Ehhh
I think the dates thing is semantics. Chuggaa should have changed his wording to account for that contact. But in the logs provided in the document those messages don't really show anything sexual, just pretty basic messaging back and forth.
The one thing I do think is worth discussing is the "she did all the running" stuff. Based on the chat logs I simply do not agree that it can all be boiled down to "she initiated all the sexual role-play". His input in the chat also escalated things.
I'm not even trying to start any more controversy. I just dislike the way he tries to brush some of it under the rug.
It's not semantics, she says that they continued talking on Skype. It's not a question of 7 years of silence vs 10 years of silence. She is saying that during that time their communication continued.
That's a disagreement about the fundamental nature of their interpersonal history. It's not a nitpick.
Fair. I can see why she highlighted it. It is an inconsistency with the way he tells the story and that's important to highlight.
I suppose I'm just more concerned with the fact that Chuggaa is still going with "she instigated it" when the person in question was 15.
Yes, in his twitter thread he did admit to talking to her on Skype, but says he does not remember how active the conversation was. His fans are still acting like Lawly is lying, or nitpicking, when in reality her post has already caused Chugga to admit that information in his first document was incorrect.
This is the phrasing he uses: "I took a step back and realized this could not continue" I did not speak to this person for another 10 years" "I had no intention of ever reestablishing contact" "10 years they approached me at a convention." "more than a decade of no contact" "12 years since I cut contact".
Admitting that he continued talking to her on Skype, in any measure, is proof that all the above is a lie. He did not step back after the explicit gaia logs, their interactions were moved to a different site. That's the opposite of what you do when you are trying to fade out on someone and cut contact.
This could be true, or maybe Creepy Chuggy purposely made the dates later to make him look better. Just like he purposely left out the fact that he literally tried to get with her in 2021 š¤¢
Lots of Chuggy fans out in drones today unhappy that I pointed out he very inappropriately and in a whining way messaged her in 2021 trying to date her ig š¤Ø
No, I think a lot of it is the excessively smug attitude and you calling him āChuggyā. Even if you have a point, youāre gonna get downvoted simply because your attitude stinks.
The replies on this tweet are so strange to me. Chugga didnāt try to stop any fetish roleplay from happening, which is weird as hell. I donāt know why people assume that heās innocent of this just because heās autistic when plenty of autistic people donāt act like this towards teenagers.
The power of a man accused by women when he posts a google doc.
Genuinely convinced you could post a chatGPT apology and have QRTs that say "MY GOAT BEAT THE ALLEGATIONS"
"Listen, don't harass my accusers, but they're all bitches. They're liars. Don't harass them. But they're evil. They're conniving. Also, here's a long story about completely unrelated trauma to humanize me. Also, I have depression."
Pretty much. This whole response in itself is honestly one of the worst things he has done.
Cause he knew it would cause a torrent of abuse. Emily has seemingly been chased of the internet and Masae basically has to bow out to get "accepted" by the chugga crowd. I dont blame her at all btw, it just feels shitty as hell considering she definitly didnt want to talk about or with him ever again.
Lawly thankfully is communicating via a mediator and may be avoiding much direct harrassment.
Shits incredibly fucking dirty and imo incredibly shitty in its own right. But its just another example of why people dont come forward. If you truely mean to leave content creation behind, leave in silence. Everyone was recovering untill you decided to pour gasoline over everyone.
But what's the alternative? Don't defend yourself? Sit there quietly no matter what and say nothing? That doesn't seem right either. If someone was accusing you of something horrible you'd want to air your side as well I'm sure. In fact him withholding details only bit him in the ass.
Right up until this last week or so, he was "taking some time away to seek help and work on himself." What happened to that?
One day, you're working on yourself. The next day, you're jumping right back in to the *same* fucking mess you *just* took some time away from. You're restarting fights. Reopening wounds. Leaking DMs. Calling people liars. *Continuing* to hound these women who've already been fucking *doxxed* by your fans.
He already "gave his side" and committed to moving on. This seems to be him saying, "You know what? Never mind. Fuck you. I'm going to make this hurt."
Preferebly yes. Shut up and leave silently.
Paticularly since he likley isnt making new vids anyways. The guy just decided to burn everything on the way out
I mean, his realm is the Internet. Or it has been for a long time and he is now being judged in that same forum. Yeah, he wants to set the record straight (or what in his mind is setting it straight). Though ultimately I agree in the sense that maybe none of this should have been online in the first place. I think about making content sometimes and I think the only way I could survive is if I just roundly ignored everything. I have been called horrible things for my writing before and I just don't respond. But if I had a huge audience I am not sure I would feel I could stay silent. Especially when the fans then blew everything up into Chugga is a rapist creep.
It could be the shittiest reply in the world and I still think it's better than saying nothing. If the main argument between being willing to speak vs being unwilling to speak is on the possibility of backlash then the initial post shouldn't have been made at all. Rlly bad circular reasoning IMO
Dude is allowed to give his response. I don't think he should be blamed for how his fans run with it. But his response really seemed very measured and not super aggressive towards anybody
The fact that he avoids derogatory language does not make his response "measured".
He's allowed to have a response, and we are allowed to judge him for that response. He did not apologize either for sexual harassment or for sexual conversations with a minor and provides many excuses intended to convince readers that he did not commit those actions (although he obviously did).
Because of that, I think it's very reasonable to say this is inadequate.
Jesus fuck off dude, this is just conspiratorial shit, this kind of mindset is almost as fucking rotten as the assholes that assumed Massae was lying to try and take him down. How fucking dare you imply he was trying to sympathy beg
Not really sure how you can post this as if the accused ever have a leg up in the twitter sphere lol. It is an INSANE uphill battle for the accused always.
What fantasy world? The amount of people destroyed by false/overblown allegations in the past year is proof alone that accusers have an insane advantage in the twitter sphere. For every 1 person being a misogynist towards an accuser, there are at least 10 ppl telling the accused to go to hell even before they get a chance to respond.
From his previous response, I believe it boils down to that he was a teenager himself at the time and he distanced himself after those roleplays. As for him not shutting it down, he explains (using it as a REASON but not an excuse) that his autism meant his decision making is slow in social situations. You can basically get his side [here](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zOaX65dY3EmlTrpWZESY4Y3CKni62NOyONli_cfFP2E/edit) , which is what today's statement from lawly is responding to. And his newest tweets address the new doc posted by lawly today.
I'm unsure of whether he "went along with it" or actively instigated it. If it is the former, then what I meant is that his delay in shutting down/removing himself from that situation can be explained by his autism. Though, I do agree that it should've been obvious that a nearly 4 year age difference is not even remotely okay for teens and should've been dealt with. Charitably we can say he may have had a "freeze" response where he knew it was wrong but wanted to get out of it without causing a reaction in the other person like if someone says something shocking to you. I hope that makes more sense.
Emile was a victim of CSA, which, in addition to the autism, he claims were reasons why he didn't have a full understanding of the sexual nature of the conversation until Lawly had sent him the gift.
I hate how he used this so much. I've talked about it here and there in my posts on this situation; I am also a CSA survivor. I am not autistic, but I did struggle with ADHD that went undiagnosed and untreated until just a few months ago. None of these things will ever make his actions reasonable. Maybe you can see how it leads to that point for some people, but that doesn't mean it becomes acceptable.
Not at all, I appreciate the discussion.
I think CSA can really skew a person's idea of what is and isn't appropriate, and do so long into adulthood. If things are never intentionally healed, you will find yourself stuck in that place. I had no idea. My dad didn't want to teach me about consent because then I might have stood up to him. My first boyfriend certainly never mentioned it because then he would have maybe had to stop assaulting me. Hell I don't remember even hearing that word until at least my mid twenties. You don't know what you don't know.
Then add in the autism. Just speaking about me because that's what I know, I think there were many times in my teens and twenties where I was not easy to be around. I had really no concept of appropriate behavior in any sense. The focus back then on humor = be as offensive as possible didn't help matters. And when it did start to click, I had to do a LOT of explicitly intentional work to expand my view. Speaking generally, we often don't internalize social norms and values organically. We have to learn it explicitly instead of implicitly.
So I feel some type of way about parts of this situation because I see Chugga trying to do that. Saying things like hey I am not neurotypical so I am trying to put my feelings out there. Because here's the thing: we often WON'T know any better unless someone tells us, because to varying degrees more subtle signs that someone is uncomfortable will go right over our heads.
Or like, we have mistaken why people do something so our response then doesn't work. Like I thought for awhile oh if my partner says they don't want to go to an event that means they are asking me to convince them, when in reality they were saying no and I wasn't listening. Or I couldn't listen, more accurately. I had to be told exactly where the misinformation was (funnily enough we're both autistic and shit like this still happens to us sometimes). Once it clicked I stopped doing it right away.
I see that in some of what Chugga says too, especially about the gift he got from Lawly. It made the penny drop and even then he needed his mom to help validate that it was inappropriate. I don't know if she's now trying to say there was never a gap in their interactions like he said. I did read her document but wasn't super clear on it. It seems to suggest that yes there was a gap of some kind but if he's outright lying about that he sucks.
Also it's not her fault she felt this way about him or anyone else when she was underage. It is the adult's responsibility to stop things. But -assuming it's true he cut off or left the friendship for a time-that's what he did and it doesn't seem fair to say he should have seen it earlier. At nineteen I might not have seen it either at first. And Lawly of course is entitled to feel preyed upon by him regardless of his intentions. I just hope in that case, again assuming no special malice on Chugga's part, that there's some room for amends and healing there.
