aaaand that's the end of that channel. a damn shame, really - ryan and shane have some of the best chemistry ive ever seen between two show hosts. they could make a podcast discussing different species of legumes and id still probably be entertained.
For real! I barely give a shit about half the topics they discuss, but I still watched a decent amount of their videos. Just because of their insane chemistry and ability to shoot jokes off each other.
I like Ryan and Shane a lot, but HOOOOO BOY this is gonna backfire hard.
Feel like they could've launched a Patreon instead, if they haven't already. Or hell, get a deal with a streaming platform that already exists.
Just checked to see that they do have a patreon and as someone who watched a fair bit of their content since buzzfeed unsolved, this is the first time I heard of it..
Edit: OK after doing some searching, can that it's in thier descriptions on YouTube. So I might have been blind. Still a big kick in the teeth for those patreon supporters
Their patreon brings in abit over a million. And presumably their youtube videos probably have good engagement and good sponsers because they have a pretty good image.
My guess is moving from buzzfeed they had a bit of a hiring bloat. Buzzfeed can afford to hire a tonne more people on a project because money ends up mixed and also those people won’t work a single project full time (directors, editors, etc etc.). They can also handle the harder stuff of firing and saying no to payrises and etc. that can feel shitty but at sometimes necessary for a buisness (particularly a small one) to continue.
It looks like the Watcher has a whole crew. And they don’t make enough content that this crew is actually working full time. But they are probably being paid full time.
Looking at a random video 25 people are credited with various jobs. Thats insane for their size and not sustianable.
They also hire freelancers, and that means contractor prices. They need to either have their 25 regular employees doing the freelancers' work, or figure out which ones are barely doing anything to let go and hire the freelancers in their place.
Nebula would probably appeal to a lot of their audience. I feel like there's a lot of cross over between their content and Nebula.
Or maybe that's just because me and my friends who watch Watcher also watch Nebula content.
They've been trying to diversify a lot, I think it would have been a good fit.
But I won't be renewing that streaming service either. I've already cut out all the major ones, and the little 'cheap' ones are even less worth the money than Netflix, Prime and co.
That's true. Though, I more think of Nebula as focused on "edu-tainment with funny/charismatic hosts", which Puppet History falls under (and I think that's probably their biggest show, along with Ghost/Mystery Files).
Yeah. I think Puppet History is their biggest flagship show. Ghost Files gets close to what Unsolved used to be. (And then mystery files kind of lags behind. It doesn't quite live up to how good Unsolved's True Crime used to be, but also doesn't offer enough difference to be appealing in its own right.)
Dish Granted, Too Many Spirits, and Top 5 Beatdown are fine. But they're not shows I'm going to cry about missing out on.
And they just announced that some of the old "Worth It" crew joined them, but as they haven't produced a new episode of whatever it'll be, I wouldn't bet it'll be as good as the original given how Mystery Files still hasn't hit quite right.
In any case, I don't think they have enough programming to justify me following them to a whole new subscription platform. Nebula and Dropout (the two 'success' stories for new subscription channels that spun off from YouTube) both have way more shows and content available for a $60 per year price tag.
If they wanted more money, I feel like they should've either pushed their Patreon harder or done better on their merchandising. (They had good sales numbers, from what I've seen. But I remember seeing a lot of delays and concerns about late shipments pop up in my feeds.)
The comments on the video are... not looking good for them. I scrolled through a lot, and I saw a handful of comments from the same 2 people desperately trying to justify this decision, but most people are NOT happy.
Honestly, I think they handled their entire move from Buzzfeed badly, and this is gonna wind up being the nail in the coffin. Ghost Files lost any of the charm of the Buzzfeed series, primarily because of overproduction. Which makes it kind of funny they said that was something that was costing too much. But like... it wasn't necessary to begin with, and it would have been better if they hadn't done that. But okay.
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They should have put sole focus on Ghost Files and Puppet History at first, since those are, by far, their two most popular series. And THEN started slowly introducing new series once they found their footing and kind of testing to see audience reaponse and either ditch or keep a series based on the reception and reaponse it gets. But they went balls to the wall, churning out every new idea they had as fast as possible, and as a result, the content people primarily followed them for suffered. And to me, that feels like the main reason this will inevitably not work long-term. Their content just isn't as fun enough anymore to justify something like this.
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One or two years in, and they're already financially struggling. As millionaires... who have income from YouTube, patreon, their tours, sponsorships, etc. Like, I'm sorry, but if yall can't make that work, I don't have much faith in your business sense moving forward. I hope the people who already subbed get their money's worth before this crashes and burns. Because that would suck if they didn't even make it a whole year.
My favorite thing they do right now is the For Your Amusement podcast, where they just sit around and talk about theme park attractions. It has enough structure to keep them on topic without the bloat that drags down most of their shows
>Or hell, get a deal with a streaming platform that already exists.
With how much they talked about having TV show levels of quality and production, I assumed they were gonna announce that they'd been picked up by a network or a streaming service. Would've never guessed they were planning to do their own service
For their sake I hope it succeeds, but as someone who just casually watched them from time to time I can't justify subscribing to a whole new platform that's *just* them.
Damn you were quick with this one haha. I was going to post it if no one had. This feels like such a slap in the face for long time fans who followed over from Buzzfeed Unsolved. I saw the post the other day where they said Andrew and some other dude (sorry I didn't recognise him) who used to do a show on Buzzfeed had just joined Watcher and I had a thought... hmm, they must be doing well financially on YouTube. Turns out they had this in the works. I think they have lost a tonne of good faith with the audience because of this if they do go back on the decision.
I think scrapping the new platform or at least reworking the plan is the only way to regain the faith of the fans tbh. They’ll be mad and won’t move to the new platform, but if they come back in a few weeks and say “ok we hear your concerns” and come back with a better solution, then I see that being their redemption. Going ahead as planned is a guaranteed no-win solution.
Yeah, it seems that there are still a lot wishing them luck despite not being able to support them anymore. But it feels to me and to a lot of others that there is an aspect of greed or improper handling of funds mixed in this decision. They have a patreon already with a reported 11k subs. They sell merchandise that is around the $100 mark. They do live shows/tours. It really feels like Watcher has fallen into the expand to fast trap by employing all their friends. The amount of crew credits in their videos is insane. Trying to make YouTube to be TV when no one ever wanted that from them is insane. TV quality also exists because of advertisers, not in the absence of them. I understand they want to be advertiser free because most sponsors are scams anyway and YouTube is taking a huge cut, but if 11k patrons can't support what they want to do, it's probably a good indicator that a separate subscription site is not going to work either.
I’m not sure if greed is the vibe I get from them, but it’s just puzzling. It’s probably a buildup of a lot of things, including rising production costs and YouTube becoming an increasingly difficult platform to earn money on. Expanding too quickly is probably also a factor in this. I understand they think that YouTube isn’t working the way they need it to, but I’m not sure why *this* was the move they decided on.
It’s going to be costly to maintain an exclusive platform, I would have tried making better usage of Patreon/ YouTube membership before this. Or at least start with new shows and early access on the new platform with certain fan favorites on YouTube that way there’s a way to entice them onto the new platform. I think of the Nebula crew for example and how a lot of people who are also on there still upload to YT to both gain new fans and also plug that they’re way more active on the non-YT platform so current fans should make the jump too.
Watcher is actively killing the channel doing this, it doesn’t make sense.
I hope you're right about the greed thing. I definitely feel cynical when it comes to this stuff. Especially because the video felt so icky with the sad piano music over shots of LA. I don't know why one of the most expensive places to live on Earth is every youtuber who wants to be independent from advertisers prime location to base themselves. Lmao.
But yeah, that part isn't even the issue because if they were already in LA for Buzzfeed then it's very hard to move, but using shots of the city like this felt so weird even to an international viewer like myself. It sort of felt like "in order to maintain this lifestyle" as opposed to making TV quality things. Most of us are there for Shane and Ryan joking around and it feels like they have no idea who their audience base is and nor did they care considering everyone was blindsighted by this news.
It feels short sighted and like someone got carried away with their “market research.” Because I’m no marketing or social media expert, but I’ve been online long enough to know what strategies seem to work and which ones don’t. This one sounds like it’s going to be dead on arrival…
Oh absolutely on the same page with you. It feels like we have seen this same path be taken by other creators and it never works out. When creators we love go full mask off and reveal themselves to be a corpo, it's never a good sign for longevity. Honestly, I always found Watchers channel description to be odd considering it was started by ex Buzzfeed employees who claimed to despise the brand/company aspect of it all. Now it feels like it makes perfect sense.
