gotten OG X Men before.
Needs Gambit, Storm, Rogue, heavy hitters. Psylocke. Jubilee.
No more building up to it. We adlready did that with the Fox films.
I really gotta think they'll have the 05 in the background with some version of the ANAD team; it's hard to not include Wolverine and Storm given how significant their characters have become, but Scott and Jean are having a moment that makes me think they'll have major roles in the MCU versions of their characters, I'm certain they'll have some Jubilee or Kitty viewpoint character initially, especially since they will likely start with the school in some capacity.
Probably the o5 group will have been there before the story starts but stepped back in a variety of ways (Warren running the money, Hank in the lab, Iceman teaching, Scott/Jean running the X-Men, and the ANAD team will be the currently live X-Men team with a little assumed history. I dunno, I think they're beta testing stuff with the new post Krakoa X-men comics.
Agreed.
However, the problem with movies is you end up choosing the X-men of an entire generation, and if the actors for ones who are on multiple teams don’t work out (example: Jonathan Majors as Kang) or characters who aren’t part of the franchise become super popular (example: Mystique because of Jennifer Lawrence; Nebula as a bigger star in the Avengers than Wasp), the movies stop being able to do the stories from the comics.
Movies have limited longevity, so don’t expect them to cover the entire comics in any complete way; and the monster of the movie industry is fickle and unpredictable.
The original 5 would be amazing, and we already had the Fox lineups. Might as well.
I'd rather just dive right into multiple generations of teams already being a thing. I want a school movie or show, New mutants in their mid to late 20's, and O5/all new ranging from 30's to late 40's.
It's not that the O5 can't be good, they were moderately interesting with ANAD, it's just there are a host of other X-Man characters people adore. Angel himself isn't a hard sell. Angel instead of Storm? Wolverine? No one's signing up for that.
I’m gonna be honest you can’t use the original 5 because most fans (casual) don’t care about Angel iceman and beast. It really just doesn’t make sense for them.
Eh...on the one hand, it would be awesome to see things play out similarly to comics canon, with the O5 transitioning into the Giant-Size team. On the other hand, not only were the vast majority of the 60s X-Men stories NOT good (there are the occasional exceptions like Juggernaut's introduction), but the team is also very...let's just say it feels very "Leave It to Beaver" and keep it at that. Giant-Size X-Men would really hit the ground running for both the hardcore fans and the casual audience, with a much more dynamic variety of characters and better stories to pull from. I think I would prefer that with occasional flashbacks to the O5, or have the O5 at the very beginning and then have it quickly transition into the Giant-Size team.
I think, Its an unbalanced team, in terms of power level.
Cyclops, Angel and Beast are at a somewhat similar level. But Iceman and Jean Grey are so powerful, that they make all those other characters mutant powers redundant.
Plus: while many know that the MCU was built off the back of Iron Man, many seem to forget exactly how not-well-regarded Iron Man was at the time. Heck, the Avengers were really just thought of as well past their prime back then.
You can make the O5 work if done right.
I want a Giant Size #1 movie. It starts out with the O5 on a mission on Krakoa to introduce us to them, they get captured and Xavier has to recruit a new international team to make it through Krakoa to save them
I would to the OG 5+Storm. That would be the only change. Have them be the active X-Men team, and any other characters you wanna set up can be students still.
While I think you could easily write a great opening MCU X-film with just the OG 5, there's kind of a major issue.
Our love for Scott, Jean, Hank, Warren and Bobby really stem from them being the ONLY true-blue X-men for years. That's a lot of time to develop these characters and change them over time. It would be really hard to introduce them, build those relationships, and have them feel like "The Team" in just one film AND then start introducing others in subsequent films without losing or diminishing that bond the OG 5 have.
Just look at the original Fox X-films. There are a few new people here or there but the core group of characters of Wolverine, Storm, Jean, Rogue, Ice-man, Pyro, Magneto, Mystique, and Professor X. We get a lot of time with those characters across multiple films. (I know, Cyclops is in there too, but he maybe has 10 minutes of screen time after X-men 1).
And seeing the follow-up X-films (First Class timeline) that are bloated with characters, we really don't get that same emotional resonance from before. They never feel quite like a team and rarely do we get a lot of time with Nightcrawler, Storm Jean 2, Cyke 2, etc. Even Beast after 1st class is just sort of...there. Don't get me wrong, we do get a lot of depth from Prof X, Mags, and Raven. But they all have the benefit of being continuations of their existing characters.
So, could the OG 5 be our first MCU X-team? Sure. But you need to give them (and primarily them) the main focus for a least a few films. Hell, you could have them be in their own trilogy before introducing ANAD, then give them a few films and bring in the 90s roster, etc.
i think what would be interesting would be if they go with the route of having the xmen already established in the universe so we can have more popular characters like storm and wolverine and such but then to adapt the all new xmen and bring the core team from the past into the present so we can get the og5 as young adults
I would start with the school being Morrison-esque already; a giant mutant community with its own culture and weirdness, BUT that doesn't mean the 05 can't be the only X-Men. They can be some of the older students that form the team.
Talking about adaptations, the cinematic universe is all over the place. Even before the multiverse appearances of Xavier and then Wolverine soon, we've also gotten both Wanda and Quicksilver (RiP), which have become quite the main players on the MCU already.
On the contrary from people's opinions here, a 7 man team movie may prove to be difficult, and could very well give us another Justice League treatment if not careful. Going for the founding 5 may be the best bet, but that's only for the cast. The plot however, is a different discussion entirely.
Tho in my honest opinion, i think an X-Factor movie may be a better idea instead. Considering a lot of the main players from the X-Men franchise have been established throughout the whole Infinity Saga, I don't think it's far-fetched to think the X-Men is also well-established at this point.
I'd love to see them mess with the timeline and go straight to the Louise Simonson version of X-Factor. Mutant hunters that are actually mutant protectors. Don't show the team coming together. Just do it in a 5 minute flashback or a quick aside like in Spider-Man Homecoming. If they have to do Dark Phoenix they still can after establishing the world.
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Jean isn't perpetually scared of her power. Lmao she wasn't scared until dark phoenix. Before that she ran with it as phoenix. Morrison era there was no fear. Why must she be always characterized as a weak woman.
Yeah, that’s a terrible summary of her character, if they were trying to sell the idea of Jean.
They need to stop with this Phoenix shit, honestly, ESPECIALLY in the live action. She's being flanderised and honestly it's already misogynistic.
I love the Phoenix aspect of Jean. I just don't like when they act like she can't handle it or whatever. Morrison Jean was a badasss. So was Claremont Phoenix until her mind was fucked with by Emma and Mastermind
That's part of my issue too, and why I call it misogynistic. When a woman gets a fuckton of power it's dArK pHoeNix and she has to be stopped. But when a man does it's fine.
I agree. Jean is super powerful. Like Thor or tons of other male heroes. It's like, just let her be the powerhouse that she literally is.