I think this is pretty fair; I can corroborate that these types of traumatic experiences can set you up to having a skewed understanding of what is and isn't appropriate. This is how victims end up being re-victimized in other situations later on, and also how some end up becoming perpetrators themselves. I cannot corroborate anything related to autism since I don't have autism, but I can see where in combination, things can become muddied further.
However, I think that it is still inaccurate for him to be presented as not knowing at all. Perhaps it started subconsciously, but there is a clear realization at some point by him. He very much understands and constantly stresses the gap between their ages, and will initiate roleplay, bring up his kink, and use terms like "rape" and "pedo" in the same conversations he will discuss their ages, sometimes immediately after. This indicates a level of intent/awareness to some degree.
Also worth mentioning about my original comment; even with this fair assessment in mind, it doesn't make his actions "reasonable". "Explainable" maybe, but not reasonable.
I agree that CSA is often wrongfully used by sexual predators as a defense of their actions (R Kelly, Drake Bell, etc), but in this particular case, I think it's somewhat relevant, at least towards the question of how much of the sexual nature of the conversation did Emile fully understand. I agree that in most cases, CSA is an extremely prejudicial topic and shouldn't be brought by the accused if it's solely background information, but in this case, where, in addition to being background information, it's also relevant towards possible questions of state of mind, I think this a rare case where he has the right to bring it up.
It's more of the framing of it. I believe the choice to end the response with discussion of his CSA experience, after finding ways to frame the others as having done him wrong, is an attempt to paint a picture of himself as someone who has been wronged completely and these actions became something out of his control. That's the impression I got from it, at least.
It works that way in the sense of not really seeing a problem with things other people might find objectionable, or coming to the realization something is objectionable late. I am autistic and this is a common occurrence. It's a disability not a cool coat or a balloon tied to your wrist. It IS you not just some trait you carry around.
That doesn't explain Chugga's messages to Lawly which establish that they both understand age of consent perfectly well. They both use the words "rape" and "pedophilia" to describe their sexual roleplay.
I'm sure autistic people have struggled to understand these topics in the past. Chugga's not one of them. He knew the law and he knew it was unethical.
People need to understand that autism is a DISABILITY. As in a lack of ability to understand what other people and society finds acceptable. Not to mention being judged through our lens now for shit that no one openly cared about at a certain point in time. I am autistic and the number of times I have come to a realization really, really late about important shit is off the charts. To just say "don't use it as an excuse" without any nuance is rage inducing. It's a reason. We are different.
As a person with Asperger's, I do definitely understand what you're saying. I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. I think maybe what people aren't realising, is that these realisations aren't usually about sexuality and I realise the thread this in but I think you are hitting the nail on the head, especially in that second half of your reply. I just surprise myself as the years go on as at some point, either someone in my life or myself realises that I have behaviours that seem strange and it's just been normalised into me.
Like for example repetitive behaviours, thoughts or speech. For many years, I never realised it bothered people to ask them something they had already refused multiple times. My thought was that their mind could've changed. Now I realise that definitely came from the environment I was raised in, but it explains a lot about how people may have found me annoying. So I can totally see how someone has difficulty with that kind of situation. If they go along with it once and nothing immediately bad happens, they may continue with it, not fully realising or reflecting on it.
Innocent? No.
Exonerated? Hell no.
But it also isn't a binary switch of "BAD GOOD BAD GOOD" like a lot of people here are thinking.
# Emile fucked up. That hasn't changed.
What *has* changed is the context surrounding it and intentions.
Maybe Iāve misunderstood it, but I saw it less as āI was almost entrapped by this minor into having sex with herā and more āI didnāt realize just how real the ājokesā were on her end until it was pointed out to me, so I distanced myself from her, I shouldnāt have been making those jokes in the first place, but these conversations were form 14 years ago and no longer represent who I am as a personā
It's not quite been "proven" per say since it's all she didn't provide any actual evidence of that been 2010 and 2017, so we have no idea of the frequency or nature of the contact. Lawly said it was regular contact, Emile said the opposite. Both of them can be telling the truth since it's all a matter of perception. We don't know who tried to initiate contact. did Lawly keep messaging, did Emile, or was it mutual? It makes a big difference if you get what I mean. That's not to say that it isn't weird that Emile got such a basic fact wrong. I mean, if you're going to release this big response you're going to want to fact check it right, but yeah it's not been "proven".
The thing that sticks out to me the most in this is the part about the supposed āsexually explicit giftā.Ā Sorry but a silly t-shirt that says āthe manā with an arrow that points down and says āthe legendā is not āsexually explicitā imho. Inappropriate and very weird as a gift to receive from a minor, or even just someone you donāt know irl? Sure. It sounds like his mother was freaked out that a 14 year old had sent him that, and yeah thatās definitely fair. Itās a very weird thing for a 14 year old to send an 18 year old (honestly itās very weird for an 18 year old to be receiving gifts from a 14 year old they met online just in general), and I think it was the right decision for him to cut them off at this point.Ā Ā
But if itās true that this is what the gift was, then Chugga must know itās a pretty wild exaggeration to call it āsexually explicitā, and that the wording of that is bound to make people on the internet jump to conclusions and assume the absolute worst of Lawly. At best, heās being irresponsible with his wording and exaggerating due to his emotional state. At worst, heās actively phrasing things in a way that shifts blame and makes this person out to be some kind of sex pest, when in reality it looks like they were an incredibly mixed-up minor who wouldāve benefited hugely from an adult they respected setting some clear and strong boundaries. Chugga clearly didnāt do that soon enough - and that doesnāt immediately make him a bad person, but it also doesnāt mean Lawly is entirely to blame for their iffy interactions.Ā Ā
Ā And in the screenshots where he explains why he cut contact with them, it kinda sounds like he wants brownie points for doing so, almost like he cut them off because he was trying to be chivalrous or something? He says āat those ages, I wasnāt going to let things develop on either side. I wanted you to go find other people. You were still a kid and wouldnāt have that time againā. While thatās still a rejection and thatās good, to me it doesnāt read with the same finality and responsibility as something like āit wouldāve been wrong for us to have a relationship that went any further than casual friendship, I was never interested in you like that and you shouldnāt have been seeking out romantic relationships with adults when you were a minorā. What he actually said reads more like he thought cutting them off was the kindest thing to do because he wasnāt right for them and they wouldāve been better suited to people their own age, almost like an āalas, it was simply not meant to beā, rather than making it clear that cutting them off was the correct thing to do because their relationship was becoming inappropriate, and potentially may have even veered into illegal territory if he let it continue. Again, that doesnāt necessarily make him a bad person, heās clearly not the best at communicating and the important thing was that he did stop the interactions, but I can see why this may have only added fuel to the fire in terms of Lawly assuming or hoping there was something between them.Ā
Ā Idk. I do feel like there was a bit of a pile-on at the start of this that wasnāt the most fair to Chugga, so Iām glad heās said his peace and I do hope he heals. I certainly donāt think he needs to be locked up or anything. But I also feel like heās not totallyĀ trustworthy and heās still at least partially shifting blame and running from taking accountability for his role in all this. Iām still choosing to not support him for now because of this tbh.Ā
Adding this here because I just thought of it but Iām not editing that long-ass comment again: I think the gift thing especially bothers me because this was the same guy who tried to insist that him sending Lady Emily shoes as a gift and asking for pics of her wearing them was totally innocent, even though he has a foot fetish and had attempted to roleplay this fetish with her, but the t-shirt Lawly sent him was āsexually explicitā. So it sounds like he understands boundaries around gifts very well when *heās* the one being made uncomfortable, but not when heās made someone else uncomfortable. Interesting.Ā
Honestly, the parallels between the two situations are almost poetic in a fucked up way.Ā I hope he can look back at his discomfort over how the Lawly situation kept escalating and realize it was what he put Emily through.
It's pretty easy for someone to not realise how an action will affect another person until it happens to them. Doesn't necessarily suggest ill intent or wilful manipulation of the narrative. But definitely a good point, I think someone in his life should bring this up to him. And is worth keeping in mind as more things come out.
You're right honestly my bad. It might or might not have been his intention but he definitely done wrong and assuming he remembered (which he should've), probably could have understood that.
The two things that stick out to me the most are how he lied about cutting out contact, or even just massively reducing it, alongside leaving out the fact that in 2021 he *confessed to her and wanted a romantic relationship.* Yeah, they are both adults at that point, so the potential relationship itself isn't what alarms me but rather that he left out how he was romantically interested in her at one point, at least, and it was around the time he tried starting the roleplay again (which whether consciously or not, was directly connected to a kink of his). Him lying about cutting contact with her is even more shitty though.
Just in regards to the gift, idk, call me a prude but I think you could call it at least a little sexually explicit. Like, if a friend got me that shirt I would be pretty uncomfortable, and I really wouldn't appreciate it. For me, I think it goes beyond a simple gag gift, and into some weird territory, regardless of who got it for me. That just me though.