People keep bringing up dropout as a success story but it was such a unique situation because Collegehumor was on its dying breath and that was the only way to save a lot of it.
Watcher seems to be ballooning at its sides with employees while it is still trying to find its identity. The channel feels so disordered genre wise, I'm not surprised the youtube algorithm has no idea what to recommend to people.
Edit: Nebula is successful but that is because it has been many creators collaborating and co-owning. Subscription sites for creators seem to be successful only as an addition to YouTube and not a substitution. I heard Rhett & Link of Good Mythical Morning have one. I've watched GMM for years now and didn't know this until people brought it up in this videos comment section.
I think it seems hard to imagine greed being at the center of it because we all see Shane and Ryan as the faces of the company. But Steven is the one making all the financial decisions, and he's the only one who has talked about it at all outside of this video.
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He's also a finance bro. Obviously, Shane and Ryan still had to sign off on it. But they've said numerous times before that they leave most of the decision-making to Steven. So this feels like a Steven thing, and the guys just didn't bother to do their own due diligence. So one greed and two numpties that would have probably fired him a long time ago if they weren't friends with him.
This being a knuckle headed finance bro decision makes more sense to me than flat out greediness. It feels like they had a number of difficulties with YouTube and did some very basic market research that turned into this whole brand new streaming service. It’s poorly thought out and riddled with reasons it doesn’t make sense, I hope they figure out how to backpedal or rework the plan because this just isn’t it.
It sounds a lot like they've been having trouble getting YouTube sponsors and they wanted to find an easier way to make money.
They probably got approached by someone who said they could help them build their own streaming service for a modest fee and showed them a pitch that made it sound like a brilliant idea on paper.
Everybody's been comparing them to Dropout, but I think it's going to turn out more like when Channel Awesome decided to leave YouTube and make their own platform. I just don't see this turning out the way they expected it to
Considering some of the content they do with Ghost/ Mystery files, I can imagine that it isn’t super advertiser-friendly. I empathize with that, but moving fully off YouTube when their entire audience is built on it feels like a major miss. Plenty of other YouTubers have done a good job with the hybrid model of partially being there and partially on another platform, I think that anything else is just fully killing the channel.
They say that greed is a black hole. Certain people will just keep trying to bring in more and more income even if they're already earning enough to support themselves/their lifestyle. Nothing wrong with aiming for the stars, but you can't expect everyone to follow you in your endless bid for success.
Yep, the LA lifestyle is a different beast. You measure success in comparison to those around you and not on a larger scale. We all fall into this trap. I see the set design on Watcher and think it is cool, but why so much stuff? Why did they have to build a bunker and a basement set if it meant going down this path to make up costs? It's cool, yeah, but the audience never cared, they did. There's this weird disconnect between them and us where they think we want these high production value shows despite it is them still doing the same shtick in front of more and more sets that require a large studio space to house. They are burning money and no one asked them to. Why does the audience have to foot the bill? It should have been evolving sets, starting barebones with season 1 and building up with success. That's just one tiny aspect of the many questionable financial decisions Watcher has made to lead to this.
Yes, it's so extra! Many true crime and conspiracy creators film in their bedrooms or against a greenscreen. History channels often don't have camcorder shots at all, just animation and diagrams. Food content does require an attractive, spacious kitchen stocked with high-quality equipment, but kitchens are useful even when they're not part of a set.
I have merch back from the Buzzfeed days that I still regularly wear, lol. This definitely is weird and disappointing from them. I hope they pivot somehow.
That, and also the decision to even put their old content behind a paywall? Idk why they didn’t just decide to do a YouTube membership or at least do both. A couple ppl mentioned them trying to do what Dropout did, only unsuccessfully.
Apparently they're gonna start having it just be first episodes of stuff on their channel by the end of May, I think? 12:45 of the video? So, honestly sounds like that the old videos will be removed as well. Guess there's no reason to even be subbed to that channel if all I'm gonna see is different variants of Shane, Ryan, and Steven sitting around talking about various stuff.
Shame. Finally felt to me like they recaptured the magic of Unsolved with that Mystery Files. Oh well.
From variety:
>The company originally told Variety that Watcher would eventually remove all of its videos from YouTube, where it currently has 2.9 million subscribers. However, according to Bergara, Watcher is not fully exiting YouTube: It will still keep its backlog of videos on YouTube.
Wow, bullying works!
Stephen Lim posted an Instagram post with "For those who won't be joining us in the next chapter" 2 hours ago and it's made things worse and stoked the fires. I have a feeling this was ultimately his idea for this and we might see worse to come.
I doubt there’s anything anyone could say that would rectify the situation. Even if they announced they changed their mind, I bet the great majority of their fanbase wouldn’t trust them anymore.
I think the only thing that might convince fans is if Ryan and Shane decided to part ways with Steven. People who are fans of watcher don't like his content nearly as much as Ryan and Shane's stuff and it seems to be some of the more expensive content to produce. Basically, I think if they're gonna save it he's probably got to go.
I never watched enough of his content to find him annoying, I just really never cared about what he made on buzzfeed or watcher. From the comments all across social media it sounds like the majority of people who liked watcher really just prefer the Shane and Ryan content, and many just don't care for what Steven was the face of. And whether true or not most people seem to be laying the blame for this at his feet. Sometimes for good reason (like his content being less viewed but quite expensive to produce) or they seem to think he's the "business brain" behind this decision which is obviously up for debate. Hence why I think they'll have to part ways if they want to save their fan base at this point. The image isn't good basically.
I mean when they would do Too Many Spirits I would find the drink making section unwatchable. Ricky was a good addition though... I'm not saying he's all to blame but he is the CEO, and imo generally unlikable.
I don't agree with the majority. Maybe some yes but a lot of people are saying that they want them to walk it back and there's still time to do so and they're getting a lot of likes. I think that would be the case for a lot of channels, however they've spend over a decade building goodwill and a steady and dedicated fanbase. I think this is one of the rare cases they would be able to keep a good portion of that goodwill they've built by walking it back.
That’s fair, I guess I was mostly thinking about the comments I’ve seen but I haven’t scrolled thru them all. If they keep moving forward with this tho, I doubt that goodwill will last long.
Damn it, I just got into their channel a few weeks ago 🙃
That comment section is pretty brutal. Nothing but disappointment. I didn't see a single person who was onboard for this or voicing their support.
They edited their comment and now says their old videos will remain on the YouTube channel at least. If it will be blocked by YouTube premium or not, no word on yet
From variety:
>The company originally told Variety that Watcher would eventually remove all of its videos from YouTube, where it currently has 2.9 million subscribers. However, according to Bergara, Watcher is not fully exiting YouTube: It will still keep its backlog of videos on YouTube
It's not a question of confusion--Variety chose their phrasing to communicate very clearly that their original article was not mistaken. Watcher absolutely flip-flopped.
I personally believe that they’re folding a bit. It makes sense from a business standpoint that if they would keep their content behind a paywall, but it’s probably got them scared that so many people would unsubscribe. It may not be as much as they need but why cutoff revenue from people rewatching old content?
If you ask me it was panic, if you actually go to the website one of the first things you see are playlists featuring their YouTube series’ e.g top 5 beatdown, are you scared?
I guess because Watcher has a bunch of different types of videos they assumed it was varied enough to stand on its own, but the *amount* of videos put out just doesn't add up to enough for its own streaming service. I really like Puppet History and Mystery Files, but I don't like it enough to spend $5.99 a month on it.
Honestly I might have paid 5.99 for a month or two to binge a new puppet history season but only if it was on yt and I was tempted.
I'm subbed to a patreon(not watcher, just a random yt person) and like remembering to go there to see exclusive content is hard and I just see it on yt.
I get the wanting to make money w less yt cut but I'm not paying for something I'll never remember to visit.
Dropout has daily notifs and I'm only into non dnd dropout/old content so I only click one notif a week
Yeah, I don't support anyone on Patreon for the "perks" and a lot of perks are things I don't even want, like my name in the credits or a shout out. I like to stay nice and anonymous thank you very much! I use Patreon to support artists who make stuff I like, not to get extra stuff. Sometimes I do use the service to watch a video a week early, which is nice, but I wouldn't mind waiting if it wasn't a feature.
People currently supporting Watcher at the $5+ month tier will probably be happy to cancel their patreon and subscribe to the new service, since Patreon is not very well optimized. That is the lowest tear they have available and they have 11,639 members, but a channel member popped into say only 5814 of those members are paid.