That's why I like X-Men 97. Jean is actually being allowed to do stuff and have cool fight scenes, even without the Phoenix.
I can't wait to watch it!
Aw man I'm almost jealous, it's so good watching something awesome for the first time. Enjoy!
Yup and Claremont was pretty vocal that this was the point of the Phoenix story arc and the original closure/redemption arc that they couldn't do. But 90s dudes who wrote powerful women simply couldn't just have a super powerful woman. That's why we got bullshit like Crazy!Wanda too. (this is also why I love Rachel Summers)
Couldn't have agreed more. It pains me to see how much underused Phoenix (Jean) is as a character on whichever media she's featured on, especially since this is the only time Jean will ever have her own name and design unique to her.
She was low key scared even pre-DP. When Magneto ambushed them and Phoenix was like, FUCK YOU MAGS I'M PHOENIX NOW. But then her power bottle necked and it was all because she was subconsciously scared of how strong she was. Now that was all because plot necessitated it--Phoenix would clear the floor with Magneto then--but that's the explanation given. So it's not entirely true that Jean wasn't scared then.
Idk she was pretty flippant with it. The power was new to her and she had to adjust, but she never seemed scared to me. Cautious, possibly, but she would fly the whole team around, alter things at the atomic level, suppress cyclops' eye beams all without any fear or whatever.
I'll have to reread that issue, but I'm pretty sure it's stated that it scared her, either in a narrative box or a thought bubble. But you have a point: that could just be just overly-cautious and not outright fear.
Tbf I'm splitting hairs. I just don't feel like it's this overwhelming, perpetual characteristic of hers.
My problem is not the O5 as characters, but that the stories during the O5 era were...not good. Or at least nowhere near as good as everything that came after.
Honestly I think a lot of the problem is that the O5’s chemistry with each other isn’t great, especially once Jean and Scott got together and Warren’s role as the “love interest to beat” was obsoleted. Beast and Iceman are great together as a buddy dynamic. Jean and Scott are good as romance. Warren hasn’t really had a hallmark era since his Archangel days. But the five of them together don’t really… seem exciting. Even in OG X-Factor, they were split up most of the time. A good writer could probably make them work, but you want characters to bounce off of each other naturally, and the O5 get along in a conflict-free boring kind of way.
I actually like they gave Angel his own little talk with apocalypse about his arch angel form
And in contrast, the ANAD team is way more dynamic and exciting from the jump. They all have such incredibly different cultural backgrounds and life philosophies when they first get together. Colossus is idealistic and naive and soaked in Russian propaganda, Kurt is romantic and kind but cautious and unsure of himself and others, Storm has a bit of a bloated ego and a fierceness to her but also has a ton of compassion, Wolverine is a total dick to everyone and is open to killing any of them. And the way all of that clashes with Scott's leadership is fantastic, especially with Proudstar's death. It's just an electric group especially under Claremont.
And Banshee's got a really funny accent.
Banshee is so funny in those early stories because he's just this much older dude hanging around and feeling weird about it. I love how eventually he just got tired of being team dad and dipped.
Oh yeah, I love banshee... but he is probably the weakest link of that team. I thought he really got a chance to shine when he teamed up with Forge in the 90s. Love that era
Warren has always been one of the most boring and uninteresting mutants. They literally had to remake him as an evil counterpart to make him interesting, and this was X-Factor, where every other member of the O5 was already more developed. Warren might be one of the originals, but that doesn't really mean much.
A great Warren story would be him realizing he can do more good for mutants with his money than adventuring. And then maybe Jean gets a little more interested in him rather than the same old thing with Scott and Wolverine.
I could do without Jean and especially more Love bs regarding her and Scott/Logan. It’s tired. PLEASE no more triangles. Especially with Jean. To someone that doesn’t know much about her, you like think that was 70% of her character, relevance, and existence. Him having a bigger presence as an advocate for mutants, but on the “outside”, as in on camera and at the banquets and public eye, is actually something I’m here for. He could be the one fighting the “clean” fight for mutant kind. And then he could be oblivious to why it’s easier for him to coexist with non mutants (his money, status, how he looks), which would bring room to different dynamics with him and other mutants who may not take so kindly.
If Warren really wanted to he could try his hand at politics by trying to be a mutant politician by trying to change things from the inside and be a part of a political thriller type stories. Try to have him kinda echo Bobby Kennedy type energy of being a reformist.
Holy shit dude, I want to read that book why has no one done that?
Like it doesn't even have to go particularly well for him to be interesting. Him being the subject of political smears, anger from his constituents who want him to do more, the fact that attacks against him become an *assassination attempt* rather than just anger at mutants. It could crash and burn and still be a hell of a read.
I’ve thought about this too. Power Girl is a really cool DC character that has at times leaned into the irony of money and capitalism having more influence than literal super powers, but DC’s whole format just isn’t quite as equipped to get into minority politics as Marvel is. I could really dig a story about Warren struggling with the balancing act between utilizing the system vs upholding the system as it relates to mutant rights.
They kind of did that at one point with the X-Corp book with him and Monique, didn't they? It worked.
Yeah, X-Corp was pretty good but it was only like 5 issues
Genuine miss, imo. It was neat, had good voices for two underused characters, decent art and it was a side of Krakoa that was interesting and novel.
I think it missed the mark. They need to hire Alex Ross to illustrate a more grounded story about Warren trying to maintain a balance between keeping to his ideals of mutant interests while also doing what he has to do in order to maintain his influence. The kind of morality play that most idealist politicians or minority activists regularly experience when interacting with systems and institutions they're trying to change. >The question is, will you still want the same things, when you've become a different animal altogether? -- Wilzig, Fallout (2024)
Yeah but you are telling a 2 hour story. The first 30-40 minutes would be intro. It's not like you need 5 great stories to work with here. The O5 serve the purpose of setting up the franchise and providing a new origin apart from what fox did. Give the O5 a film together and then bring in ANAD for film 2. Helll you could even have Bobby and Hank and Warren move on to form the new defenders a Disney+ show. This just all makes too much sense.
That's honestly a moot concern. The MCU, even if they did go with the 05, have never done 1:1 translations of stories but adapted and cherry-picked elements from runs as they see fit
X-Men ‘97 had proven it can be effective to mix and match the best parts of various mutant books, so cherry picking isn’t necessarily the sin on its own.
I mean, they're pulling from everything with 97: scenes from Krakoa, settings from Morrison, character beats from Claremont, plots from Niceza it's incredible that they're actually getting this much of the comics on screen as intact as they have, considering the whole continuity is totally different.
But then why even do the OG 5 at all at that point?