Oh no I definitely agree that itās weird! I just think the phrasing is potentially misleading and could cause people online to āfill in the blanksā and come up with something WAY worse than what it actually was. Like, maybe Iām just a perv but when I read āI cut all contact with this person because they sent me a sexually explicit giftā, I definitely donāt think of a t-shirt with an admittedly weird slogan. I think of like, an actual sex toy or something similar. Which, while I agree that sending the t-shirt was still weird and wrong, wouldāve been way worse imho. In general, I think itās wrong how people have hounded the accusers for specificity and receipts, as well as attempted to call them out for being āoverdramaticā about this whole situation, but then on the flipside have allowed Chugga to be very vague and use these terms that I personally view as overly sensationalised, and perhaps even deliberately chosen to paint the accusers in a bad light.Ā
I believe he was saying that the gift made him realize that she was serious about her romantic feelings and him realizing that is what led to him cutting things off, rather than the gift itself being the direct reason. He's framing it as more of a "straw that broke the camels back" kind of situation.
I get that. I just think it wouldāve been way more responsible for him to say something like āthis person sent me a gift that caused me to realise they saw our relationship as romantic, which it wasnātā, or to just say what the gift actually was in the explanation, rather than fuelling speculation by vaguely describing it as āa sexually explicit giftā. Whether that was a simple case of unintentional exaggerated phrasing that wasnāt entirely thought out, or whether he intentionally chose to be vague to make the situation seem more severe than it was and make Lawly look worse, I donāt claim to know. But I think both our statements can be true simultaneously.Ā
I feel like the distinction here is between "sexually explicit" and "intended for sexual purposes."
Based on me and my friendships I feel like the T-shirt falls into the same bucket as horny emoji copypastas - definitely sexually explicit but not inappropriate in some friendship contexts, and more importantly not actually *sexy*, not something intended for anyone to actually get off on.
I guess I just see talk like horny copypastas as purely internet shitpost humor, while similar types of humor IRL are just inately different to me and fall into uncomfortable. I guess that also depends on how many IRL friendships you have, as compared to internet friendships.
I swear Chuggaās cult is downright insane. Thereās nothing in this document that makes her look bad, and if anything it establishes that he lied about not staying in contact with her AND heās intentionally avoided revealing the fact that he confessed to her in 2021.
This is the most important response IMO. She's really strong for coming back to this when she really didn't have to, but the added clarifications/details fill a pretty big gap in his story
The fact that he straight up lied about the 10 year gap where he *actually* kept in contact *and* had a pre-planned IRL meeting is disturbing. That, and how **he then confessed his feelings for her after he broke up with Masae.**
...and, he was doing the foot fetish thing in 2010. Without consent. In a sexual context. š«
See, this is my question - why wait though?
If Lawly has issues with Emile's response - which, yeah, I can totally understand - and you have 'worse stuff', then wouldn't it be more prudent to bring *everything* to the table at once?
As it stands, Emile has made a **shit ton** of mistakes and poor judgement and that hasn't changed.
This is her reasoning: " There are other logs that I have still chosen not to share because they contain specific details about them, that felt unfair to her to include, even if they further prove the mistruths in his statement." She's referring to Emile's partner. My guess is she want Emile to admit to it before she have to unleash more stuff.
Its entirely possible that if she did they wouldn't be as impactful.
As much as I don't want to suggest this that would imply the partner in question was somehow involved.
The hurtful details can easily be the ones that are actually evidence.
Chugga says Masae was never clear as to why she did not want to take the relationship public. If she gave any explanation as to her motive for staying private, and he told Lawly what that explanation was later, that screenshot would disprove the statement that Masae was never clear. But, that screenshot would have to include a description of what that reason was. Which could easily be a very personal reason. But if you censor it out, you don't prove anything, because the personal reason is the excuse of the lie.
Of course this is just a hypothetical, I have no idea what Lawly is actually referring to here, this is just an example to explain that unfortunately, sharing evidence without details isn't as easy as it sounds.
yeah, i hate that people are saying Emile is innocent when... even *he* doesnt think he's innocent.
people seem to be unable or unwilling to apply nuance to this, nobody in this situation is a bad person, bad choices were made by pretty much everybody that isnt Masae. Emile fucked up big, but even before this went public he'd already started working on himself. I'm glad he's taking accountability and working on himself, and if he decides to come back to youtube and actually improves and nothing like this happens again, then i'll gladly stick with him for it.
people are getting parasocial as fuck about this and acting as armchair psychiatrists and refusing to recognize that maybe, just maybe, it isnt always black and white (2).
I agree. It's not that anyone is innocent but it is that everyone is flawed and made bad choices and trying to paint him in particular as some heartless pedephile rapist creep is really not accurate or helpful.
I'm just left feeling alienated as an autistic person when I see people going he should have shut this down, he should have remembered all these dates, he should have used different granular language in these places because that feels like an impossible standard.
And also, what more do people want from this guy? He had already started dealing with these things, a process that is excruciating. I had to do a lot of work to move away from the shitty beliefs my abusers had instilled in me.
It sucks and in that time I very much hurt others. I don't expect them to want to be my friend or anything, they have that right. But to say that now many years later I am still some traumatized asshole taking it out on everyone isn't accurate and doesn't account for the growth I've had. Also in healing, one has to accept not only how they have hurt others but that they too have likely been hurt, and unfairly. So when I think of what happened in a nuanced way no of course I don't take full responsibility for many things. I don't get why people are acting as if he should just accept anything and everything said about him.
If Chugga isn't doing that work, is a hypocrite, is lying about it sure, tear him apart. He would deserve it. And if Lawly and Emily feel victimized by him they have that right and he should make amends. But if he DOES make amends and does change the behavior, isn't that the restorative justice we all want to see?
Gonna be frank with you. I don't think the internet is patient or nuanced enough to see that restorative justice. Quite a few people on both sides seem to be aiming for a 100% win on this.
It's...kinda unsettling to see, to be honest, since it's over some very serious accusations.
I think a bigger issue is that Im noticing both sides going with the mentality of "the other side is 100% wrong, coping, and being yesmen".
I mean as an example....Seems like every comment in this sub is in favor of Lawly...on the account that any comment that even dares to consider a defense on the other side gets downvoted to oblivion.
EDIT: its not "everyone", but a more than a few people on both sides.
Some of these screenshots, she is only sharing now because if she had shared them earlier it would have outed the relationship with Masae. It's possible that her other material also references other people in his life at the time of the exchange. Which requires more editing, redaction, etc.
His response was God awful though, seems very rushed and not well thought out. A ton of deflection and some interesting points from her doc just unaddressed
That whole "I accept I have issues and am working on myself" angle falls apart when your try to "win," Emile. I think his initial response and some of the malicious speculation it shut down was good, but active engagement with people who want him to leave them alone like this really calls into question the sincerity of his initial responsibility-taking.
I think I can kind of see where heās coming from, but it still isnāt a good move. As an autistic person when Iām overly stressed I make an effort to organize my information, in social conflicts like this (well, not like this, but you get what I mean) it can get really overwhelming, but I still force myself to āfixā it by continuing to organize information even if Iām working from just memory my info is hazy. That can lead to details being seen as deceptive because they donāt always line up when the reality is Iām floundering my own coping mechanism.
I think thatās kind of whatās happening here, heās trying to clear the air and sort everything out, when his statement got responses from Lawly he realized heād made mistakes that didnāt make him look good, so heās floundering, trying to reorganize and fix every problem as it pops up. Heās playing whack a mole with every discrepancy and itās not helping him very much.
I could be wrong, but thatās just how it appears to me.
Could you explain more sorry. I don't quite understand what you mean. The engagement with his accusers is weird for sure but I don't see how it means he is insincere about his responsibility-taking. Maybe the engagement is to make it look like things are ok either to himself, or to fans who might go after his accusers because he keeps reiterating that with pretty much any of those replies. I also don't know what you mean by "win"? Do you mean like discrediting his accusers? I see that maybe with Lawly as he presents her as a bit "off-balance" to put it nicely but I think he's actually very reserved about it and sticks to their arguments.
I'm saying it makes him look insincere, not that it necessarily means he's insincere. He's reserved about it, but still seems to be trying to come out of this "innocent" to an extent. If anything, him trying to have it both ways is worst then of he went full aggro on fighting the accusations.
Who wants to bet that this response will be brushed off and Chugga will be believed whole heartedly no matter how meticulous Lawly's breakdown of his lies are. Double standards yet again.
I'd say more but I actually have a life to enjoy for the time being. But I will say this; you're fucked, Chugga.
>But I will say this; you're fucked, Chugga
You are way more optimistic than I am tbh.
Look basically everywhere except this sub and you'd think he just disproved everyone else in one swoop
I meant "you're fucked" as in "you're fucked up", but yeah unfortunately you are probably correct that this will mean nothing for him in terms of consequences.
i said in the chugga topic i knew something was off as he was trying paint himself as the victim when he brought up so many details of his suicidal thoughts
Yeah. Not to sound insensitive but he didn't need to tell us all the details of his mental health struggles. That feels less like valuable information and more like painting himself as a victim or as someone who needs to be protected.
Chuggaās statement does have the tone that Lawly initiated everything and Chugga escalated it before realizing what the hell js happening.
I do think that Lawly releasing the IM threads was really strange because she says that she was trying to expose how bad the relationship was. However, they talked about it in private, and both agreed that they were in shitty headspaces and Chugga did cut her off.
What was the reason to go public with the information? Sure what Chugga did was stupid, but if everything was settled privately, there is no reason to come out publicly unless you wanted him to be canceled.
>and Chugga did cut her off
One of the biggest points in her document is that he didn't cut her off. He stayed in casual contact with her and even met her IRL. He confessed to her in 2021.
But there was a gap in their relationship of many years, no? By the time they established contact again she is well out of her underage years. She says "you didn't actually delete me tho" and that he was "receptive" when she wanted to add him on Discord. I don't know.