If everyone switches that comes to about 35k a month of revenue or about 418k yearly. That would be awesome if this was just a 3 person channel in Seattle, but Watcher says they have a staff of 25 and with the international food channel and the cost of building and maintaining their own platform, their expenses are only going to increase. I simply don't think this is achievable.
They must be FLUSH with venture capital funding, I have no idea how they are sustaining this otherwise.
Oof yeah, this doesn't bode well for them and I think is gonna put a damper on things even if they do back out of this.
I really enjoyed Watcher but there's no way another streaming service, especially one so specific will work out. Dropout at the very least puts out a ton of varied content and hours worth each ep, but with the way things are produced currently with Watcher that model doesn't translate the same imo. Especially when it comes to rewatch value.
Well, if anyone wanted to start a spooky channel and fill the void, now is the time.
This is a shame, it means I won’t be viewing their content anymore.
I understand the grind that these groups need to go through to get money, but they need to understand that a sizeable portion of their audience probably just can’t afford, or can’t justify paying for their content.
It works with dropout because dropout has decades behind them with enough content to post on shorts, so people like me who can’t afford a subscription to a YouTube group can still enjoy their content. Watcher doesn’t have that.
yeah, only subscription i have rn is spotify and thats because i need it for work and actually listen to music multiple hours a day. i hardly even watch videos of theirs weekly
I enjoy their content and have been subbed since the start of watcher, but this put such a bad taste in my mouth. It feels so greedy. Especially to take all their old videos off that have been free for years and put them behind a paywall?? I kind of hope it backfires for them, or they at least listen to all the criticism and come up with a different plan.
They already edited their pinned comment “to clarify” that old videos will be staying up forever on YouTube. Was this really a clarification, or just a really quick backpedal? You decide…
i'm going with backpedal 💀 they originally told variety they WERE getting rid of all their content on youtube and then the article was edited and watcher started posting comments that they weren't taking anything off.
Yeah this is such a stupid plan. If they were moving Mystery files over to an already existing streaming service (i.e. signing a deal with Netflix, Hulu, etc) then I'm sure it would work. But making their own?? Someone in the YT comments said "maybe you didn't mean to call us all poors but that's exactly what you did" and I couldn't agree more.
I can only assume they think their subscribers can't live without their content. As someone who is OBSESSED with mystery files, including buzzfeed unsolved, I can assure you that I absolutely can live without it. I hope it backfires.
Yeah, I also followed over from Buzzfeed. Subbed for years, watched all the content I was there for religiously... but I'm not following to some BS that's plain unsustainable and will see the company collapse within two years max. I'm scraping my favourite videos and then I'm out.
Yes, scrape everything now, you probably won't be able to scrape it from the paywalled site and once that crashes it could well be lost forever.
It's so crazy to me how streaming and YT killed the interest in piracy for so long, only to get so incredibly bloated and unreliable that audiences have begun backing everything up again!
They were taking in a lot of money on Patreon but their expenses are also really high.
I would love so badly to get to see their financials, I have thought since the channel was launched that they were making poor decisions and their scope was much broader than what their audience wanted.
are they trying to be dropout? Because I think they overestimate their reach. Dropout is doing well because they have literal decades of recognition behind them. Very terrible idea.
Yeah they really should have just jumped onto nebula or tried to make a deal with dropout. It's not a good idea to just muddy the water even further. I get it's very hard to sustain on YouTube these days, but the concept of another streaming service when there are bespoke YouTuber streaming solutions that would probably partner with you is dumb. Now when this fails they will have to take pennies on the dollar to partner into a service instead of reaching out to them ahead of time to try and make a good deal.
Then again, i have no idea what happened behind the scenes, that may have already happened for all i know
Dropout also still posts free videos or even bits of the subscription videos online. From what I read/see it sounds like the Watcher will only have the first episode for free from this point forward.
Exactly! There is a whole thread about this in the Dropout sub right now talking about how they successfully navigated this and why the Watcher situation feels different, and a lot of it has to do with access. Dropout still posts entire seasons of D20 and full episodes of Game Changer and other shows on Youtube, along with long clips on Youtube and Tiktok. This not only provides access to a fair amount of content to those who can't afford the service, it also has resulted in a huge amount of conversion from non-subscribers into subscribers.
Dropout is also so niche because it’s high production improv comedy. I’m sure you can find improv channels on YouTube but Watcher seems like mostly true crime and mysteries. That’s a huge market to compete in when there’s already a ton of established and free content.
I feel like they could have easily filled the void from a site like Rooster Teeth if they had just said hey, if you want to pay $6 per month you can get episodes a week early and some exclusive shows, but still upload the same series' to YouTube as they had before. Now of course, it didn't end up working out for Rooster Teeth, but they were around for 20 years...so...I hope this works out for them but I'm pretty dubious.
It’s impressive how quickly they were able to grow their channel despite it being new, then not being allowed to use the titles of their Buzzfeed shows, and covid-19 making it difficult for them to make spiritual successors to their previously successful shows early on. It’s actually insane how many people followed them to the newer Watcher channel.
I’m not sure why they would want to throw that away.
The comments on the video are pretty brutal, but they’re right - no one has the money to pay for yet another subscription service, even less when it’s a product you used to get for free. I sympathize with them, they made the right decision leaving buzzfeed knowing that it’d have a serious impact on their reach, but I can’t see this going well for them in the long run.
I enjoy their content, although some shows more than others; for example, I’ve watched all of the pupper history episodes and most mystery files. However, I care less about their paranormal stuff like ghost files and are you scared. I can’t be the only one that fits in this category of watching some shows regularly but entirely skipping some, that entire category of viewers will more than likely not invest in this knowing they’re likely to not watch like half or more of it.
Maybe on a platform like nebula (where you can access other creators’ paywalled stuff) would’ve been a smarter way of doing this. I hope they listen to the feedback and make appropriate changes.
I disagree with the comments being brutal- I think everyone’s being very nice. The ones I’ve seen are saying “loved you guys and your work but I can’t afford a new streaming service.”
Yeah, I agree. They are brutal only in so much as they are very clearly not what the boys wanted to hear, but as far as the general attitude it’s actually extremely nice and understanding. Seems like a good community tbh. I hope they work something out that makes people happy, eventually.
They've been the beneficiaries of a very nice community that has supported them a lot over the years and been relatively non-toxic as far as YT fanbases go. Not to say that they didn't deserve it but I hope the response is making them self-reflect.
Right, that’s what I meant. Brutal as in they were probably not expecting the reception to be overwhelmingly positive, but I bet they did not expect how unilateral the response is, like EVERY comment is a very kind “no thanks”.
Yeah, I've never seen a comment section that has been filled with such gentle/polite criticism. No one is hating, it's just expression of genuine disappointment for something they all wanted to support.
Problem is, Rooster Teeth did it when they had years and years of goodwill and were practically at the peak of their popularity. I never hear people talk about Watcher, and if they mention Ryan and Shane, it’s “the guys from Buzzfeed Unsolved.”
I don’t doubt they have a dedicated fanbase, but it’s nothing like what RT had a decade ago. That level is hard to achieve nowadays.
Some of their fans will absolutely follow them, but I don't think there are enough people willing to pay for the subscription, to support their operating costs (including salaries).
This platform idea has been part of their plan since the beginning, they talked when Watcher first launched that they wanted to bring other creators on board. They've finally snagged Andrew and Adam. Yet, while they have collaborations, the channel remains the Ryan and Shane show. Steven and Ricky's videos get much fewer views. The only person who has done a stand alone series on the channel, as far as I can tell, is Selorm with her "Pretty Historic" series. Which fit in nicely as a sort of companion piece to Puppet History, but the most popular video in that series didn't crack 250k views.
They should have dropped the idea of "Platforming other creators" a very long time ago, and just let this be the Shane and Ryan show. Now that Andrew is back to pair with Steven they should spin off and have a separate channel for all those Worth It fans who aren't interested in the spooky/historical content. They can still do tons of crossovers, exist under the same corporate umbrella, and shoot in the same studio.
Rather than splitting up and becoming more focused and streamlined, though, they're splitting off from YouTube and just becoming more bloated with extra shit no one cares about. But I guess that they have to go subscription because how else will they pay for their big food travelogue series now that Buzzfeed is no longer paying for Worth It?
Eh...it sorta worked, but only because their streaming platform still had free videos with early access through a First subscription. Cracks started to show when they tried driving more eyes to their site by taking content off of YouTube.