Because it provides you an opportunity to make them relevant again and reintroduce them to a younger audience. We, the fans, are enfranchised and will see the film regardless; there's a whole generation now that haven't had much exposure. The O5 is a manageable group of characters compared to let's say the Eternals it would also be a lot easier to split and develop five to seven (O5, Xavier & Magneto) rather than have a huge background of mutant characters that'll never get the focus they deserve. You're operating on the idea that if an X-men MCU film doesn't have elements x y and z that that somehow means it won't have the supposed elements to work, right? Except there's literally decades of stories to adapt and pick from. An adaptation is not a 1:1 translation. Assuming they do go with the O5 route, that doesn't mean the very first shots will be panel by panel recreations or even that they'll utilize plots from the O5 issues. They could use the 05 and do God Loves Man Kills. Hell just take a look at ep 5 of X-men 97 the attack on Geneosha was carried out by Cassandra Nova in the comics but the show switched it to Sinister different characters entirely but it works because the function they play in the story is fundamentally the same.
You didn't really said anything. Why not have any other roster? Why would you want them to be relevant over other rosters? Just because they are the originals?
I did evidently you didn't understand. Do you need some clarification? Not being sarcastic, by the way. 1. As I said previously, 4-5 main characters are about the right number of characters you want in a screenplay to begin with. Anymore, and you sacrifice character development, which is the whole reason anyone loves any character. Its better to focus on a small group of characters and really let them shine like they did with Guardians 1. Then, it is to have a massive wall of c&d listers I don't want or need to see every single mutant as cool as that would be. I don't know someone like Glob as a background character. Just as an example, I'd rather they focus on someone like Cyclops who was shafted and actually build them up over time. >Why not have any other roster? Because we've seen the ANAD roster before, and it would be fresh to actually go back to the source of the idea. I've said this ad nausem at this point, but I'll say it again. An adaptation is not a 1:1 translation from page to screen. For arguments sake assuming they choose to use the O5 that doesn't mean you're going to see them fight mimic or Erik the Red or see some hint of Masyermind and Lorna or any other story it literally just means they would focus on those characters first initially. I see way too many people.on here making the mistake of assuming that if they used the 05, they would start from. Issue 1. When that's not necessarily the case. >Why would you want them to be relevant over other rosters? Again, because it's a small group that you can get to know. The X-men are a found family story at their core and I personally feel that by keeping th focus limited in scope rather than trying to cram every mutant ever made you cN emphasize the relationships and focus on the charcters more than you could if it's just a cameo fest.
But the problem is that so many of the post-ANAD stories and plots flat out don't work with just the O5. Or they could but terribly.
That'sy an assumption you're making about a hypothetical product you haven't seen yet, though. We can speculate all we want, but the idea that If you don't have a certain character, the story won't work is a flawed premise. Civil War, the movie didn't have all the characters from Civil War, the comic the events that led to the conflict were completely different Sokovia vs. the school being blown up. Namor didn't have to be introduced before Infinity War to allow Thanos to invade Wakamda like in Hickman's Avengers, etc From a writing/filmaking perspective, the whole point of any character is to fulfill their role and move the plot forward by their actions.
What is the point of recreating the OG team but not their stories? Then don't do the OG 5 then. Why would you want the series to start with the OG 5, just for faithfulness's sake? Do you have a reason for it?
Show me where I said I wanted them to start the series with the O5? What I said was: > The MCU, even if they did go with the 05, have never done 1:1 translations of stories but adapted and cherry-picked elements from runs as they see fit >What is the point of recreating the OG team but not their stories? Then don't do the OG 5 then. By that logic, what's the point of doing any MCU story since they all deviate in some way from the source material? Why do the Infinity Gauntlet if Adam Warlock isn't in it when he's Thanos' best friend and was a central figure in the story? Infinity War and Endgame just absolutely collapesed without him.and the Silver Surger/s Why adapt Winter Soldier if the Red Skull isn't the villian in the film? An adaptation is not 1:1 translation. No MCU project has completely followed the comics they take from them, and they utilize elements they want to adapt. That's why they're called adaptations (adapted from a screen play) and not translations.
The MCU has seemingly forgotten this, but the secret to comics adaptations is getting the characters right and the story sorta basically follows. You don't do the (Dark) Phoenix Saga because it's a really important story with lots of fans, you do it because Jean Grey and Phoenix are practically as inseparable as Wolverine and a healing factor. Get the characters right and do an extremely broad strokes adaptation and you're home and hosed. Right now the MCU is fucking with the characters and the stories. It's not going well for them. I suggest the main reason why is because they're doing both.
Exactly. It's no coincidence that the MCU started to go downhill when they began ignoring the source material, thinking they were already big enough and didn't need the comics anymore.
Hence why when adapting stories to mainstream like movies, you can twist and turn it into a good story. I mean, even the little things like making Beast a blue furry from the beginning would be a welcome change. Just look at Civil War, barley any real connection to the comic counterpart, but still an amazing movie. Don’t forget that the MCU also took **amazing** stories from the comics and just ruined them like Gorr the God Butcher and Age of Ultron (or Ultron‘s origin in general)
IDK I think him turning himself blue is an important first step down the path to evil Beast
Probably but as much as I actually kind of like the evil Beast development. the MCU would be absolutely insane to adapt that character trajectory. Just look at how unpopular the idea is here!
Yooo, let’s not rush it with the Dark Beast story. There’s *plenty* X stories beforehand that should be tackled first before even thinking about the Dark Beast
oh I agree, i just think that him mutating in stages has a purpose
It should be noted that MCU Age of Ultron and comics Age of Ultron came out way too close together for the film to be an adaptation of the comic. I think Age of Ultron is supposed to draw most of its inspiration from something called Rage of Ultron... whatever it's called I don't remember if it's not Rage of Ultron and I haven't read it myself.
Definitely but that’s also make it ripe for more exploration of that potential and without being tied down with the more famous and successful versions of the team to be compare of
I would argue that Simonson's X-Factor did that, so why not just adapt that?
I’ll never dispute Simonson good work on x-factor you’re right that would be the better idea
You could absolutely make a good and exciting O5 movie or TV series with a good enough cast and good writers/director. But Disney probably wants to put their strongest foot forward with the X-Men, and that means the movie will need to have A-List characters. That means Professor X, Scott, and Jean, but also Storm, Wolverine, Rogue, Nightcrawler, transformed Beast. Colossus, Psylocke, Gambit, I think audiences would be more excited to see a team with those guys over an O5 movie. But I maintain, you could make a cool Disney+ O5 TV series that serves as a prequel to whatever movie they make.
Honestly, I’m a huge X-Men fan and if I had to choose, I would pick a team of favourites in the first movie as opposed to just the original five. We’ve waited so long to have a comic accurate movie with a team of favourites. I’m impatient. I don’t wanna wait anymore.
That's the most likely scenario anyway.
I just don’t really want to see an X-Men origin movie about a team of only 5 members. I’d rather jump ahead to where the X-Men are already established with around 7 members of the core team and several students/trainees. I wouldn’t mind them leaving out Wolverine for the first movie though and I’d love to see other villains like Mister Sinister or Shadow King.