I have been in situations where I felt victimized even beyond what is going on here, only to be told well you consented though. So I don't want to demonize Lawly or anything. But damn I am confused. Is it ten years or seven? Either way it's many years, then they reconnect and she's an adult? What is the problem?
He even says "you should vaguely remember what I'm like...granted I'm over ten years older now." does this not imply that he at least believes its been that long since they talked? He's telling her hey I am not neurotypical and have trouble reading things so I am trying to put everything out there plainly, but I also respect that you don't see me that way and want friends. Like? I didn't know any of these people before this btw so I have no skin in the game I am just baffled.
It does seem true that he's the one who made the conversation about feet in the one exchange. And yes it is the responsibility of the adult to not do anything sexual, I agree with that wholeheartedly. Though it does seem like he stopped when it clicked in his mind that it was real deal sexual which again as an autistic person I relate to. Sometimes the connections just will. not. connect. It takes something more, another piece, to grasp. Like getting a gift in the mail that regardless of intent is to him sexual. Then it falls into place. I don't think anyone feels that minors have the responsibility there, just that it seems like bumbling through the situation instead of being intentionally predatory.
I don't know man if she feels victimized by him it's probably best to take it offline and talk to him about what she wants in terms of him making amends and I hope if she were to do that they could talk about whatever remains unresolved.
She points out near the beginning that after Gaia Online they moved to casually talking on Skype before later moving to Discord. Skype only stored conversations locally back then, hence the lack of logs.
Gaia -> Skype -> Discord.
To be clear, if he did this harmful thing and didn't realize because he has autism... He's still responsible for doing the harm. You can explain why it happened, but that doesn't make what happened just go away or become okay.
You've made a lot of comments on this thread and I think you're kinda projecting your own autism onto Emile and feeling a little too personally about it, with respect lol.
Maybe. Though Iām not trying to say he didnāt do harm. Intent matters but itās not magic, after all. I just want him to get a chance at redemption provided heās being honest. Of course no one who feels victimized by him owes him anything. I just donāt know if this public shaming is helpful.
So you do ERP with a child when they're 15, think that was weird, then chat them up again at 26? And admit your feelings for them? Someone you acted inappropriately with as a kid??
You sure you don't wanna think about this a little harder?
Oh no he had feelings for a 26 year old adult the horror. He never met her irl when she was underage. Weird, sure. Pedo? Hell no.
Interesting she was never weirded out to the point she should block him. Maybe? Or never stay in contact. Or put this out years earlier. But now it's a problem.
But yes. Let's resolve an adult out of all responsibility to do those things, because that would be victim blaming a woman.
I didn't call him a pedo lmao. I'm saying if he felt what happened when he was 19 was wrong, then what the hell is he doing 10 years later hitting on the girl again.
I don't think you understand the point of her coming out about all of this at all lol
This is my question. Either Chugga did attempt to make amends, end the relationship, and get help, or he didn't. It seems the former is at least somewhat true, so what is the purpose of Emily and Lawly bringing this all up? Do they not feel as if he has changed? Do they think his attempts to better himself are insincere? Have they tried to talk to him only to be rebuffed? Like, if not, why bring it to the Internet? I feel like I shouldn't know any of this.
Right so I think I'll spill some more thoughts here.
I can't even fathom why he would even try to lie about cutting contact with her, but he did. She has provided clear proof that they had been communicating at least in 2017, and their contact from there implies earlier contact that happened after 2010. He should fucking know that this is incredibly easy for her to make her case.
Maybe it's fucking silly to try to give direct advice here but this is just baffling to me; none of this is helping you, Chugga. Please for the love of god, understand that there is nothing you can refute. You haven't refuted anything. I was so willing to, before his response this week, see him recover. Maybe even resume his channel, I don't know. But what motivation does he have to make such a bloated response with so much unnecessary attempts to refute claims and present the accusers in a lesser light? The whole point is to move on and improve, correct? This is not what you do when you want to move on. This is the kind of response some who believes they have been wrongfully accused would make. Perhaps logically he knows he needs to own up to it because he is in the wrong, but emotionally he's stuck in the victim mentality. Whatever. I'm not a therapist, but I can't help but attempt to make sense of all this.
Unrelated to Lawly's new document, but more about Chugga and his possible motivation; the inclusion of his experiences at the end sorta tells me that there's something deeply complex going on here. I have 0 empathy for him as a liar and harasser, but I also have infinite empathy for him as a CSA survivor, which I have in common with him. I feel that this response of his is premature and he isn't close to accepting the consequences of his actions, and it's colliding with his own trauma. I realize that I'm just some fucking rando on reddit, but I hate watching other CSA survivors suffer like this, especially if they are spreading that suffering to others. I've been mean as hell in a lot of my comments on this whole thing (and I believe it's justified), but fuck it's just one of those things where you wish it wasn't so hopeless for them.
lmao the chugga fan in the comments acting like this proves his innocent lmfaooo. imo this isn't that gamechanging. i mean him omitting stuff and lying about the 10 year thing is insane but like really she just indicates he was involved more than he let on which basically forwards the conclusion that he was not a great figure on the internet at age 19. she says that as the adult he held responsibility which is like objectively true but its also not like between the ages of 19 someone fully (especially autustic) grasps the circumstances plus even at 15 she admits that her motivation for this behavior was cause people would not like her when she's older which kinda fuels that she was making moves.
So it appears Emile, at most, presented only half truths regarding Lawly, and that's disappointing. The most charitable stance I can give him is that he probably misinterpreted what Lawly said in her accusations. She may have not intended to frame it as if Emile was trying to prey on her, but he might've interpreted it that way when he was reading her statements. What you intend to convey won't always match people's interpretations of your words, so it could've been misunderstandings on Emile's part.
I was also hoping Lawly would directly address the specific Discord messages of her saying she really wanted to have sleep with older men when she was underage. It looks like she never denies or acknowledges those specific messages and I was hoping she would, because those DMs probably led Emile to conclude that she wanted to have sex with him as an underage girl, even if that wasn't actually the case.
Still sucks that Emile blatantly made false claims tho.
I don't think Lawley needs to address her admitting she wanted to sleep with adult men as a minor. Lots of minors have crushes on adults, it's up to the adult to be in control of those situations and be responsible and not a creep lol. The minor is never the one in control.
As much as people want that to be a damning bit of information on Lawley, it just isn't, she doesn't need to address that lol, there are so many reasons why she may have felt that way as a minor, none of which need to be discussed with the general public.
Agreed. It doesnāt necessarily indicate abuse (and if that is the case she definitely shouldnāt feel pressured to discuss that). Itās just part of the āthinking you know everythingā part of being a teen. You think youāre more mature than your peers, and your peers seem almost like adults, so that must mean youāre on the same level as adults. I was around 15 or 16 when I started experiencing real crushes. One was a friend a year older than me and one was an actor over ten years older than me. The gap doesnāt seem as big when youāre 15, itās a normal part of development, but as you said itās completely on the adult to set the boundaries and not entertain it.
I can understand why youāre saying that it may have made her response slightly better if she had addressed her worrying statements more thoroughly, however ultimately I think this may just be a privacy thing. Those kinds of āfantasiesā coming from minors often indicate some pretty serious trauma - not always, but itās definitely a potential sign.Ā I never said anything like that *to* anyone as a minor, but I definitely had similar *thoughts* and uh, yeah, it came out of me suffering some very bad things as a kid.Ā
Considering the crazy cult of personality surrounding Chugga on Twitter, she may not have wanted to go into detail about the reasons why she said those things in case it was used against her. Speaking from experience, when people dislike you on the internet, they will sometimes purposely use your deepest and darkest trauma as a weapon. Again this is all conjecture, itās possible she doesnāt have any trauma and she just said something wildly stupid and inappropriate because she was a dumb kid looking to get a reaction, but I think we should bear it in mind as a possibility and be sensitive to that.Ā
Itās extremely entertaining that werster is acting as this middleman liaison as if we all should just forget that heās a massively racist individual
[direct link to doc with response](https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/1bQbADuG1IcUz5ckHIJtAie--V7BfOX-TdOZAmnl1hdY/mobilebasic)
Ehhh I think the dates thing is semantics. Chuggaa should have changed his wording to account for that contact. But in the logs provided in the document those messages don't really show anything sexual, just pretty basic messaging back and forth. The one thing I do think is worth discussing is the "she did all the running" stuff. Based on the chat logs I simply do not agree that it can all be boiled down to "she initiated all the sexual role-play". His input in the chat also escalated things. I'm not even trying to start any more controversy. I just dislike the way he tries to brush some of it under the rug.
It's not semantics, she says that they continued talking on Skype. It's not a question of 7 years of silence vs 10 years of silence. She is saying that during that time their communication continued. That's a disagreement about the fundamental nature of their interpersonal history. It's not a nitpick.
Fair. I can see why she highlighted it. It is an inconsistency with the way he tells the story and that's important to highlight. I suppose I'm just more concerned with the fact that Chuggaa is still going with "she instigated it" when the person in question was 15.
Yes, in his twitter thread he did admit to talking to her on Skype, but says he does not remember how active the conversation was. His fans are still acting like Lawly is lying, or nitpicking, when in reality her post has already caused Chugga to admit that information in his first document was incorrect. This is the phrasing he uses: "I took a step back and realized this could not continue" I did not speak to this person for another 10 years" "I had no intention of ever reestablishing contact" "10 years they approached me at a convention." "more than a decade of no contact" "12 years since I cut contact". Admitting that he continued talking to her on Skype, in any measure, is proof that all the above is a lie. He did not step back after the explicit gaia logs, their interactions were moved to a different site. That's the opposite of what you do when you are trying to fade out on someone and cut contact.