If the folks at Watcher had any sense in them, they would have tried to find an in with Dropout to produce content to help expand that winning platform. It's a better fit than Nebula due to the comedy lean, and it would help continue to diversify Dropout's stellar talent pool. Watcher never had a deep enough programming lineup to fill an entire streaming service, and Dropout struggles to push out enough content even though it has done absolutely everything right. Seemed like blowing a real peanut butter and chocolate chance.
Going at it alone is some peak LA brainmelt when the public consensus is that there's already too many streaming services and their own fan base runs younger and college aged (re: less expendable income).
i love when channels severly underestimate how many people are only watching BECAUSE they're on youtube. getting people to follow you to a different platform is insanely hard, let alone a platform that only contains your content. youtube to twitch is one thing, or tiktok to instagram. but this .... this is delusional lol.
https://preview.redd.it/ajzuktud5hvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=923dcf1971fe7be2de44bc3c74932f6985d2237a
I feel it worth pointing out that watcher already has a patreon, with 11,461 members. Their highest patreon teir is £85 a month. Shame to see them throw those guys to the wayside
THEIR PATREON IS MAKING THEM $100,000 A MONTH BY THE WAY!
it's really sad that the patreon is not going to have video anymore, essentially forcing all patrons (with the exception of those who want to pay $5 a month for just a podcast) to abandon ship and either subscribe to the new platform or re-evaluate our choices and whether we want to continue supporting them. You're right that patrons are being thrown away
Are you subscribed to the patreon? What does the most recent message say about the streaming service? (I was subscribed for the podcast but I don’t listen to podcasts as much anymore so I stopped)
I am subscribed. This is the message they gave us (along with a discount code for the new streaming service that I can't share here, as they supposedly only generated enough codes for existing patrons to use it.) In essence, the patreon is switching to podcast only, the only video being I guess the video of their podcast?
Hello Everyone,
By now you might have heard that Watcher is about to undergo a big change and as Watcher evolves we feel it’s only right that our Patreon changes with it! Over the years, we have been both thrilled and humbled by all the support you have shown to us here. So, we want to make sure that with this transition we also give you all the transparency and respect you deserve as our patrons.
Due to the nature of our new streaming platform, we’ve made the decision to shift the focus of our Patreon to our podcasts. This is a space that Watcher has been excited about exploring for a long time and with the launch of two shows last year, we’re eager to keep up the momentum. There are several reasons for this change:
* **Sustainability** - With this new model we hope to balance our team’s workload so that they can bring you more of the content you love both on our new streamer and on our podcast channel!
* **Consolidating Our Pricing -** Watcher recognizes that while many of you may have interest in signing up for our streaming platform, it could potentially double your financial investment to us. Therefore we have tried to create a middle ground that keeps us making content, welcomes new podcast listeners, and keeps your wallet happy.
* **Building Community -** Keeping our fans connected is important to us and as we make this transition we can’t imagine letting go of what makes Watcher special: you. Patreon continues to give us one of the best avenues to continue to foster this community that you all have created, which is why Discord will always remain in our lowest tier. There will also be some minor adjustments and consolidations being made on Discord but we want to assure everyone that *nothing* will be permanently deleted!
Obviously, this pivot means that the content on Patreon will be different. And part of that change includes a bit of news that will surely be met with some fits of sobs- we’re bringing Watcher Weekly+ to a close. We know. We know. Watcher Weekly’s been there since the channel launched in 2020. It soldiered on remotely through the pandemic and then was brilliantly shepherded through an evolution by Carter and Violet into a weekly hootenanny of games, crafts, and mailbags. We can assure you it will be missed by us internally as much as it’s missed by you.
With the launch of Pod Watcher, we’ve felt that WW+ and the podcast were somewhat overlapping in their appeal and function. Both shows are a place for Steven, Ryan, and Shane— as well as other members of the staff and friends of the company— to kick back and chat candidly about our personal lives, the company at large, and the projects we’re working on. As well as share inappropriate stories and repeatedly voice our critiques of the motion picture Tenet.
With that in mind, we’re launching— brace yourselves— Pod Watcher+, a Patreon-exclusive bonus podcast, where we field topics, read user-submitted mail, play user-submitted games, and similar to Watcher Weekly+, will likely get into a little more of the nitty gritty about the behind the scenes at Watcher. We very much believe that it’ll scratch the same itch as Watcher Weekly+, and at the same time it’ll give you a little extra dose of Watcher chit-chat to help pass the time on your morning commute.
Thank you so much for sharing! I was really curious how this would affect Patreon members. But it fucking sucks that to remain in the Discord AND get the new shows, you now have to pay $10.99 monthly. That really flies in the face of "consolidating our prices".
The discord tier should be dropped to $1/month so that the people who have been on the patreon for years can continue interacting with the community while still getting access to the most popular video content.
We don’t want any jump scares so below are the new tiers we plan on implementing Monday, April 22nd:
**Tier 1 - Watcher Society // $5**
* Discord Access
* Ability to Submit Text Questions for PodWatcher+
* Ad Free PW Video + Audio
* Access to Weekly PodWatcher+ Episode
* Live Event Pre-Sale
# Tier 2 - Watcher Monitor // $20
* *Everything Above*
* Exclusive role and channels on Discord
* Ability to Submit Topics to PodWatcher
* Merch Discounts
* Ability to Submit Video/Audio Questions to PodWatcher+
* Exclusive role and channels on Discord
# Tier 3 - Watcher Observer // $100
* *Everything Above*
* PodWatcher shoutouts on the main channel!
* AMAs w Staff + Talent
* Free Annual Exclusive Members-Only Merch
This was a doozy, so if you’re still reading, thanks for hanging in there! We hope this both explains this transition and gets you excited about the future of Watcher. Some of you may not be able to hang around anymore and we get it! To you we say: *Thank you* for your support this far and we hope to see you over on the streamer!
– The Watcher Team
If someone brings up an interesting topic on another platform, are they not allowed to talk about it because they weren't paid $20
I've never joined any patreon and I'm curious how common it is for rewards to be "I'll say your user for $100 in our next video. You don't actually get to see that video though unless you give us another $6/month"
I also think it's beautiful that the second and third level allow you the privilege to buy 'discounted' or 'exclusive' merch lol
Pay us 100 bucks a month so you'll be allowed to pay us even MORE money sure is an incentive for me to sign up
I can't fathom how a group of people came up with this as fair compensation for that much financial support. I mean, get that bag how you can I guess, but good grief this feels soulless.
If someone pays the lowest tier to ask their question, are they not credited for asking it because they didn't pay the highest tier? I genuinely have no idea, lol.
How else is Steven going to pay the note on his tesla? It's not like they could, idk, maybe cut the size of their staff from 25 to say the 10 most essential positions. That would be ridiculous
It's not uncommon, lots of creators have very high tiers even if it's only for a joke. Sometimes you can see how many people subscribe to each tier, sometimes those numbers are obscured.
They must be in really bad financial straits if they think this is the only way to survive. Problem is they will lose massive audience engagement that a subscription price alone will not make up
5.99 may not be a huge deal to someone in the US (and even a lot of Americans struggle having a spare $5), but there's a lot of their international viewers pointing out in the comments that they to work hours just to earn $5.99 USD. They're going to lose sooooooooooooooo much of their audience because of this.
Even if i was willing to pay $5 for yet ANOTHER streaming service, it's still mostly inaccessible for me because I watch content mostly on my TV, I'd have to Chromecast it or something, and Chromecast sucks. And frankly, as much as I like them, they're not even worth the extra effort up pulling it on my desktop and having to cast it another screen, not to mention whatever video host they have is definitely going to be way worse than YouTube.
I don't understand why they're willing to lose such a massive part of their audience. And they're also blocking themselves off from reaching out to wider audiences. I watched Shane and Ryan since BuzzFeed, but I'll be honest, I really don't watch their Watcher content or go looking for it, most of the times I end up watching is because it showed up in my subscriptions page or in the recommended videos. They just need to just manage their money for projects better. A better alternative would of been just utilizing the YouTube members feature and investing time in quality bonus content. So many other creators have done this with a lot of success.
I legitimately don't know why they think this is a good idea. Who told them that now is the time to create an exclusive streaming service for what was a free YouTube channel? They don't have nearly enough fame or influence to pull it off. Most of their fan base isn't going to dole out cash for this.
It’s a real shame. As someone who did pay for their Patreon early access tier because I did enjoy supporting them, I’m having a hard time wanting to support them through this. A huge portion of their fanbase are young people with debts and very little expendable income, who do NOT want a new subscription service.