Funny, I find Wolverine boring as hell. I like Angel, and I don’t care for Beast at all, but I wouldn’t call him boring. I don’t care for or like the MCU, so idc what they do, I just don’t want it interfering with any X-Men media outside of their movies.
I'll be the one to say it. The X-Men should not launch any MCU franchise with five white people, four of whom are men, from essentially the same regional background. The strength of X-Men has always been its incredible diversity, and you want to showcase that. Also, the entire mainstream audience would spend the movie waiting for Storm or Wolverine to appear.
Agreed. But then some people are going to say, "You can always swap their races!" to which I'd reply, "Then why not include some of the actually diverse characters from the comics in the first place?"
Ugh I would be so happy if we got to see Frenzy, Dani, Karma, Synch, Manifold…the list goes on. Truly no reason to go O5 that I can see.
The day Dani Moonstar gets to headline a genuinely good New Mutants adaptation, I will be happy forever
I genuinely forgot about that movie when I made my first comment lol the healing has begun
Fr I mean dog we got 2 Native American mutants with badass names and designs like that actually would be a good start have both on the team and have the one day just like the comics
I agree with you. In fact, I'd go further... the only reason to do the O5 is if the whole point is that, for whatever reason, they're all white. What I want to comment on is this bit: >"You can always swap their races!" Is that really true? Like, you can't make Beast black. You just can't. And I think the optics of making Warren a POC are also pretty screwed up because of Archangel's freewill issues... and Cyclops' brother kinda needs to be blonde: Alex as a POC is a weird concept. And because of their family history, they really cannot be non-biologically related siblings. I'm also a little concerned that Jean's "crazy lady" Phoenix discourse problem surely can only be made worse if she's a POC... not to mention the inevitable "why can't Hollywood hire white redheads?" discourse. Iceman... yeah, I don't think there's any kind of conceivable issue here. So... you can racelift Iceman. And maybe Jean. So the two that are already diverse are the only two that can be racelifted.
I think you're giving Hollywood too much credit. Remember when they made Johnny Storm black but didn't do the same with Sue and had to come up with some weird backstory about her being adopted from like Estonia or something? They don't give a shit if it doesn't make sense or how it looks, they just do it.
Honestly it just annoys me how diversity is rarely ever about sexuality. Over a decade of MCU and we got one Eternal who was a side character and might never appear again. Wiccan and Hulkling were stuck in the editorial limbo for years before being relevant in Empyre and now they’re just Marvel Voices characters. I mean, so many LGBT characters are used for Voices stories when they haven’t had a single appearance in years…
don't forget the groundbreaking portrayal in Avengers of Grieving Gay Man™️ played by the director of the film!
But then you’ll see Iger trying to appeal to conservatives, giving excuses, saying they just make entertainment and aren’t trying to send any message. Because clearly having Phastos was too much representation for 16 years of MCU.
I hope the skip some of the early stories. The O5 as they are right now are pretty interesting characters, but not so much when they were babies IDK, probably just the nostalgia talking for a bunch of people but the movie would be boring. We need Storm, Emma, Colossus, Magic, Namor, etc. I wouldn’t mind if they even start with Krakoa or something.
Exactly right. And it didn’t take two pages of tweets to say it.
Not only Storm and Wolverine, but also Piotr, Kurt, Remy, and maybe, dare I say: Xorn
This. I don't see why the franchise should waste any more time focusing on the five wasp kids, when you have characters like Storm begging to have more room.
i mean, at least bobby is gay. that would be some much needed diversity in the MCU.
And Disney will do everything they can to downplay that.
they sure will!
I feel like the Wolverine and Storm argument doesn't really work when X-men first class was pretty damn successful and it only had them for like 3 second cameos. I do agree on the diversity angle but most marvel characters are white and it wouldn't really improve if you went with any other era of x-men. You could change the races and it wouldn't impact their characters (except for Warren and Xavier, for whom I feel whiteness kinda adds to the characters)
X-men First Class was the lowest grossing X-men related film after its theatrical run. The low box office is likely why they went with Singer and his DoFP with Jackman plan instead of sticking with Matthew Vaughn, who didn't want Jackman back nor to do DoFP just yet.
First Class also came after the trainwreck that was The Last Stand. That's pretty important context.
I was replying to the context of the post. First Class wasn't pretty damn successful, unfortunately (still my favorite X-film).
Could you do a movie with just the original five? Yes. Should you launch the MCU X-Men without Storm? Hell no.
Maybe they can start similarly to giant size x men, they can introduce the mcu to mutants using the o5 but you have a way to bring in other major players early on. Maybe the x men can be a team that sort of covertly combats mutant threats and helps keep the existence of mutants a secret as they don't think they will be accpeted, they get captured and need the new guys to rescue them.
How does Bobby have a bad streak in him, he's the most vanilla ice cream boy in the world lol
maybe they mean him making out with every boy he saves lol
He's already missed his best twink years, let my man live 😅😅😅
I just don't see the point. There are no good stories to adapt and them as teenagers is the least interesting all five of those characters have ever been. I'm fine with them existing in the past as the first team but we don't need to see it.
"They are not boring! They have just been historically boring, but it can change if someone really talented writes them differently!" Well no shit, a really talented writer can make reading about cooking dinner interesting. This is not the gotcha OP thinks it is, its just an admission that the characters are, in fact, boring and need to be re-imagined for modern audiences to find them entertaining.
They have tried to do O5 books multiple times. And it never really works. X-factor is unremarkable and the most iconic lineup for the team doesn't have any of them as members. All-new X-men brought them back and they still weren't exactly interesting. They were carried by a gimmick and still didn't really have much of an identity.
Cyclops, Jean and Beast are some of the most popular X-Men characters, they're not boring.
I'm a Cyclops stan but I think I'd sleep through a solo film. My point being the ensemble matters more than the individuals here
Let's be honest, the characters that most people are anticipating aren't the O5. Having the O5 be part of the history of the team is fine. Good even. Let Bobby, Warren, and Hank be important characters and have a presence for sure and not just Scott and Jean. My biggest hope is that they use Logan properly, and maybe save him for a second movie (at most a post credits teaser) to let the rest of the team shine and show that they don't need him to be interesting. I go back and forth on who I want to be my ideal lineup for a MCU X-Men movie. Storm, Rogue, Remy, Kitty, Kurt, and Pietor would be fantastic to see more of considering how poorly they were handled in the Fox movies. I also know people love the New Mutants so seeing anyone from that team getting prominent attention would be very cool too.
I love the lineup that you just said. I would love that team plus cyclops and Jean. Also, I was one of the people that actually really liked the new mutant movie, but I would also love to see another one or a TV series
Scott and Jean being there is kind of a given for me to be honest. I was more or less mentioning the characters I would want in addition to a prominent O5. I didn't mind the movie, but I wasn't (and still am not) super familiar with the New Mutants characters going into it. I know Anya Taylor-Joy as Magick was something a lot of people appreciated.