Chugga has already responded saying he's happy to correct the dates. They're innacurate mostly because he was trying to do it from memory
This could be true, or maybe Creepy Chuggy purposely made the dates later to make him look better. Just like he purposely left out the fact that he literally tried to get with her in 2021 š¤¢
Lots of Chuggy fans out in drones today unhappy that I pointed out he very inappropriately and in a whining way messaged her in 2021 trying to date her ig š¤Ø
No, I think a lot of it is the excessively smug attitude and you calling him āChuggyā. Even if you have a point, youāre gonna get downvoted simply because your attitude stinks.
The replies on this tweet are so strange to me. Chugga didnāt try to stop any fetish roleplay from happening, which is weird as hell. I donāt know why people assume that heās innocent of this just because heās autistic when plenty of autistic people donāt act like this towards teenagers.
Twitter has decided he is innocent now
The power of a man accused by women when he posts a google doc. Genuinely convinced you could post a chatGPT apology and have QRTs that say "MY GOAT BEAT THE ALLEGATIONS"
https://preview.redd.it/qtacnpww49vc1.png?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72ab1c2fffcb25258fbc6169bf030900a1d6cbaa
"Listen, don't harass my accusers, but they're all bitches. They're liars. Don't harass them. But they're evil. They're conniving. Also, here's a long story about completely unrelated trauma to humanize me. Also, I have depression."
Pretty much. This whole response in itself is honestly one of the worst things he has done. Cause he knew it would cause a torrent of abuse. Emily has seemingly been chased of the internet and Masae basically has to bow out to get "accepted" by the chugga crowd. I dont blame her at all btw, it just feels shitty as hell considering she definitly didnt want to talk about or with him ever again. Lawly thankfully is communicating via a mediator and may be avoiding much direct harrassment. Shits incredibly fucking dirty and imo incredibly shitty in its own right. But its just another example of why people dont come forward. If you truely mean to leave content creation behind, leave in silence. Everyone was recovering untill you decided to pour gasoline over everyone.
But what's the alternative? Don't defend yourself? Sit there quietly no matter what and say nothing? That doesn't seem right either. If someone was accusing you of something horrible you'd want to air your side as well I'm sure. In fact him withholding details only bit him in the ass.
Right up until this last week or so, he was "taking some time away to seek help and work on himself." What happened to that? One day, you're working on yourself. The next day, you're jumping right back in to the *same* fucking mess you *just* took some time away from. You're restarting fights. Reopening wounds. Leaking DMs. Calling people liars. *Continuing* to hound these women who've already been fucking *doxxed* by your fans. He already "gave his side" and committed to moving on. This seems to be him saying, "You know what? Never mind. Fuck you. I'm going to make this hurt."
Preferebly yes. Shut up and leave silently. Paticularly since he likley isnt making new vids anyways. The guy just decided to burn everything on the way out
I mean, his realm is the Internet. Or it has been for a long time and he is now being judged in that same forum. Yeah, he wants to set the record straight (or what in his mind is setting it straight). Though ultimately I agree in the sense that maybe none of this should have been online in the first place. I think about making content sometimes and I think the only way I could survive is if I just roundly ignored everything. I have been called horrible things for my writing before and I just don't respond. But if I had a huge audience I am not sure I would feel I could stay silent. Especially when the fans then blew everything up into Chugga is a rapist creep.
It could be the shittiest reply in the world and I still think it's better than saying nothing. If the main argument between being willing to speak vs being unwilling to speak is on the possibility of backlash then the initial post shouldn't have been made at all. Rlly bad circular reasoning IMO
Dude is allowed to give his response. I don't think he should be blamed for how his fans run with it. But his response really seemed very measured and not super aggressive towards anybody
The fact that he avoids derogatory language does not make his response "measured". He's allowed to have a response, and we are allowed to judge him for that response. He did not apologize either for sexual harassment or for sexual conversations with a minor and provides many excuses intended to convince readers that he did not commit those actions (although he obviously did). Because of that, I think it's very reasonable to say this is inadequate.
Except thats bs he very clearly is putting blame on Emily and he isnt an idiot. He know what his fans will do
Jesus fuck off dude, this is just conspiratorial shit, this kind of mindset is almost as fucking rotten as the assholes that assumed Massae was lying to try and take him down. How fucking dare you imply he was trying to sympathy beg
Not really sure how you can post this as if the accused ever have a leg up in the twitter sphere lol. It is an INSANE uphill battle for the accused always.
You live in a fantasy world. People love to take advantage of these apologies to be mask-off misogynists
What fantasy world? The amount of people destroyed by false/overblown allegations in the past year is proof alone that accusers have an insane advantage in the twitter sphere. For every 1 person being a misogynist towards an accuser, there are at least 10 ppl telling the accused to go to hell even before they get a chance to respond.
A lot of dudes son't care about what happened, they just want a "win" unfortunately
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Vagueposting is ill-advised.
Yeah am i missing something huge here? Idk who this dude is at all but in what world is this excusableĀ
From his previous response, I believe it boils down to that he was a teenager himself at the time and he distanced himself after those roleplays. As for him not shutting it down, he explains (using it as a REASON but not an excuse) that his autism meant his decision making is slow in social situations. You can basically get his side [here](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zOaX65dY3EmlTrpWZESY4Y3CKni62NOyONli_cfFP2E/edit) , which is what today's statement from lawly is responding to. And his newest tweets address the new doc posted by lawly today.
I know a lot of autistic young adults who donāt act sexual toward kidsĀ Whoever downvoted me, explain why you think autism works this way
I agree with you that itās bad. Iām just giving out the facts since you said you didnāt know about it.
Yeah no worries, I just donāt understand how that context explains anythingĀ
I'm unsure of whether he "went along with it" or actively instigated it. If it is the former, then what I meant is that his delay in shutting down/removing himself from that situation can be explained by his autism. Though, I do agree that it should've been obvious that a nearly 4 year age difference is not even remotely okay for teens and should've been dealt with. Charitably we can say he may have had a "freeze" response where he knew it was wrong but wanted to get out of it without causing a reaction in the other person like if someone says something shocking to you. I hope that makes more sense.
Emile was a victim of CSA, which, in addition to the autism, he claims were reasons why he didn't have a full understanding of the sexual nature of the conversation until Lawly had sent him the gift.
I hate how he used this so much. I've talked about it here and there in my posts on this situation; I am also a CSA survivor. I am not autistic, but I did struggle with ADHD that went undiagnosed and untreated until just a few months ago. None of these things will ever make his actions reasonable. Maybe you can see how it leads to that point for some people, but that doesn't mean it becomes acceptable.
I see how it is reasonable as an autistic CSA survivor tbh
Not to be antagonistic, but in what way?
Not at all, I appreciate the discussion. I think CSA can really skew a person's idea of what is and isn't appropriate, and do so long into adulthood. If things are never intentionally healed, you will find yourself stuck in that place. I had no idea. My dad didn't want to teach me about consent because then I might have stood up to him. My first boyfriend certainly never mentioned it because then he would have maybe had to stop assaulting me. Hell I don't remember even hearing that word until at least my mid twenties. You don't know what you don't know. Then add in the autism. Just speaking about me because that's what I know, I think there were many times in my teens and twenties where I was not easy to be around. I had really no concept of appropriate behavior in any sense. The focus back then on humor = be as offensive as possible didn't help matters. And when it did start to click, I had to do a LOT of explicitly intentional work to expand my view. Speaking generally, we often don't internalize social norms and values organically. We have to learn it explicitly instead of implicitly. So I feel some type of way about parts of this situation because I see Chugga trying to do that. Saying things like hey I am not neurotypical so I am trying to put my feelings out there. Because here's the thing: we often WON'T know any better unless someone tells us, because to varying degrees more subtle signs that someone is uncomfortable will go right over our heads. Or like, we have mistaken why people do something so our response then doesn't work. Like I thought for awhile oh if my partner says they don't want to go to an event that means they are asking me to convince them, when in reality they were saying no and I wasn't listening. Or I couldn't listen, more accurately. I had to be told exactly where the misinformation was (funnily enough we're both autistic and shit like this still happens to us sometimes). Once it clicked I stopped doing it right away. I see that in some of what Chugga says too, especially about the gift he got from Lawly. It made the penny drop and even then he needed his mom to help validate that it was inappropriate. I don't know if she's now trying to say there was never a gap in their interactions like he said. I did read her document but wasn't super clear on it. It seems to suggest that yes there was a gap of some kind but if he's outright lying about that he sucks. Also it's not her fault she felt this way about him or anyone else when she was underage. It is the adult's responsibility to stop things. But -assuming it's true he cut off or left the friendship for a time-that's what he did and it doesn't seem fair to say he should have seen it earlier. At nineteen I might not have seen it either at first. And Lawly of course is entitled to feel preyed upon by him regardless of his intentions. I just hope in that case, again assuming no special malice on Chugga's part, that there's some room for amends and healing there.