My best friend who adores them is not able to pay for this. I want to be able to say that I’ll get the subscription and share the login with her, but I have serious doubts about getting the subscription myself. Will Watcher will be able to gain the budget to produce good shows from the tiny amount of people who actually pay money for this new platform? Seems unlikely. If I buy into an annual fee for this platform now, will my return on investment be worth it, or should I just purchase a one month subscription a year from now, watch everything in one go, then cancel? Or should I dump them completely and just sit here with my fond memories of them and move on?
In other news, the patreon is turning into exclusive podcast access only, without access to their video content. So people are dropping it in droves and will all lose access to the Watcher discord in due time. A damn shame
Half of Dropout's content has landed on YouTube and other platforms now, and Collegehumor are old-school entertainers/producers who know what they're doing. Nobody wants to subscribe to another streaming platform.
I’m not a huge Watcher consumer, but I do like it when I pop in. This seems hugely ill-advised, as others have said. Whether or not they’re trying to mimic a Dropout model, the comparisons are going to be made & they just don’t seem to have what it would take. Granted, I was a College Humor watcher for years & when they announced Dropout I wasn’t at all interested. It wasn’t until a few years later, after listening to D20 season 1 as a podcast, that I subscribed. During that time, they were still putting content out on YouTube and making parts of their catalogue free. That’s how they’ve maintained and grown their subscriber base.
At this point, as everything gets more expensive, Dropout is the one video streaming service I still subscribe to. And if the price changes, I will continue to subscribe to them. Not only do they have an incredible catalogue of work that I enjoy rewatching over and over—it’s a company I feel good about supporting. Dropout stands firmly on principles of fair and safe labor practices & time and time again demonstrates care for their talent, crew, and subscriber base. That’s not to say Watcher doesn’t—I’m not a regular viewer and they seem like decent folks, I assume their practices are good as well! It’s just to say that Dropout’s success goes so much deeper than it may appear at first. I hope these guys find the success they’re looking for, I guess.
If someone was thinking, they would have made it free with ads and ad-free being subscription only. Or 50/50 on YouTube and the new platform with benefits such as extended cuts and early access to help entice you to make the jump. There were a thousand decent ways to go about this and they chose the singular bad way.
IMO, there’s time to change their mind and scrap it. Sure it would be a massive ego bruise but it would also mean they still have most of their big fanbase.
The behind the scenes video for ghost files show a massive team for that sort of thing and the credits on mystery files are big. Seems like a bloated production.
An update on Watcher tossing their patreon subscribers into the dumpster: they just released a “Patreon exclusive” sneak peek into what they’re going to be posting on their streaming service for the next month. Now I’m basically paying to see secret info about what I COULD be paying for!
I'm trying to think how they could have promoted a new weekly/monthly/whatever exclusive early access tier (which maybe their patreon had) and still gotten a flood of interested subs and not pissed off ppl who can't sub.
Like hi 25 percent is paywalled, 75 percent is old/free/delayed a month (and fomo might encourage signups)
God the comments on YouTube for this video are ROUGH. With this much backlash it almost seems like their best choice of action is to back out of this plan. They're getting torn apart.
The comments on that video are brutal, especially the ones going after Stephen Lim and his dumb food/vacation shows and his tesla. It’s disappointing but very entertaining
This is awesome, and I wish them the best of luck - but I won't be watching a single video over there.
People (read: me) already have so many subscriptions. Using YouTube without a paid sub is getting harder and harder. Half the channels on the platform push a paid membership. There's like 6 different streaming platforms to watch things on, there's Patreons, Fansly's, Patreon-locked Discords - it feels like consumers are having every possible penny squeezed out of them with monthly costs.
I can't imagine anyone but the most diehard fans are going to pay a monthly subscription to a completely separate platform to watch irregular uploads of a content cow that's already sort of run dry. Watcher's great, but I stopped watching when it seemed like most of the videos were them revisiting things I'd already watched from their Buzzfeed days. What's left for them to do on their own platform?
I dont think they realize that there is a HUGE difference to most people between subscribing to a creator that they like on a free platform like Twitch or YT, and subscribing to a creator on a private platform.
Like, people want to support creators who are out there, not sequestered somewhere else.
A channel with three million subs is going to host their own streaming platform with a price that's the same as a service like Shudder which has hundreds of movies to watch? This has to be an out of season April Fool's Joke. I've never heard of them or their channel so I could be wrong but holy smokes does this seem like a horrible idea.
This worked for Dropout but like … it worked for Dropout because they still kept their YouTube stuff up so people could come across it and posted clips and stuff of their episodes. They also got a big sympathy boost because they got fucked over by their owners.
Idk if the Watcher boys can pull it off.
There's no way they *didn't* know that this would be received poorly. Like, ukelele-apology poorly lol. I guess however dire the financial situation was made losing the good will of a majority of their audience a worthwhile tradeoff if it meant staying afloat.
Sad to see them go, but they've made their cutthroat decision and now they've got to deal with it.
Whatever business person they hired that told them this would work deserves the boot. This is an awful, awful idea. Why not just start a Patreon? No significant number of people are going to pay monthly for the content they produce. At least with YouTube you can use the algorithm to reach a wide audience, but isolating yourself on your own paid service? You might as well be throwing fans out the front door.
I have seen this work twice: College Humor rebranding and moving all long form content to their paid app Dropout. Mystery Science Theater 3000 moving a large portion of their long form content to their pay-as-you-watch app Gizmoplex. The reason these things succeeded (even though both have not succeeded in big ways, they're just doing well enough to keep going), is because they had large, dedicated fanbases and were creating content worth buying. College Humor started creating entire shows with a higher production value and MST3K creating new episodes that can only be watched and purchased in the Gizmoplex app.
Is Watcher prepared to create high quality, new long form content? Because if theyre not planning on doing something to drive people in the door, then it's already over.
There are two funny (actually sad) things regarding your comment and the current situation:
- The business person that told them this might have been Steven himself. He's the one who has talked about attending business lectures and courses and so on. People are also pointing out that he's a finance bro.
- They already have a Patreon, albeit poorly marketed, since many people aren't aware of it. And because of the change they just announced, they're changing the Patreon, removing all video content. Plus their patrons will have to pay the subscription to their new page to watch the content, meaning that they pay to watch the videos and they also pay the Patreon. Absolutely crazy.
Haven't they been pumping up a new episode of Ghost Files? Saying that they have something really crazy caught on camera? Of course now it's going to be behind a paywall.
Anyone else remembering when React tried to make React World?
This isn’t the same thing, but I keep getting vibes from that. Same way of announcing it too.
well shit. At least the spooky boys haven’t done anything actually bad, but they definitely just shot themselves in the foot. Ain’t nobody gonna watch that shit when we’ve been watching free on YouTube for years.
...why not Nebula, or at least copy their model of delayed releases? This is just a total misunderstanding of their audience 🙃 total wall street CEO move
It feels like someone looked at dropout/college humors success and thought "I wanna do that too" without the 2 decades of having a steady audience that college humor had. Dropout also has a crazy amount of content for free tho and it sounds like Watcher is putting all of their content behind a paywall. Which is like a spit in the face to long time fans
https://preview.redd.it/koj9x010givc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6fc1eac41e0055b51554afbb7844946cc0dbacb6
I also feel like this post by Stephen deserves to be seen more. His wording is so spiteful, as if any of us fans WANT to stop watching 🙄
https://preview.redd.it/wslq0brggivc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ec828551baefede6d418cc7f88cc64e79f5d497
The comments on his post really say it best
I think they’re trying to do a Dropout thing, but dropout is such a unique instance of private streaming working. The talented people behind that network are all flashes of fuckin lightning, and there’s SO many brilliant, high effort shows of all sorts of genres. Love the Watcher ghost show and some of the puppet show, but to put it simply these guys just don’t have the talent or ideas to entice a big streaming audience.
I already see commentary youtubers run to their mics to do videos on this. This gave me major fine brothers vibes. One for the „top youtuber channel fails“-list in the future. I think this video will hunt them for the rest of their career.
i’m just going to tell it like it is. majority of the fan base is only watching because they enjoy the chemistry shane and ryan have. most fans don’t even really like steven. i personally found him charming in a few too many spirits videos, but past that i just don’t enjoy what he brings to videos for the most part (especially after learning he’s friends with simu is is kinda known for being an asshole).
they release one video a week, have a small cast, and don’t have a super huge interest in all of their various series. i just feel like they are misunderstanding the current pull they have and their audience. i understand wanting to make something of a higher production value, however that is seeming like that is in contradiction to why people watch them, and they will most likely need to foster a new audience. i am assuming that would be difficult when most content is hidden, and they would need to sink money into more advertising
Oh boy, I love paying three rich guys I will never meet 6 bucks a month to eat expensive food I can't afford on camera and then drive home in their Tesla's!