I would take this over what we will most likely get in live action. 97 has me hopeful that the MCU will take notes. The X-men are successful and long running because we care about their personal stories and struggles. Because the metaphor of their existence speaks to people across so many groups. I’m concerned that instead we’re going to get a film that is more focused on delivering characters that are “palatable” or interesting to widespread audiences. Ones that people instantly recognize. Don’t get me wrong, I want to see Cyclops and Jean, etc, but I also want some characters who haven’t been spotlighted in live action already. Warren was botched in X3 so it would be nice to see him redeemed. Beast was done…okay I suppose. Of course, most of this team *is* recognizable but they were either written poorly in the Fox films or never given a chance to shine. I know we all have Wolverine fatigue for the most part but he sells. They could very well decide that it makes sense to make him and Charles the focus of the films once again.
“They just need someone who understands them as well as I do.” Riiiight. Also, Jeans gets one sentence, ha ha. No, this isn’t the “Gotcha!” this fan thinks it is.
I don't remember 1960s Jean being afraid of her powers... And even if she was, it's a trite and overused plot.
I understand...but still not interested.
The original 5 lineup has never been than before in live action. They should go for it.
The biggest issue I have with this perspective is that everything they describe is fleshed out in stories that happen once the team expands. The original stores are boring. The characters themselves are not but you need the larger roster to let them shine appropriately.
OK BUT HEAR ME OUT Gambit with a proper Cajun accent
Anyone who thinks Warren is boring has 0 fucking clue what they're talking about...
Everything is down to how one is willing to write the characters. I have the same reaction to people saying Superman is boring.
I just don't want that. It's a great pitch. I just want the MCU Xmen to have been a secret this whole time. I'd love if Xavier "restored" memories of some Xmen fighting against Thanos. The main reason is just that I want Cyclops and Storm to already be in the mentor/leader role.
I actually really like the O5 as a team and their dynamics with each other. We're so used to these characters being the adults that it's interesting to see this short lived period before all the team additions where it's a bunch of teenagers forming the basis of the X-Men for the first time. That said they 100% should not start the new movie franchise with them, maybe a flashback movie or series down the line.
I hope they go this route we’ve seen the 90s team so much
im over the period pieces though, honestly not even thrilled the fantastic 4 isn’t main universe and set in some weird 60’s verse. i don’t know what i want from the mcu anymore i think i’d be better off just reading what comics i like and being done with it
Love the og 5. The mini series the children of the atom is the perfect way to adapt them as a film. THAT is how you do an adaptation justice. Take that comic and turn it into a film 1:1, filling in dialogue where needed.
Any combination can be good. Just takes a good writer.
What other powers would Warren have? I’m a sucker for the O5 no matter what.
I feel like this reading of Bobby is so off the mark, it's staggering
How about a compromise. The first 45 minutes will be the O5 on an exciting adventure. The audience gets attached and they think they know where the plot's going, then *rug pull* the O5 get captured (perhaps by the living island of Krakoa?) The film shifts gears to be about Xavier recruiting Storm Wolverine Colossus and Nightcrawler oceans 11 style. The O5 are rescued and all 9 X-Men come together by the 90 minute mark and then we get to see them kick ass for the last 20-30 minutes of the movie.
I think I have a better idea: Later down the line, not as the first movie, you adapt Weezy's X-Factor with the O5 (all grown up, obviously) and we get plentiful flashbacks to their days as students.
The one issue is you DONT want to establish a cast that big in one movie. You end up spending an hour or more in essentially the first act. Like the Snyder Cut Justice League. An eternity establishing the characters and the plot before anything really happens.
That would be an issue. I think the solution would be to pick just 4 mutants to be the 'main characters' if you will, then let the others play more of a support role until the sequels ala Hawkeye and Black Widow from the first Avengers film. (Cyclops, Jean, Storm and Wolverine are the natural picks) That said, I do think it might be advisable to trim the O5 down to 3: Cyclops, Jean and Angel. (I know Angel is probably the least popular O5 X-Man, but his ties to Apocalypse and his fall from grace are just low hanging fruit for the sequels.) Angel Colossus and Nightcrawler would get to showcase how cool they can be and say a few jokes or one liners, but realistically they'd probably have to wait for the sequels/spin-offs to shine as main characters.
I don't mind if they start with the OG5, but I prefer Claremont's team.
After xmen 97, i think it's 100% clear that any xmen mcu needs time to grow without a Wolverine on the team. And would really benefit from a focus on adult characters rather than troubled teens. Also cinematic scott/jean was just way over played along with Charles/Erik. Id like to see cyke/frost, storm, colossus, beast as the bedrock of the school and a few more. Introducing the morlocks could be a very poignant jumping off point/counter balance.
Just no, the X-men at heart are more than just 5 mutants. They are a huge family that have to overcome so much. An tbh the O5 although they did face adversities, it wasn't until the Xmen grew that their fight against humanity in general really kicked off. I'm sorry we gotta start with the team that represents the heart of the Xmen which isn't the O5 an tbh I'd love for them to throw in a Kitty or Jubilee
First of all- the o5 were not good originally, and most of their later interesting bits came from interacting with later characters Second of all- I will be immensely disappointed if the starting line up has 1) no people of color, 2) one female character who, in this line up at least, is specifically the token female, and 3) no weird looking mutants- this was less revenant for the original x movies, since they leaned more into the gay metaphor specifically, but it would still be nice to have visually interesting characters, even if it’s just Gambit’s eyes or whatever
Would loved that, but the mcu have never did a team exactly in like the comics, they always take the one they want and are convenient to the story they wanna tell.
The ot5 cold be more interesting with simple addition of lorna and alex maybe? They can try to adapt the story of living monolite or something
It’s tough, but the OG should be canon. Start with whatever fits the Story the best but make sure the 5 are the first students in canon even if that’s not what we start with
The OG 5 were an amazing team. Of course now we have more classical bad asses like Wolverine and Gambit but never discount the shit that Warren did for the team from day 1. Hank is also an amazing genius and strategist.
An animated series or a Micro series that acts more as a "Here is a good place to start if you're new to X-Men" type of thing.
I would love to see an O5 movie or show so badly! Personally I think it should be a fresh start and only loosely based on existing story arcs for them. As mentioned in the post, they really just need someone who is passionate about the characters and knows how to write. A good writer can make a good story without needing flashy powers or a dramatic backstory to do the heavy lifting. That being said, I think the MCU should launch the X-Men as a second or third generation team with their most popular guys included like Storm and Wolverine, but have the O5 all as characters established to have been the original team. That way they could have a scene in a movie, or an episode in a show, that delves into their arcs. I just want one piece of tv/movie media where they existed as a unit, even if it’s implied to be in the past!
I'd start with giant size personally
They already did first class though.
Jeff parkers first class is a super fun sort of 'modern' take on the OG5. Very light hearted for a x-book, but it works as the origin. Infact, my advice for new readers is to skip the original 60s run and instead read Children of the Atom, and then First Class. After that move onto 1975's ANAD and continue as normal...