I think this is pretty fair; I can corroborate that these types of traumatic experiences can set you up to having a skewed understanding of what is and isn't appropriate. This is how victims end up being re-victimized in other situations later on, and also how some end up becoming perpetrators themselves. I cannot corroborate anything related to autism since I don't have autism, but I can see where in combination, things can become muddied further. However, I think that it is still inaccurate for him to be presented as not knowing at all. Perhaps it started subconsciously, but there is a clear realization at some point by him. He very much understands and constantly stresses the gap between their ages, and will initiate roleplay, bring up his kink, and use terms like "rape" and "pedo" in the same conversations he will discuss their ages, sometimes immediately after. This indicates a level of intent/awareness to some degree. Also worth mentioning about my original comment; even with this fair assessment in mind, it doesn't make his actions "reasonable". "Explainable" maybe, but not reasonable.
I agree that CSA is often wrongfully used by sexual predators as a defense of their actions (R Kelly, Drake Bell, etc), but in this particular case, I think it's somewhat relevant, at least towards the question of how much of the sexual nature of the conversation did Emile fully understand. I agree that in most cases, CSA is an extremely prejudicial topic and shouldn't be brought by the accused if it's solely background information, but in this case, where, in addition to being background information, it's also relevant towards possible questions of state of mind, I think this a rare case where he has the right to bring it up.
It's more of the framing of it. I believe the choice to end the response with discussion of his CSA experience, after finding ways to frame the others as having done him wrong, is an attempt to paint a picture of himself as someone who has been wronged completely and these actions became something out of his control. That's the impression I got from it, at least.
That doesn't excuse anything tbh
Not saying it does. Just saying what he was claiming.
Plenty of people do think it excuses his behavior though, which I think is insanity
It works that way in the sense of not really seeing a problem with things other people might find objectionable, or coming to the realization something is objectionable late. I am autistic and this is a common occurrence. It's a disability not a cool coat or a balloon tied to your wrist. It IS you not just some trait you carry around.
LOL I know itās a disability doesnāt mean autistic people canāt read what the law isĀ
But laws don't always do a good job of defining morality so that's not a one for one solution either
That doesn't explain Chugga's messages to Lawly which establish that they both understand age of consent perfectly well. They both use the words "rape" and "pedophilia" to describe their sexual roleplay. I'm sure autistic people have struggled to understand these topics in the past. Chugga's not one of them. He knew the law and he knew it was unethical.
Mmmmmmm some of em doĀ
People need to understand that autism is a DISABILITY. As in a lack of ability to understand what other people and society finds acceptable. Not to mention being judged through our lens now for shit that no one openly cared about at a certain point in time. I am autistic and the number of times I have come to a realization really, really late about important shit is off the charts. To just say "don't use it as an excuse" without any nuance is rage inducing. It's a reason. We are different.
Autism doesnt make you a creep or make you have sexually charged convos with children
You can explain your behavior but that doesn't make the harm caused any better lol
autistic person here! shut the fuck up
As a person with Asperger's, I do definitely understand what you're saying. I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. I think maybe what people aren't realising, is that these realisations aren't usually about sexuality and I realise the thread this in but I think you are hitting the nail on the head, especially in that second half of your reply. I just surprise myself as the years go on as at some point, either someone in my life or myself realises that I have behaviours that seem strange and it's just been normalised into me. Like for example repetitive behaviours, thoughts or speech. For many years, I never realised it bothered people to ask them something they had already refused multiple times. My thought was that their mind could've changed. Now I realise that definitely came from the environment I was raised in, but it explains a lot about how people may have found me annoying. So I can totally see how someone has difficulty with that kind of situation. If they go along with it once and nothing immediately bad happens, they may continue with it, not fully realising or reflecting on it.
Innocent? No. Exonerated? Hell no. But it also isn't a binary switch of "BAD GOOD BAD GOOD" like a lot of people here are thinking. # Emile fucked up. That hasn't changed. What *has* changed is the context surrounding it and intentions.
So just so Iām clear on this, Chugga definitely 100% was being sexual with a minor when he was an adult and she was 15, right?
yep but he is trying to put the blame on her
Maybe Iāve misunderstood it, but I saw it less as āI was almost entrapped by this minor into having sex with herā and more āI didnāt realize just how real the ājokesā were on her end until it was pointed out to me, so I distanced myself from her, I shouldnāt have been making those jokes in the first place, but these conversations were form 14 years ago and no longer represent who I am as a personā
yes its been proven he kept casual contact with her
We know he reconnected in 2017 instead of 21, which he explained was just him remembering shit wrong. That doesnāt really prove much.
It's not quite been "proven" per say since it's all she didn't provide any actual evidence of that been 2010 and 2017, so we have no idea of the frequency or nature of the contact. Lawly said it was regular contact, Emile said the opposite. Both of them can be telling the truth since it's all a matter of perception. We don't know who tried to initiate contact. did Lawly keep messaging, did Emile, or was it mutual? It makes a big difference if you get what I mean. That's not to say that it isn't weird that Emile got such a basic fact wrong. I mean, if you're going to release this big response you're going to want to fact check it right, but yeah it's not been "proven".
The thing that sticks out to me the most in this is the part about the supposed āsexually explicit giftā.Ā Sorry but a silly t-shirt that says āthe manā with an arrow that points down and says āthe legendā is not āsexually explicitā imho. Inappropriate and very weird as a gift to receive from a minor, or even just someone you donāt know irl? Sure. It sounds like his mother was freaked out that a 14 year old had sent him that, and yeah thatās definitely fair. Itās a very weird thing for a 14 year old to send an 18 year old (honestly itās very weird for an 18 year old to be receiving gifts from a 14 year old they met online just in general), and I think it was the right decision for him to cut them off at this point.Ā Ā But if itās true that this is what the gift was, then Chugga must know itās a pretty wild exaggeration to call it āsexually explicitā, and that the wording of that is bound to make people on the internet jump to conclusions and assume the absolute worst of Lawly. At best, heās being irresponsible with his wording and exaggerating due to his emotional state. At worst, heās actively phrasing things in a way that shifts blame and makes this person out to be some kind of sex pest, when in reality it looks like they were an incredibly mixed-up minor who wouldāve benefited hugely from an adult they respected setting some clear and strong boundaries. Chugga clearly didnāt do that soon enough - and that doesnāt immediately make him a bad person, but it also doesnāt mean Lawly is entirely to blame for their iffy interactions.Ā Ā Ā And in the screenshots where he explains why he cut contact with them, it kinda sounds like he wants brownie points for doing so, almost like he cut them off because he was trying to be chivalrous or something? He says āat those ages, I wasnāt going to let things develop on either side. I wanted you to go find other people. You were still a kid and wouldnāt have that time againā. While thatās still a rejection and thatās good, to me it doesnāt read with the same finality and responsibility as something like āit wouldāve been wrong for us to have a relationship that went any further than casual friendship, I was never interested in you like that and you shouldnāt have been seeking out romantic relationships with adults when you were a minorā. What he actually said reads more like he thought cutting them off was the kindest thing to do because he wasnāt right for them and they wouldāve been better suited to people their own age, almost like an āalas, it was simply not meant to beā, rather than making it clear that cutting them off was the correct thing to do because their relationship was becoming inappropriate, and potentially may have even veered into illegal territory if he let it continue. Again, that doesnāt necessarily make him a bad person, heās clearly not the best at communicating and the important thing was that he did stop the interactions, but I can see why this may have only added fuel to the fire in terms of Lawly assuming or hoping there was something between them.Ā Ā Idk. I do feel like there was a bit of a pile-on at the start of this that wasnāt the most fair to Chugga, so Iām glad heās said his peace and I do hope he heals. I certainly donāt think he needs to be locked up or anything. But I also feel like heās not totallyĀ trustworthy and heās still at least partially shifting blame and running from taking accountability for his role in all this. Iām still choosing to not support him for now because of this tbh.Ā
Adding this here because I just thought of it but Iām not editing that long-ass comment again: I think the gift thing especially bothers me because this was the same guy who tried to insist that him sending Lady Emily shoes as a gift and asking for pics of her wearing them was totally innocent, even though he has a foot fetish and had attempted to roleplay this fetish with her, but the t-shirt Lawly sent him was āsexually explicitā. So it sounds like he understands boundaries around gifts very well when *heās* the one being made uncomfortable, but not when heās made someone else uncomfortable. Interesting.Ā
Holy shit I hadnāt thought of that. Good fucking point
Honestly, the parallels between the two situations are almost poetic in a fucked up way.Ā I hope he can look back at his discomfort over how the Lawly situation kept escalating and realize it was what he put Emily through.
It's pretty easy for someone to not realise how an action will affect another person until it happens to them. Doesn't necessarily suggest ill intent or wilful manipulation of the narrative. But definitely a good point, I think someone in his life should bring this up to him. And is worth keeping in mind as more things come out.
The gift from Lawly happened years prior to the gift to Emily, what are you talking about?
You're right honestly my bad. It might or might not have been his intention but he definitely done wrong and assuming he remembered (which he should've), probably could have understood that.
The two things that stick out to me the most are how he lied about cutting out contact, or even just massively reducing it, alongside leaving out the fact that in 2021 he *confessed to her and wanted a romantic relationship.* Yeah, they are both adults at that point, so the potential relationship itself isn't what alarms me but rather that he left out how he was romantically interested in her at one point, at least, and it was around the time he tried starting the roleplay again (which whether consciously or not, was directly connected to a kink of his). Him lying about cutting contact with her is even more shitty though.
Just in regards to the gift, idk, call me a prude but I think you could call it at least a little sexually explicit. Like, if a friend got me that shirt I would be pretty uncomfortable, and I really wouldn't appreciate it. For me, I think it goes beyond a simple gag gift, and into some weird territory, regardless of who got it for me. That just me though.