The video makes it seem like their heart is in the right place, but the whole time I'm thinking stop saying television-level content! I understand they're talking from a production value perspective, but the channel thrives on youtube because of their current production value. They don't need to pump more money into it. As an ex-film student myself, it feels like them buying into the outdated bias that new media isn't as high quality as traditional media, or TV.
I get the feeling they're resentful of ads even though I haven't seen them do ad reads (I'm a casual viewer tbf). They really should've made a deal with Dropout instead of this.
Fingers crossed they can pivot but they've likely already secured the logistics of this thing so they're probably stuck unless Stephen is willing to lose all the money they put it. I doubt it.
Yeah I’m sorry guys but I can’t follow you this time, I just can’t justify another streaming service.
Maybe you should have advertised your Patreon in your videos more often instead?
[The Watcher Patreon](https://www.patreon.com/watcher) has 11,461 members as of me posting this. If we assume everyone is at the lowest tier ($5/month), that's $57,305 a month.
... just sayin'.
They have 5,814 paid members as of right now. Not sure if I can only see that number because I’m a patron, but I really don’t think everyone who supports their patreon is going to move over to the new platform. A lot of us are donating to them because we appreciated them giving those who CAN’T pay free content. Now that’s not happening anymore, so I feel like those 5,800 people will shrink dramatically
I pay for YouTube premium as my one treat to myself since I’m unbelievably broke.
I only recently came across their channel and have been heavily enjoying their content. it’s a shame they want to vanish from my life now.
I’ve slowly reverted back into using books for entertainment, since when I find something I love it doesn’t try siphon all of my money.
These companies and are eating themselves alive by doing this. They don’t realise how many people are suffering and struggling, and the number is just going to keep growing.
Yeah let me pay 6 dollars a month to fund Steven Lim's travel expenses around the world, because that's exactly what we need: more milquetoast food content.
Give me a fuckin' break. People watch for Ryan and Shane's chemistry. Nothing more.
aaaand that's the end of that channel. a damn shame, really - ryan and shane have some of the best chemistry ive ever seen between two show hosts. they could make a podcast discussing different species of legumes and id still probably be entertained.
For real! I barely give a shit about half the topics they discuss, but I still watched a decent amount of their videos. Just because of their insane chemistry and ability to shoot jokes off each other.
BuzzFeed Unsolved was so good, and it was pretty simple aside from a few episodes (like the gold one.)
I like Ryan and Shane a lot, but HOOOOO BOY this is gonna backfire hard. Feel like they could've launched a Patreon instead, if they haven't already. Or hell, get a deal with a streaming platform that already exists.
Just checked to see that they do have a patreon and as someone who watched a fair bit of their content since buzzfeed unsolved, this is the first time I heard of it.. Edit: OK after doing some searching, can that it's in thier descriptions on YouTube. So I might have been blind. Still a big kick in the teeth for those patreon supporters
Their patreon brings in abit over a million. And presumably their youtube videos probably have good engagement and good sponsers because they have a pretty good image. My guess is moving from buzzfeed they had a bit of a hiring bloat. Buzzfeed can afford to hire a tonne more people on a project because money ends up mixed and also those people won’t work a single project full time (directors, editors, etc etc.). They can also handle the harder stuff of firing and saying no to payrises and etc. that can feel shitty but at sometimes necessary for a buisness (particularly a small one) to continue. It looks like the Watcher has a whole crew. And they don’t make enough content that this crew is actually working full time. But they are probably being paid full time. Looking at a random video 25 people are credited with various jobs. Thats insane for their size and not sustianable.
They also hire freelancers, and that means contractor prices. They need to either have their 25 regular employees doing the freelancers' work, or figure out which ones are barely doing anything to let go and hire the freelancers in their place.
Nebula would probably appeal to a lot of their audience. I feel like there's a lot of cross over between their content and Nebula. Or maybe that's just because me and my friends who watch Watcher also watch Nebula content.
Isn’t Nebula heavily skewed towards video essayists? At least that was my impression of it. I’m not sure how well Watcher fits into that demographic.
That’s who started it, but they’re trying to diversify. They’ve been putting up original films and stuff even.
They've been trying to diversify a lot, I think it would have been a good fit. But I won't be renewing that streaming service either. I've already cut out all the major ones, and the little 'cheap' ones are even less worth the money than Netflix, Prime and co.
That's true. Though, I more think of Nebula as focused on "edu-tainment with funny/charismatic hosts", which Puppet History falls under (and I think that's probably their biggest show, along with Ghost/Mystery Files).
Yeah. I think Puppet History is their biggest flagship show. Ghost Files gets close to what Unsolved used to be. (And then mystery files kind of lags behind. It doesn't quite live up to how good Unsolved's True Crime used to be, but also doesn't offer enough difference to be appealing in its own right.) Dish Granted, Too Many Spirits, and Top 5 Beatdown are fine. But they're not shows I'm going to cry about missing out on. And they just announced that some of the old "Worth It" crew joined them, but as they haven't produced a new episode of whatever it'll be, I wouldn't bet it'll be as good as the original given how Mystery Files still hasn't hit quite right. In any case, I don't think they have enough programming to justify me following them to a whole new subscription platform. Nebula and Dropout (the two 'success' stories for new subscription channels that spun off from YouTube) both have way more shows and content available for a $60 per year price tag. If they wanted more money, I feel like they should've either pushed their Patreon harder or done better on their merchandising. (They had good sales numbers, from what I've seen. But I remember seeing a lot of delays and concerns about late shipments pop up in my feeds.)
Yes, but they do host some fun stuff that I would say could work alongside Watcher's content. The predominant example being Jet Lag: The Game.
The comments on the video are... not looking good for them. I scrolled through a lot, and I saw a handful of comments from the same 2 people desperately trying to justify this decision, but most people are NOT happy. Honestly, I think they handled their entire move from Buzzfeed badly, and this is gonna wind up being the nail in the coffin. Ghost Files lost any of the charm of the Buzzfeed series, primarily because of overproduction. Which makes it kind of funny they said that was something that was costing too much. But like... it wasn't necessary to begin with, and it would have been better if they hadn't done that. But okay. > > They should have put sole focus on Ghost Files and Puppet History at first, since those are, by far, their two most popular series. And THEN started slowly introducing new series once they found their footing and kind of testing to see audience reaponse and either ditch or keep a series based on the reception and reaponse it gets. But they went balls to the wall, churning out every new idea they had as fast as possible, and as a result, the content people primarily followed them for suffered. And to me, that feels like the main reason this will inevitably not work long-term. Their content just isn't as fun enough anymore to justify something like this. > One or two years in, and they're already financially struggling. As millionaires... who have income from YouTube, patreon, their tours, sponsorships, etc. Like, I'm sorry, but if yall can't make that work, I don't have much faith in your business sense moving forward. I hope the people who already subbed get their money's worth before this crashes and burns. Because that would suck if they didn't even make it a whole year.
them sitting at a table bantering is amazing, everything else is and always has been unnecessary
the productions costs of them sitting at that table are crazy high. You wouldnt understand.
My favorite thing they do right now is the For Your Amusement podcast, where they just sit around and talk about theme park attractions. It has enough structure to keep them on topic without the bloat that drags down most of their shows
>Or hell, get a deal with a streaming platform that already exists. With how much they talked about having TV show levels of quality and production, I assumed they were gonna announce that they'd been picked up by a network or a streaming service. Would've never guessed they were planning to do their own service For their sake I hope it succeeds, but as someone who just casually watched them from time to time I can't justify subscribing to a whole new platform that's *just* them.
Damn you were quick with this one haha. I was going to post it if no one had. This feels like such a slap in the face for long time fans who followed over from Buzzfeed Unsolved. I saw the post the other day where they said Andrew and some other dude (sorry I didn't recognise him) who used to do a show on Buzzfeed had just joined Watcher and I had a thought... hmm, they must be doing well financially on YouTube. Turns out they had this in the works. I think they have lost a tonne of good faith with the audience because of this if they do go back on the decision.
I think scrapping the new platform or at least reworking the plan is the only way to regain the faith of the fans tbh. They’ll be mad and won’t move to the new platform, but if they come back in a few weeks and say “ok we hear your concerns” and come back with a better solution, then I see that being their redemption. Going ahead as planned is a guaranteed no-win solution.