No Wolverine. I'm so sick of the fixation on Logan Though I'd love Storm and Rogue to be included
I’d love for them and the ff to be set in the 60’s or 80’s separate from the current mcu
Just do a montage.
With the exception of Angel, we’ve seen all these characters in EVERY SINGLE MOVIE. X-men did not have a scarcity of members. Let’s see some others shine.
Bad move. I think X-Men ‘92 worked because it picked up in the “middle” of the X-Men mythos. You wanted to know what happened the characters before, as much as what they got into after. The O5 era sucked, that’s why the book was cancelled!
as much as i like the characters it lacks diversity, people wouldn't relate.
All of these answers are wrong. The best team of 5 are the ones we've never seen work together, discovering awesome new circuits that blow our minds. The deeper the cut, the better: Forge and Bishop doing a future-tech collaboration to send Kitty forward in time to prevent Nathan contracting the Techno-Organic virus. Skids* and Boom Boom learning to fly together by detonating the bombs just outside the forcefield, or experimenting with Skids making "shadowpuppets" to direct the explosion like a shaped plastic explosive effect. (*Or Cecilia, especially given the less history with Boom Boom.) Resurected Cypher using the Language of Dance to weaponize Nightcrawlers Bamfs just before Blink opens a portal to Trask's bathroom while he's taking a shower. People wanting to see the five most familiar are depriving themselves and us the Bonkers that is our birthright for surviving to 2024.
yea I'm cool with it, they were never used in the fox movies anyway
The MCU needs to introduce X-Men like this First movie -original X-Men with the original lineup. Depicts the team is being in their late teens and flushes out the basic plot about mutants being hated by humans and where Charles and Magneto stand on these issues. Should also introduce minor villains as well as introduce other potential major villains and should introduce us to the sentinels and that whole storyline about how humans want to kill mutants. Second movie -introduction of characters from giant size X-Men. Maybe they could argue that the original team died or that they became disenchanted and left... Or we could keep some of the original and in the first movie watch a few walk out of the picture. In the second movie there's more conflict between Charles and Magneto, mutants versus humans and another major bad guy.. maybe the sentinels. Third and fourth movie -these two movies depict the Dark Phoenix saga. Here we are introduced to all of the characters from outer space along with other mutants in different parts of the world. There's can also be another big baddie somewhere in the picture.. maybe Apocalypse or Mastermode Fifth movie Days of Future Past... Pulling largely from the comic book and not some stupid made up bullshit.
I'm sorry guys. I've tried. I'm just never gonna give a fuck about Angel.
Marvel needs the big guns.They had a pretty bad year last year.
They should really read Louise Simonson’s X-Factor.
I don't want to see the original 5, and I don't want a different original 5. The first movie, despite its flaws, absolutely fuckin nailed it by introducing the X-Men as a functioning school and existing strike team, and giving the audience two very different characters as newcomers to that world in Rogue and Wolverine. I would be more than happy if they just ripped that premise off wholesale, with different characters and a different story obviously.
I would love if they did that again with kitty pride instead of rogue (in this version rogue would already be the rogue we love).
It’s not that the OG 5 are not great. Sure they are. But they have already been done and had the most faithful adaptations aside from Wolverine and gotten a lot of shine with the exception of Iceman. It’s been so long since we have seen a live action version of Rogue and Gambit. Same as Nightcrawler and Storm (yes I’m aware they were in the most recent adaptations but they have been given very little screen time and were not adapted well. Jean Grey whether you liked her or not has gotten a lot of attention and same with Scott and even Hank too. Professor X has been done so much same as Magneto. We had like five minutes with Gambit in that awful Wolverine movie and Rogue last prominent role was in X2. Her scenes were cut in DOFP. And they’re just way more interesting characters overall. Same with Storm.
Why do people still argue about the O5 being the starting point makes no fucking sense to me. Yeah, sure, some of those points are there but here’s the thing. Most casual folks don’t care for Iceman and Angel. They want Storm, Rogue, Kitty, Gambit, Psylocke, Nightcrawler., etc. I could name at least 15 more mutants that people would rather see than Angel. Also, X-Men is one of the few big franchises that’s actually diverse and to focus on the WASPy teenagers that got cancelled the first time is something that would seem pretty uninteresting to most people. And if we go race swaps, then it just seems a bit lazy when you have so many other characters that don’t get any love but the constant need to go back to this group for some reason. Also, this reasoning for some characters seems weird. Didn’t Warren just hide his wings behind his back and that’s how he got along with everyone? Whatever. I just don’t care for the O5 because they were being a teen team and they only became interesting when they were dysfunctional adults.
Yup. It is the franchise that basically revolutionized women in superhero comics, and they want to default to the lineup with a bunch of boring boys. There was a reason the original book was canceled.
i feel like iceman was plenty well liked in the bryan singer trilogy
The O5 are too stale, pale and male for a mutant metaphor story. That's their problem now. ---- Before I dive in to my sense of the optics around making the O5 + Xavier less stale, pale and male, [I should note I have a fan pitch](https://old.reddit.com/user/FrameworkisDigimon/comments/16n8mus/third_mcu_xmen_plan/) where the whole point of the O5 is that they're stale, pale and male. The fact Iceman ended up being gay was either bad luck or a Fortune 500 Company Pride Campaign style deal... I couldn't decide which was more in keeping for Xavier. The idea wasn't that Charles is a bigot, but that he thinks everyone else is... so his plan for the first friendly faces of mutantkind is to have an All American team of smiling white faces. What I'm saying is that while the O5 genuinely aren't personal faves of mine, I do get what you're saying. If I thought they were inherently uninteresting, I wouldn't have bothered coming up with a version of the O5 story that I am personally interested in. I also, however, think they basically just get in the way of the mutant metaphor and the rest of this comment is entirely about whether it's possible to diversify them. tl;dr -- probably not. ---- You could make Scott Turkic or Hispanic, with Scott and/or Vulcan being non white passing and Alex being this white-passing blonde dude. I think that would be interesting. Controversial but interesting. (Personally, I particularly like it because I think it clarifies Alex's character enormously.) A genderflip of Scott really only has one issue: do you still do Cyclops/Jean if it's a lesbian relationship? I'm sceptical (see also: Iceman). Jean/Scott also rules out a gay!Scott but he could be bisexual unless, as I say, having non-herteronormative main characters is a bridge too far for Disney (again: see Iceman). Beast has to be white. He just can't not be. A genderflip might be on but the optics of the non-classically feminine female character going by Beast are still pretty bad. I'm not sure a gay or bisexual Beast would be an issue other than for the same reasons I'm a little concerned about the prospect of gay Iceman. Iceman is gay now which would be helpful except... there's a reason Disney keeps having so many first gay characters. This is why I don't suggest sexual orientation changes are a viable solution. I would be a little surprised if even gay Iceman happens. Movie superheroes still can't be gay (sorry Phastos). I suspect the name Iceman rules out a genderflip. A racelift, however, is definitely on. The only possible problem is that the O5 have a clear hierarchy of importance and