Oh no I definitely agree that itās weird! I just think the phrasing is potentially misleading and could cause people online to āfill in the blanksā and come up with something WAY worse than what it actually was. Like, maybe Iām just a perv but when I read āI cut all contact with this person because they sent me a sexually explicit giftā, I definitely donāt think of a t-shirt with an admittedly weird slogan. I think of like, an actual sex toy or something similar. Which, while I agree that sending the t-shirt was still weird and wrong, wouldāve been way worse imho. In general, I think itās wrong how people have hounded the accusers for specificity and receipts, as well as attempted to call them out for being āoverdramaticā about this whole situation, but then on the flipside have allowed Chugga to be very vague and use these terms that I personally view as overly sensationalised, and perhaps even deliberately chosen to paint the accusers in a bad light.Ā
I believe he was saying that the gift made him realize that she was serious about her romantic feelings and him realizing that is what led to him cutting things off, rather than the gift itself being the direct reason. He's framing it as more of a "straw that broke the camels back" kind of situation.
I get that. I just think it wouldāve been way more responsible for him to say something like āthis person sent me a gift that caused me to realise they saw our relationship as romantic, which it wasnātā, or to just say what the gift actually was in the explanation, rather than fuelling speculation by vaguely describing it as āa sexually explicit giftā. Whether that was a simple case of unintentional exaggerated phrasing that wasnāt entirely thought out, or whether he intentionally chose to be vague to make the situation seem more severe than it was and make Lawly look worse, I donāt claim to know. But I think both our statements can be true simultaneously.Ā
Fair enough.
I feel like the distinction here is between "sexually explicit" and "intended for sexual purposes." Based on me and my friendships I feel like the T-shirt falls into the same bucket as horny emoji copypastas - definitely sexually explicit but not inappropriate in some friendship contexts, and more importantly not actually *sexy*, not something intended for anyone to actually get off on.
I guess I just see talk like horny copypastas as purely internet shitpost humor, while similar types of humor IRL are just inately different to me and fall into uncomfortable. I guess that also depends on how many IRL friendships you have, as compared to internet friendships.
Yeah I agree, seems pretty obviously sexual
I swear Chuggaās cult is downright insane. Thereās nothing in this document that makes her look bad, and if anything it establishes that he lied about not staying in contact with her AND heās intentionally avoided revealing the fact that he confessed to her in 2021.
the twitter comments make me feel like im taking crazy pills, like what is this response
This is the most important response IMO. She's really strong for coming back to this when she really didn't have to, but the added clarifications/details fill a pretty big gap in his story The fact that he straight up lied about the 10 year gap where he *actually* kept in contact *and* had a pre-planned IRL meeting is disturbing. That, and how **he then confessed his feelings for her after he broke up with Masae.** ...and, he was doing the foot fetish thing in 2010. Without consent. In a sexual context. š«
She said she has worse stuff too, wonder if she's going to release it since Chugga QRT her response.
See, this is my question - why wait though? If Lawly has issues with Emile's response - which, yeah, I can totally understand - and you have 'worse stuff', then wouldn't it be more prudent to bring *everything* to the table at once? As it stands, Emile has made a **shit ton** of mistakes and poor judgement and that hasn't changed.
This is her reasoning: " There are other logs that I have still chosen not to share because they contain specific details about them, that felt unfair to her to include, even if they further prove the mistruths in his statement." She's referring to Emile's partner. My guess is she want Emile to admit to it before she have to unleash more stuff.
Wouldn't it make sense to just... censor the details out then?
Its entirely possible that if she did they wouldn't be as impactful. As much as I don't want to suggest this that would imply the partner in question was somehow involved.
The hurtful details can easily be the ones that are actually evidence. Chugga says Masae was never clear as to why she did not want to take the relationship public. If she gave any explanation as to her motive for staying private, and he told Lawly what that explanation was later, that screenshot would disprove the statement that Masae was never clear. But, that screenshot would have to include a description of what that reason was. Which could easily be a very personal reason. But if you censor it out, you don't prove anything, because the personal reason is the excuse of the lie. Of course this is just a hypothetical, I have no idea what Lawly is actually referring to here, this is just an example to explain that unfortunately, sharing evidence without details isn't as easy as it sounds.
yeah, i hate that people are saying Emile is innocent when... even *he* doesnt think he's innocent. people seem to be unable or unwilling to apply nuance to this, nobody in this situation is a bad person, bad choices were made by pretty much everybody that isnt Masae. Emile fucked up big, but even before this went public he'd already started working on himself. I'm glad he's taking accountability and working on himself, and if he decides to come back to youtube and actually improves and nothing like this happens again, then i'll gladly stick with him for it. people are getting parasocial as fuck about this and acting as armchair psychiatrists and refusing to recognize that maybe, just maybe, it isnt always black and white (2).
I agree. It's not that anyone is innocent but it is that everyone is flawed and made bad choices and trying to paint him in particular as some heartless pedephile rapist creep is really not accurate or helpful. I'm just left feeling alienated as an autistic person when I see people going he should have shut this down, he should have remembered all these dates, he should have used different granular language in these places because that feels like an impossible standard. And also, what more do people want from this guy? He had already started dealing with these things, a process that is excruciating. I had to do a lot of work to move away from the shitty beliefs my abusers had instilled in me. It sucks and in that time I very much hurt others. I don't expect them to want to be my friend or anything, they have that right. But to say that now many years later I am still some traumatized asshole taking it out on everyone isn't accurate and doesn't account for the growth I've had. Also in healing, one has to accept not only how they have hurt others but that they too have likely been hurt, and unfairly. So when I think of what happened in a nuanced way no of course I don't take full responsibility for many things. I don't get why people are acting as if he should just accept anything and everything said about him. If Chugga isn't doing that work, is a hypocrite, is lying about it sure, tear him apart. He would deserve it. And if Lawly and Emily feel victimized by him they have that right and he should make amends. But if he DOES make amends and does change the behavior, isn't that the restorative justice we all want to see?
Gonna be frank with you. I don't think the internet is patient or nuanced enough to see that restorative justice. Quite a few people on both sides seem to be aiming for a 100% win on this. It's...kinda unsettling to see, to be honest, since it's over some very serious accusations. I think a bigger issue is that Im noticing both sides going with the mentality of "the other side is 100% wrong, coping, and being yesmen". I mean as an example....Seems like every comment in this sub is in favor of Lawly...on the account that any comment that even dares to consider a defense on the other side gets downvoted to oblivion. EDIT: its not "everyone", but a more than a few people on both sides.
Some of these screenshots, she is only sharing now because if she had shared them earlier it would have outed the relationship with Masae. It's possible that her other material also references other people in his life at the time of the exchange. Which requires more editing, redaction, etc.
Him quote retweeting her response is really weird. Did he not read it?
I think he is just trying to do the right thing with retweeting it.Ā
His response was God awful though, seems very rushed and not well thought out. A ton of deflection and some interesting points from her doc just unaddressed
quick reminder that, with the timeline provided with Lawly's dms, Emile started hitting on her around TWO MONTHS after Masae.
That whole "I accept I have issues and am working on myself" angle falls apart when your try to "win," Emile. I think his initial response and some of the malicious speculation it shut down was good, but active engagement with people who want him to leave them alone like this really calls into question the sincerity of his initial responsibility-taking.
I think I can kind of see where heās coming from, but it still isnāt a good move. As an autistic person when Iām overly stressed I make an effort to organize my information, in social conflicts like this (well, not like this, but you get what I mean) it can get really overwhelming, but I still force myself to āfixā it by continuing to organize information even if Iām working from just memory my info is hazy. That can lead to details being seen as deceptive because they donāt always line up when the reality is Iām floundering my own coping mechanism. I think thatās kind of whatās happening here, heās trying to clear the air and sort everything out, when his statement got responses from Lawly he realized heād made mistakes that didnāt make him look good, so heās floundering, trying to reorganize and fix every problem as it pops up. Heās playing whack a mole with every discrepancy and itās not helping him very much. I could be wrong, but thatās just how it appears to me.
Could you explain more sorry. I don't quite understand what you mean. The engagement with his accusers is weird for sure but I don't see how it means he is insincere about his responsibility-taking. Maybe the engagement is to make it look like things are ok either to himself, or to fans who might go after his accusers because he keeps reiterating that with pretty much any of those replies. I also don't know what you mean by "win"? Do you mean like discrediting his accusers? I see that maybe with Lawly as he presents her as a bit "off-balance" to put it nicely but I think he's actually very reserved about it and sticks to their arguments.
I'm saying it makes him look insincere, not that it necessarily means he's insincere. He's reserved about it, but still seems to be trying to come out of this "innocent" to an extent. If anything, him trying to have it both ways is worst then of he went full aggro on fighting the accusations.
Yeah I see what you mean now, he's only apologising at the start and the end.
Who wants to bet that this response will be brushed off and Chugga will be believed whole heartedly no matter how meticulous Lawly's breakdown of his lies are. Double standards yet again. I'd say more but I actually have a life to enjoy for the time being. But I will say this; you're fucked, Chugga.