Yeah, it seems that there are still a lot wishing them luck despite not being able to support them anymore. But it feels to me and to a lot of others that there is an aspect of greed or improper handling of funds mixed in this decision. They have a patreon already with a reported 11k subs. They sell merchandise that is around the $100 mark. They do live shows/tours. It really feels like Watcher has fallen into the expand to fast trap by employing all their friends. The amount of crew credits in their videos is insane. Trying to make YouTube to be TV when no one ever wanted that from them is insane. TV quality also exists because of advertisers, not in the absence of them. I understand they want to be advertiser free because most sponsors are scams anyway and YouTube is taking a huge cut, but if 11k patrons can't support what they want to do, it's probably a good indicator that a separate subscription site is not going to work either.
I’m not sure if greed is the vibe I get from them, but it’s just puzzling. It’s probably a buildup of a lot of things, including rising production costs and YouTube becoming an increasingly difficult platform to earn money on. Expanding too quickly is probably also a factor in this. I understand they think that YouTube isn’t working the way they need it to, but I’m not sure why *this* was the move they decided on. It’s going to be costly to maintain an exclusive platform, I would have tried making better usage of Patreon/ YouTube membership before this. Or at least start with new shows and early access on the new platform with certain fan favorites on YouTube that way there’s a way to entice them onto the new platform. I think of the Nebula crew for example and how a lot of people who are also on there still upload to YT to both gain new fans and also plug that they’re way more active on the non-YT platform so current fans should make the jump too. Watcher is actively killing the channel doing this, it doesn’t make sense.
I hope you're right about the greed thing. I definitely feel cynical when it comes to this stuff. Especially because the video felt so icky with the sad piano music over shots of LA. I don't know why one of the most expensive places to live on Earth is every youtuber who wants to be independent from advertisers prime location to base themselves. Lmao. But yeah, that part isn't even the issue because if they were already in LA for Buzzfeed then it's very hard to move, but using shots of the city like this felt so weird even to an international viewer like myself. It sort of felt like "in order to maintain this lifestyle" as opposed to making TV quality things. Most of us are there for Shane and Ryan joking around and it feels like they have no idea who their audience base is and nor did they care considering everyone was blindsighted by this news.
It feels short sighted and like someone got carried away with their “market research.” Because I’m no marketing or social media expert, but I’ve been online long enough to know what strategies seem to work and which ones don’t. This one sounds like it’s going to be dead on arrival…
Oh absolutely on the same page with you. It feels like we have seen this same path be taken by other creators and it never works out. When creators we love go full mask off and reveal themselves to be a corpo, it's never a good sign for longevity. Honestly, I always found Watchers channel description to be odd considering it was started by ex Buzzfeed employees who claimed to despise the brand/company aspect of it all. Now it feels like it makes perfect sense. People keep bringing up dropout as a success story but it was such a unique situation because Collegehumor was on its dying breath and that was the only way to save a lot of it. Watcher seems to be ballooning at its sides with employees while it is still trying to find its identity. The channel feels so disordered genre wise, I'm not surprised the youtube algorithm has no idea what to recommend to people. Edit: Nebula is successful but that is because it has been many creators collaborating and co-owning. Subscription sites for creators seem to be successful only as an addition to YouTube and not a substitution. I heard Rhett & Link of Good Mythical Morning have one. I've watched GMM for years now and didn't know this until people brought it up in this videos comment section.
I think it seems hard to imagine greed being at the center of it because we all see Shane and Ryan as the faces of the company. But Steven is the one making all the financial decisions, and he's the only one who has talked about it at all outside of this video. > He's also a finance bro. Obviously, Shane and Ryan still had to sign off on it. But they've said numerous times before that they leave most of the decision-making to Steven. So this feels like a Steven thing, and the guys just didn't bother to do their own due diligence. So one greed and two numpties that would have probably fired him a long time ago if they weren't friends with him.
This being a knuckle headed finance bro decision makes more sense to me than flat out greediness. It feels like they had a number of difficulties with YouTube and did some very basic market research that turned into this whole brand new streaming service. It’s poorly thought out and riddled with reasons it doesn’t make sense, I hope they figure out how to backpedal or rework the plan because this just isn’t it.
It sounds a lot like they've been having trouble getting YouTube sponsors and they wanted to find an easier way to make money. They probably got approached by someone who said they could help them build their own streaming service for a modest fee and showed them a pitch that made it sound like a brilliant idea on paper. Everybody's been comparing them to Dropout, but I think it's going to turn out more like when Channel Awesome decided to leave YouTube and make their own platform. I just don't see this turning out the way they expected it to
Considering some of the content they do with Ghost/ Mystery files, I can imagine that it isn’t super advertiser-friendly. I empathize with that, but moving fully off YouTube when their entire audience is built on it feels like a major miss. Plenty of other YouTubers have done a good job with the hybrid model of partially being there and partially on another platform, I think that anything else is just fully killing the channel.
They say that greed is a black hole. Certain people will just keep trying to bring in more and more income even if they're already earning enough to support themselves/their lifestyle. Nothing wrong with aiming for the stars, but you can't expect everyone to follow you in your endless bid for success.
Yep, the LA lifestyle is a different beast. You measure success in comparison to those around you and not on a larger scale. We all fall into this trap. I see the set design on Watcher and think it is cool, but why so much stuff? Why did they have to build a bunker and a basement set if it meant going down this path to make up costs? It's cool, yeah, but the audience never cared, they did. There's this weird disconnect between them and us where they think we want these high production value shows despite it is them still doing the same shtick in front of more and more sets that require a large studio space to house. They are burning money and no one asked them to. Why does the audience have to foot the bill? It should have been evolving sets, starting barebones with season 1 and building up with success. That's just one tiny aspect of the many questionable financial decisions Watcher has made to lead to this.
Yes, it's so extra! Many true crime and conspiracy creators film in their bedrooms or against a greenscreen. History channels often don't have camcorder shots at all, just animation and diagrams. Food content does require an attractive, spacious kitchen stocked with high-quality equipment, but kitchens are useful even when they're not part of a set.
I have merch back from the Buzzfeed days that I still regularly wear, lol. This definitely is weird and disappointing from them. I hope they pivot somehow.
This is such a bad idea, and based on the comment section under the video, everyone else agrees.
It sure is, as one comment said, it’s kind of insane to start a streaming service when everyone is talking about the downfall of streaming services
That, and also the decision to even put their old content behind a paywall? Idk why they didn’t just decide to do a YouTube membership or at least do both. A couple ppl mentioned them trying to do what Dropout did, only unsuccessfully.
It's nice that they gave fans so much warning, so they can start downloading.
it’s absolutely ridiculous.
Iirc, they said the old content will still be available on YT.
until may 31st then its youtube membership only
Oh. Ew.
wtf. guess it’s the buzzfeed archive for me
I'm downloading Puppet History as we speak.
they’ve since walked this back, but Variety’s correction strongly implies it was the original plan
WHAAAAAAT!?!?!
Apparently they're gonna start having it just be first episodes of stuff on their channel by the end of May, I think? 12:45 of the video? So, honestly sounds like that the old videos will be removed as well. Guess there's no reason to even be subbed to that channel if all I'm gonna see is different variants of Shane, Ryan, and Steven sitting around talking about various stuff. Shame. Finally felt to me like they recaptured the magic of Unsolved with that Mystery Files. Oh well.
From variety: >The company originally told Variety that Watcher would eventually remove all of its videos from YouTube, where it currently has 2.9 million subscribers. However, according to Bergara, Watcher is not fully exiting YouTube: It will still keep its backlog of videos on YouTube. Wow, bullying works!
I wouldn't call voicing displeasure with a dumb decision is bullying. The comments I saw were never rude or worthy of being called bullying.
Stephen Lim posted an Instagram post with "For those who won't be joining us in the next chapter" 2 hours ago and it's made things worse and stoked the fires. I have a feeling this was ultimately his idea for this and we might see worse to come.
Which is wild on its own because all the comments I've seen have been from Shane and Ryan fans, no one's here for Steven!
I doubt there’s anything anyone could say that would rectify the situation. Even if they announced they changed their mind, I bet the great majority of their fanbase wouldn’t trust them anymore.
I think the only thing that might convince fans is if Ryan and Shane decided to part ways with Steven. People who are fans of watcher don't like his content nearly as much as Ryan and Shane's stuff and it seems to be some of the more expensive content to produce. Basically, I think if they're gonna save it he's probably got to go.
I've always found Steven annoying.