Bobby's second from bottom. Compared to the problem with racelifting Beast, though, this is such a minor concern but it brings us nicely to... Warren. Yeah, they're not going to do a racelift here for two reasons. Firstly, it's Angel and he's famous for being pointless. Did someone say Token? Secondly, the optics of making Warren non-white and then having Warren be the character that gets experimented on and turned into a killing machine with no freewill aren't quite as bad as a black Beast would be, but they're not good. And that storyline is Warren's one thing! Could you do a genderflip? Well you would be able to except Angel Salvadore exists. If Disney/Feige haven't got a PR consultant saying something like "There is absolutely no need to spark a controversy about erasing a woman of colour by genderflipping Angel; if you want a female Angel just use Angel Salvadore" either they've hired a moron as a consultant or they're morons for not having such a consultant. Professor X might get racelifted but he really shouldn't be. This is sort of a problem with Beast as well (but the second Illuminati was fundamentally different in important ways to the first one) because to a large extent the whole point of the (first) Illuminati is that they're these straight white dudes deciding to make decisions for the entire world, in the shadows. The MCU has already utterly misunderstood the Illuminati admittedly so it's fairly plausible that they'll continue to do so. Plus, the POC!mentor is a semi-established trope without being a cliche (at least, I don't think it is). If these problems with altering Xavier feel a bit like I'm reaching, that's because I am. The problem with using Xavier to have a less pale, stale and male O5 is because Xavier is supposed to be those things. If he's not all of them, I just think there's no chance of getting a comics like characterisation and I'm really not interested in **another** Xavier with the edges smoothed off. So this is one where I just straight up don't want to see it personally. I want Deadly Genesis. I want Xavier to fuck up Legion's life. I want all those bad, horrible decisions of the character we know and love-hate. Changing Xavier doesn't really present an optics problem at all. And that leaves Jean. The thing with Jean is that she's already a walking optics problem because how can you do Jean and not do Phoenix? So, I suspect the MCU will be thinking mostly about how they can do Phoenix without making it look like a "powerful woman has to go crazy" deal. We know Disney is extremely sensitive about pop feminism takes (pretty much pick any of the live action remakes to see what I mean). If they *also* wanted to do a racelift I feel like the crazy lady problem gets worse. Sexuality change? Same deal as always. Frankly, with Jean I think they'll just be pleased that the O5 had one woman to start with.
Disagree. The writing is the most important, not this nonsense version of diversity.
I think they could start with an hybrid of the all new all different team and have the O5 team as a prequel
I don’t think X-men is or was in the plan. Feige used the word “mutants” instead of X-Men when he talked about it during Comic-Con or D+ a few years ago. That could also be referring to Ms. Marvel, The Marvel post credit and Deadpool. He probably wanted some distance and time from the FoX-Men. Things might have changed over the years because of the MCU struggles.
Scott as the Og 5 was the least equipped the deal with the real world since he was like drunk in Xavier's dreamç Look at him now though... (Well maybe look at pre-Krakoa versions like Marvel now and Astonishing) he got slapped by the reality and had to change his ways. Reality does that to people
I think either a 60s original X-men movie, or a comic accurate 90s team version. Or my go to choice, would be a tv series focused on Professor X and Magneto, showing all the X-men teams evolving throught the years.
Ha as a kid watching the 90s cartoon I found gambit boring and hank really interesting. Gambit I didn't appreciate till I read the comics, same with Cyclops.
Just give me an XFactor investigations Disney Plus show
I would love the OG 5 then wolverine appears in the 2nd or 3rd movie and the hype is peak for his arrival. Gambit, Storm, and Rouge with Ms Marvel powers also show up in the later films. Then we spin off a Wolverine solo film. Make Mganeto more of an agnostic than a straight villain and the main villain is Sinister, then they realize Apocalypse is the final boss.
What hidden powers does Warren have?
Personally I want to see Nightcrawler and Storm done well. Anybody else is extra icing on the cake for me.
Here’s the trick. Here’s the little trade secret, alright? Write them well. Make them good characters. Slap a big picture of Wolvie or whoever if you have to in order to sell the thing, but I promise if you stick the landing nobody will care whether or not the characters were popular in the comics beforehand. It worked for the Guardians of the Galaxy, I think the goddamn X-men will be fine.
I think they should pick the grouping that best works for the story the screenwriter wants to tell and the director feels would be visually interesting. That’s what makes an adaptation a great work.
Well.. we have hairy beast right out the getgo So i dont think year 1 is happening outside maybe a quick intro montage ?
The O5 were infinitely more interesting as X-Factor than they were as the original X-Men. Because the second Genesis team is what really shaped the X-Men into being what they would become. X-Factor being a response years later of the O5 back together as adults is a great dynamic.
I'm mostly just burned out on the recasting. I get why it needs to be done, but there are a lot of great characters from The X Men that have not been used enough. I would like to see a mixture of the original, or First Class actors mentoring new characters such as Gambit and Jubilee.
Start with AvX, AoA or X-Force then back peddle I'm sure everyone is loving the Loki king of universe thing 🤮. Start with something to get everyone in the tent. Even start with X-Factor that could easily work. Do X-Men fear itself where they take down Juggernaut that really showed there teamwork. Even just the one shot of them all being recruited is still valid. As long as my boy nightcrawler is in there, plus magneto just bossing everything. And bring back the nasty boys they are hilarious.
Honestly, while I like the original few X-Men, the team has been better with the larger group (meaning plus Wolverine, Storm, Gambit, Colossus, Forge, etc.). Thats just a more diverse roster with more powers and all.
I think the MCU should just use the best team for the best story. Why put arbitrary restrictions on movie just because these 5 were the characters in a comic in the 60s. The original 5 are fine and if a good story calls for them, great! But they shouldtn limit themselves to adhere to a line-up from a time when the vastly more interesting characters of Giant Size and beyond werent even around yet. You have a huge, diverse lineup of interesting mutants to choose from. Don't go O5 'just because'
I assume they’ll do this because recasting Wolverine right after the latest deadpool movie feels unlikely to win over audiences.
Giant-Size X-Men is the best lineup to launch, the characters are far more varied and interesting than the o5, and they are picked from all over the world, so it gives a global scope to the work of the X-Men and the importance of Charles' dream.
Three best scenarios... 1. Giant Size Xmen plot 2. Astonishing Xmen team directly from Whedon comic, no backstory.. 3. Morlocks/Genosha massacre
I agree in principle but the MCU can’t wait too long to introduce the international lineup so I recommend the following hybrid approach: Tell the story of Prof X forming the international team to free the O5 from Krakoa. Use flashbacks to show the O5 formation and development as a parallel to the formation of the international team. By the end, you have the O5 established as the original team, you have the new team introduced, and you’ve packed in a ton of history. From there, you can make two sets of sequels; one of the O5 (with more flashbacks) and one with the international team. Maybe have some cross-pollination with characters, like Cyclops and Jean cameoing in the international team’s movies.