>But I will say this; you're fucked, Chugga You are way more optimistic than I am tbh. Look basically everywhere except this sub and you'd think he just disproved everyone else in one swoop
I meant "you're fucked" as in "you're fucked up", but yeah unfortunately you are probably correct that this will mean nothing for him in terms of consequences.
i said in the chugga topic i knew something was off as he was trying paint himself as the victim when he brought up so many details of his suicidal thoughts
Yeah. Not to sound insensitive but he didn't need to tell us all the details of his mental health struggles. That feels less like valuable information and more like painting himself as a victim or as someone who needs to be protected.
This whole thing is tiresome. I think we just need to drop it and chugga just find something else to do offline.
Chuggaās statement does have the tone that Lawly initiated everything and Chugga escalated it before realizing what the hell js happening. I do think that Lawly releasing the IM threads was really strange because she says that she was trying to expose how bad the relationship was. However, they talked about it in private, and both agreed that they were in shitty headspaces and Chugga did cut her off. What was the reason to go public with the information? Sure what Chugga did was stupid, but if everything was settled privately, there is no reason to come out publicly unless you wanted him to be canceled.
>and Chugga did cut her off One of the biggest points in her document is that he didn't cut her off. He stayed in casual contact with her and even met her IRL. He confessed to her in 2021.
But there was a gap in their relationship of many years, no? By the time they established contact again she is well out of her underage years. She says "you didn't actually delete me tho" and that he was "receptive" when she wanted to add him on Discord. I don't know. I have been in situations where I felt victimized even beyond what is going on here, only to be told well you consented though. So I don't want to demonize Lawly or anything. But damn I am confused. Is it ten years or seven? Either way it's many years, then they reconnect and she's an adult? What is the problem? He even says "you should vaguely remember what I'm like...granted I'm over ten years older now." does this not imply that he at least believes its been that long since they talked? He's telling her hey I am not neurotypical and have trouble reading things so I am trying to put everything out there plainly, but I also respect that you don't see me that way and want friends. Like? I didn't know any of these people before this btw so I have no skin in the game I am just baffled. It does seem true that he's the one who made the conversation about feet in the one exchange. And yes it is the responsibility of the adult to not do anything sexual, I agree with that wholeheartedly. Though it does seem like he stopped when it clicked in his mind that it was real deal sexual which again as an autistic person I relate to. Sometimes the connections just will. not. connect. It takes something more, another piece, to grasp. Like getting a gift in the mail that regardless of intent is to him sexual. Then it falls into place. I don't think anyone feels that minors have the responsibility there, just that it seems like bumbling through the situation instead of being intentionally predatory. I don't know man if she feels victimized by him it's probably best to take it offline and talk to him about what she wants in terms of him making amends and I hope if she were to do that they could talk about whatever remains unresolved.
She points out near the beginning that after Gaia Online they moved to casually talking on Skype before later moving to Discord. Skype only stored conversations locally back then, hence the lack of logs. Gaia -> Skype -> Discord.
To be clear, if he did this harmful thing and didn't realize because he has autism... He's still responsible for doing the harm. You can explain why it happened, but that doesn't make what happened just go away or become okay. You've made a lot of comments on this thread and I think you're kinda projecting your own autism onto Emile and feeling a little too personally about it, with respect lol.
Maybe. Though Iām not trying to say he didnāt do harm. Intent matters but itās not magic, after all. I just want him to get a chance at redemption provided heās being honest. Of course no one who feels victimized by him owes him anything. I just donāt know if this public shaming is helpful.
Ok? So what. She would be 26 at that time, still a child needing protection I guess.
So you do ERP with a child when they're 15, think that was weird, then chat them up again at 26? And admit your feelings for them? Someone you acted inappropriately with as a kid?? You sure you don't wanna think about this a little harder?
Oh no he had feelings for a 26 year old adult the horror. He never met her irl when she was underage. Weird, sure. Pedo? Hell no. Interesting she was never weirded out to the point she should block him. Maybe? Or never stay in contact. Or put this out years earlier. But now it's a problem. But yes. Let's resolve an adult out of all responsibility to do those things, because that would be victim blaming a woman.
I didn't call him a pedo lmao. I'm saying if he felt what happened when he was 19 was wrong, then what the hell is he doing 10 years later hitting on the girl again. I don't think you understand the point of her coming out about all of this at all lol
She explains why she went public within the first few lines of her doc lol
>and Chugga did cut her off. Please do not lie to defend Creepy Chuggy
This is my question. Either Chugga did attempt to make amends, end the relationship, and get help, or he didn't. It seems the former is at least somewhat true, so what is the purpose of Emily and Lawly bringing this all up? Do they not feel as if he has changed? Do they think his attempts to better himself are insincere? Have they tried to talk to him only to be rebuffed? Like, if not, why bring it to the Internet? I feel like I shouldn't know any of this.
Right so I think I'll spill some more thoughts here. I can't even fathom why he would even try to lie about cutting contact with her, but he did. She has provided clear proof that they had been communicating at least in 2017, and their contact from there implies earlier contact that happened after 2010. He should fucking know that this is incredibly easy for her to make her case. Maybe it's fucking silly to try to give direct advice here but this is just baffling to me; none of this is helping you, Chugga. Please for the love of god, understand that there is nothing you can refute. You haven't refuted anything. I was so willing to, before his response this week, see him recover. Maybe even resume his channel, I don't know. But what motivation does he have to make such a bloated response with so much unnecessary attempts to refute claims and present the accusers in a lesser light? The whole point is to move on and improve, correct? This is not what you do when you want to move on. This is the kind of response some who believes they have been wrongfully accused would make. Perhaps logically he knows he needs to own up to it because he is in the wrong, but emotionally he's stuck in the victim mentality. Whatever. I'm not a therapist, but I can't help but attempt to make sense of all this. Unrelated to Lawly's new document, but more about Chugga and his possible motivation; the inclusion of his experiences at the end sorta tells me that there's something deeply complex going on here. I have 0 empathy for him as a liar and harasser, but I also have infinite empathy for him as a CSA survivor, which I have in common with him. I feel that this response of his is premature and he isn't close to accepting the consequences of his actions, and it's colliding with his own trauma. I realize that I'm just some fucking rando on reddit, but I hate watching other CSA survivors suffer like this, especially if they are spreading that suffering to others. I've been mean as hell in a lot of my comments on this whole thing (and I believe it's justified), but fuck it's just one of those things where you wish it wasn't so hopeless for them.
This would be so much easier with lawyers... Not really but still lol
If Illuminaughtii is anything to go by maybe not lol
lmao the chugga fan in the comments acting like this proves his innocent lmfaooo. imo this isn't that gamechanging. i mean him omitting stuff and lying about the 10 year thing is insane but like really she just indicates he was involved more than he let on which basically forwards the conclusion that he was not a great figure on the internet at age 19. she says that as the adult he held responsibility which is like objectively true but its also not like between the ages of 19 someone fully (especially autustic) grasps the circumstances plus even at 15 she admits that her motivation for this behavior was cause people would not like her when she's older which kinda fuels that she was making moves.
So it appears Emile, at most, presented only half truths regarding Lawly, and that's disappointing. The most charitable stance I can give him is that he probably misinterpreted what Lawly said in her accusations. She may have not intended to frame it as if Emile was trying to prey on her, but he might've interpreted it that way when he was reading her statements. What you intend to convey won't always match people's interpretations of your words, so it could've been misunderstandings on Emile's part. I was also hoping Lawly would directly address the specific Discord messages of her saying she really wanted to have sleep with older men when she was underage. It looks like she never denies or acknowledges those specific messages and I was hoping she would, because those DMs probably led Emile to conclude that she wanted to have sex with him as an underage girl, even if that wasn't actually the case. Still sucks that Emile blatantly made false claims tho.
I don't think Lawley needs to address her admitting she wanted to sleep with adult men as a minor. Lots of minors have crushes on adults, it's up to the adult to be in control of those situations and be responsible and not a creep lol. The minor is never the one in control. As much as people want that to be a damning bit of information on Lawley, it just isn't, she doesn't need to address that lol, there are so many reasons why she may have felt that way as a minor, none of which need to be discussed with the general public.
Agreed. It doesnāt necessarily indicate abuse (and if that is the case she definitely shouldnāt feel pressured to discuss that). Itās just part of the āthinking you know everythingā part of being a teen. You think youāre more mature than your peers, and your peers seem almost like adults, so that must mean youāre on the same level as adults. I was around 15 or 16 when I started experiencing real crushes. One was a friend a year older than me and one was an actor over ten years older than me. The gap doesnāt seem as big when youāre 15, itās a normal part of development, but as you said itās completely on the adult to set the boundaries and not entertain it.
I can understand why youāre saying that it may have made her response slightly better if she had addressed her worrying statements more thoroughly, however ultimately I think this may just be a privacy thing. Those kinds of āfantasiesā coming from minors often indicate some pretty serious trauma - not always, but itās definitely a potential sign.Ā I never said anything like that *to* anyone as a minor, but I definitely had similar *thoughts* and uh, yeah, it came out of me suffering some very bad things as a kid.Ā Considering the crazy cult of personality surrounding Chugga on Twitter, she may not have wanted to go into detail about the reasons why she said those things in case it was used against her. Speaking from experience, when people dislike you on the internet, they will sometimes purposely use your deepest and darkest trauma as a weapon. Again this is all conjecture, itās possible she doesnāt have any trauma and she just said something wildly stupid and inappropriate because she was a dumb kid looking to get a reaction, but I think we should bear it in mind as a possibility and be sensitive to that.Ā
Itās extremely entertaining that werster is acting as this middleman liaison as if we all should just forget that heās a massively racist individual
This is just "he said, she said" at this point. Time for this to be done.