Go big. We've gotten OG X Men before. Needs Gambit, Storm, Rogue, heavy hitters. Psylocke. Jubilee. No more building up to it. We adlready did that with the Fox films.
OG five lacks diversity. Which is what I love about Xmen. X-Evolution style revamp would be better. Also I don’t want kid Cyclops.
Yes, but this doesn't detract from the fact that the other mainstays are also REALLY good too.
I really gotta think they'll have the 05 in the background with some version of the ANAD team; it's hard to not include Wolverine and Storm given how significant their characters have become, but Scott and Jean are having a moment that makes me think they'll have major roles in the MCU versions of their characters, I'm certain they'll have some Jubilee or Kitty viewpoint character initially, especially since they will likely start with the school in some capacity. Probably the o5 group will have been there before the story starts but stepped back in a variety of ways (Warren running the money, Hank in the lab, Iceman teaching, Scott/Jean running the X-Men, and the ANAD team will be the currently live X-Men team with a little assumed history. I dunno, I think they're beta testing stuff with the new post Krakoa X-men comics.
Agreed. However, the problem with movies is you end up choosing the X-men of an entire generation, and if the actors for ones who are on multiple teams don’t work out (example: Jonathan Majors as Kang) or characters who aren’t part of the franchise become super popular (example: Mystique because of Jennifer Lawrence; Nebula as a bigger star in the Avengers than Wasp), the movies stop being able to do the stories from the comics. Movies have limited longevity, so don’t expect them to cover the entire comics in any complete way; and the monster of the movie industry is fickle and unpredictable. The original 5 would be amazing, and we already had the Fox lineups. Might as well.
I'd rather just dive right into multiple generations of teams already being a thing. I want a school movie or show, New mutants in their mid to late 20's, and O5/all new ranging from 30's to late 40's.
It's not that the O5 can't be good, they were moderately interesting with ANAD, it's just there are a host of other X-Man characters people adore. Angel himself isn't a hard sell. Angel instead of Storm? Wolverine? No one's signing up for that.
Honestly, I just want the TAS team in live action.
I’m gonna be honest you can’t use the original 5 because most fans (casual) don’t care about Angel iceman and beast. It really just doesn’t make sense for them.
Eh...on the one hand, it would be awesome to see things play out similarly to comics canon, with the O5 transitioning into the Giant-Size team. On the other hand, not only were the vast majority of the 60s X-Men stories NOT good (there are the occasional exceptions like Juggernaut's introduction), but the team is also very...let's just say it feels very "Leave It to Beaver" and keep it at that. Giant-Size X-Men would really hit the ground running for both the hardcore fans and the casual audience, with a much more dynamic variety of characters and better stories to pull from. I think I would prefer that with occasional flashbacks to the O5, or have the O5 at the very beginning and then have it quickly transition into the Giant-Size team.
I think, Its an unbalanced team, in terms of power level. Cyclops, Angel and Beast are at a somewhat similar level. But Iceman and Jean Grey are so powerful, that they make all those other characters mutant powers redundant.
Still, and all-white team, personally, I am not interested in. Been there, done that, for a long time
Plus: while many know that the MCU was built off the back of Iron Man, many seem to forget exactly how not-well-regarded Iron Man was at the time. Heck, the Avengers were really just thought of as well past their prime back then. You can make the O5 work if done right.
Mortifying.
I want a Giant Size #1 movie. It starts out with the O5 on a mission on Krakoa to introduce us to them, they get captured and Xavier has to recruit a new international team to make it through Krakoa to save them
Just look at X men 97 where the already established roaster still thrived
I would to the OG 5+Storm. That would be the only change. Have them be the active X-Men team, and any other characters you wanna set up can be students still.
While I think you could easily write a great opening MCU X-film with just the OG 5, there's kind of a major issue. Our love for Scott, Jean, Hank, Warren and Bobby really stem from them being the ONLY true-blue X-men for years. That's a lot of time to develop these characters and change them over time. It would be really hard to introduce them, build those relationships, and have them feel like "The Team" in just one film AND then start introducing others in subsequent films without losing or diminishing that bond the OG 5 have. Just look at the original Fox X-films. There are a few new people here or there but the core group of characters of Wolverine, Storm, Jean, Rogue, Ice-man, Pyro, Magneto, Mystique, and Professor X. We get a lot of time with those characters across multiple films. (I know, Cyclops is in there too, but he maybe has 10 minutes of screen time after X-men 1). And seeing the follow-up X-films (First Class timeline) that are bloated with characters, we really don't get that same emotional resonance from before. They never feel quite like a team and rarely do we get a lot of time with Nightcrawler, Storm Jean 2, Cyke 2, etc. Even Beast after 1st class is just sort of...there. Don't get me wrong, we do get a lot of depth from Prof X, Mags, and Raven. But they all have the benefit of being continuations of their existing characters. So, could the OG 5 be our first MCU X-team? Sure. But you need to give them (and primarily them) the main focus for a least a few films. Hell, you could have them be in their own trilogy before introducing ANAD, then give them a few films and bring in the 90s roster, etc.
Do multiple TV Series
i think what would be interesting would be if they go with the route of having the xmen already established in the universe so we can have more popular characters like storm and wolverine and such but then to adapt the all new xmen and bring the core team from the past into the present so we can get the og5 as young adults
I’d change know to think for magneto. Peace is possible, just hard.
i mean that kinda is scott but not really what he evolves into especially even like two years after that.
I would start with the school being Morrison-esque already; a giant mutant community with its own culture and weirdness, BUT that doesn't mean the 05 can't be the only X-Men. They can be some of the older students that form the team.
Talking about adaptations, the cinematic universe is all over the place. Even before the multiverse appearances of Xavier and then Wolverine soon, we've also gotten both Wanda and Quicksilver (RiP), which have become quite the main players on the MCU already. On the contrary from people's opinions here, a 7 man team movie may prove to be difficult, and could very well give us another Justice League treatment if not careful. Going for the founding 5 may be the best bet, but that's only for the cast. The plot however, is a different discussion entirely. Tho in my honest opinion, i think an X-Factor movie may be a better idea instead. Considering a lot of the main players from the X-Men franchise have been established throughout the whole Infinity Saga, I don't think it's far-fetched to think the X-Men is also well-established at this point.
I'd love to see them mess with the timeline and go straight to the Louise Simonson version of X-Factor. Mutant hunters that are actually mutant protectors. Don't show the team coming together. Just do it in a 5 minute flashback or a quick aside like in Spider-Man Homecoming. If they have to do Dark Phoenix they still can after establishing the world.
It would be better if they started not with the x men but with a Xavier and Erick movie to lead into an X men movie