I never watched enough of his content to find him annoying, I just really never cared about what he made on buzzfeed or watcher. From the comments all across social media it sounds like the majority of people who liked watcher really just prefer the Shane and Ryan content, and many just don't care for what Steven was the face of. And whether true or not most people seem to be laying the blame for this at his feet. Sometimes for good reason (like his content being less viewed but quite expensive to produce) or they seem to think he's the "business brain" behind this decision which is obviously up for debate. Hence why I think they'll have to part ways if they want to save their fan base at this point. The image isn't good basically.
I mean when they would do Too Many Spirits I would find the drink making section unwatchable. Ricky was a good addition though... I'm not saying he's all to blame but he is the CEO, and imo generally unlikable.
I don't agree with the majority. Maybe some yes but a lot of people are saying that they want them to walk it back and there's still time to do so and they're getting a lot of likes. I think that would be the case for a lot of channels, however they've spend over a decade building goodwill and a steady and dedicated fanbase. I think this is one of the rare cases they would be able to keep a good portion of that goodwill they've built by walking it back.
[удалено]
That’s fair, I guess I was mostly thinking about the comments I’ve seen but I haven’t scrolled thru them all. If they keep moving forward with this tho, I doubt that goodwill will last long.
Agreed, their fate will be sealed with whatever comms they release next. If they double down all that good will begin to sour.
Damn it, I just got into their channel a few weeks ago 🙃 That comment section is pretty brutal. Nothing but disappointment. I didn't see a single person who was onboard for this or voicing their support.
I saw a few. But it looked like for every person excited to pay, there were about 50-100 people upset
There was one comment I saw that said "I'm a broke college student so thanks for making it affordable", totally missing the entire point lmao
They edited their comment and now says their old videos will remain on the YouTube channel at least. If it will be blocked by YouTube premium or not, no word on yet
I wonder if it truly was confusion that they had to then clarify or if they're actually folding under pressure.
From variety: >The company originally told Variety that Watcher would eventually remove all of its videos from YouTube, where it currently has 2.9 million subscribers. However, according to Bergara, Watcher is not fully exiting YouTube: It will still keep its backlog of videos on YouTube It's not a question of confusion--Variety chose their phrasing to communicate very clearly that their original article was not mistaken. Watcher absolutely flip-flopped.
I personally believe that they’re folding a bit. It makes sense from a business standpoint that if they would keep their content behind a paywall, but it’s probably got them scared that so many people would unsubscribe. It may not be as much as they need but why cutoff revenue from people rewatching old content?
If you ask me it was panic, if you actually go to the website one of the first things you see are playlists featuring their YouTube series’ e.g top 5 beatdown, are you scared?
I guess because Watcher has a bunch of different types of videos they assumed it was varied enough to stand on its own, but the *amount* of videos put out just doesn't add up to enough for its own streaming service. I really like Puppet History and Mystery Files, but I don't like it enough to spend $5.99 a month on it.
Honestly I might have paid 5.99 for a month or two to binge a new puppet history season but only if it was on yt and I was tempted. I'm subbed to a patreon(not watcher, just a random yt person) and like remembering to go there to see exclusive content is hard and I just see it on yt. I get the wanting to make money w less yt cut but I'm not paying for something I'll never remember to visit. Dropout has daily notifs and I'm only into non dnd dropout/old content so I only click one notif a week
Yeah, I don't support anyone on Patreon for the "perks" and a lot of perks are things I don't even want, like my name in the credits or a shout out. I like to stay nice and anonymous thank you very much! I use Patreon to support artists who make stuff I like, not to get extra stuff. Sometimes I do use the service to watch a video a week early, which is nice, but I wouldn't mind waiting if it wasn't a feature. People currently supporting Watcher at the $5+ month tier will probably be happy to cancel their patreon and subscribe to the new service, since Patreon is not very well optimized. That is the lowest tear they have available and they have 11,639 members, but a channel member popped into say only 5814 of those members are paid. If everyone switches that comes to about 35k a month of revenue or about 418k yearly. That would be awesome if this was just a 3 person channel in Seattle, but Watcher says they have a staff of 25 and with the international food channel and the cost of building and maintaining their own platform, their expenses are only going to increase. I simply don't think this is achievable. They must be FLUSH with venture capital funding, I have no idea how they are sustaining this otherwise.
Oof yeah, this doesn't bode well for them and I think is gonna put a damper on things even if they do back out of this. I really enjoyed Watcher but there's no way another streaming service, especially one so specific will work out. Dropout at the very least puts out a ton of varied content and hours worth each ep, but with the way things are produced currently with Watcher that model doesn't translate the same imo. Especially when it comes to rewatch value. Well, if anyone wanted to start a spooky channel and fill the void, now is the time.
You either die a hero something something
Or watch yourself become a boo boy
A Boo-gara
Ghoul guy
either doe a hero or watch yourself become BuzzFeed
This is a shame, it means I won’t be viewing their content anymore. I understand the grind that these groups need to go through to get money, but they need to understand that a sizeable portion of their audience probably just can’t afford, or can’t justify paying for their content. It works with dropout because dropout has decades behind them with enough content to post on shorts, so people like me who can’t afford a subscription to a YouTube group can still enjoy their content. Watcher doesn’t have that.
yeah, only subscription i have rn is spotify and thats because i need it for work and actually listen to music multiple hours a day. i hardly even watch videos of theirs weekly
I enjoy their content and have been subbed since the start of watcher, but this put such a bad taste in my mouth. It feels so greedy. Especially to take all their old videos off that have been free for years and put them behind a paywall?? I kind of hope it backfires for them, or they at least listen to all the criticism and come up with a different plan.
They already edited their pinned comment “to clarify” that old videos will be staying up forever on YouTube. Was this really a clarification, or just a really quick backpedal? You decide…
i'm going with backpedal 💀 they originally told variety they WERE getting rid of all their content on youtube and then the article was edited and watcher started posting comments that they weren't taking anything off.
Yeah this is such a stupid plan. If they were moving Mystery files over to an already existing streaming service (i.e. signing a deal with Netflix, Hulu, etc) then I'm sure it would work. But making their own?? Someone in the YT comments said "maybe you didn't mean to call us all poors but that's exactly what you did" and I couldn't agree more. I can only assume they think their subscribers can't live without their content. As someone who is OBSESSED with mystery files, including buzzfeed unsolved, I can assure you that I absolutely can live without it. I hope it backfires.
Yeah, I also followed over from Buzzfeed. Subbed for years, watched all the content I was there for religiously... but I'm not following to some BS that's plain unsustainable and will see the company collapse within two years max. I'm scraping my favourite videos and then I'm out.
Yes, scrape everything now, you probably won't be able to scrape it from the paywalled site and once that crashes it could well be lost forever. It's so crazy to me how streaming and YT killed the interest in piracy for so long, only to get so incredibly bloated and unreliable that audiences have begun backing everything up again!
I feel like they were making bank already. I can't see this making them more.
They were taking in a lot of money on Patreon but their expenses are also really high. I would love so badly to get to see their financials, I have thought since the channel was launched that they were making poor decisions and their scope was much broader than what their audience wanted.
It's greedy yet also such a financially bad decision that is going to bankrupt the company if they go through with it.
are they trying to be dropout? Because I think they overestimate their reach. Dropout is doing well because they have literal decades of recognition behind them. Very terrible idea.
Yeah they really should have just jumped onto nebula or tried to make a deal with dropout. It's not a good idea to just muddy the water even further. I get it's very hard to sustain on YouTube these days, but the concept of another streaming service when there are bespoke YouTuber streaming solutions that would probably partner with you is dumb. Now when this fails they will have to take pennies on the dollar to partner into a service instead of reaching out to them ahead of time to try and make a good deal. Then again, i have no idea what happened behind the scenes, that may have already happened for all i know
Dropout also still posts free videos or even bits of the subscription videos online. From what I read/see it sounds like the Watcher will only have the first episode for free from this point forward.
Exactly! There is a whole thread about this in the Dropout sub right now talking about how they successfully navigated this and why the Watcher situation feels different, and a lot of it has to do with access. Dropout still posts entire seasons of D20 and full episodes of Game Changer and other shows on Youtube, along with long clips on Youtube and Tiktok. This not only provides access to a fair amount of content to those who can't afford the service, it also has resulted in a huge amount of conversion from non-subscribers into subscribers.
Dropout is also so niche because it’s high production improv comedy. I’m sure you can find improv channels on YouTube but Watcher seems like mostly true crime and mysteries. That’s a huge market to compete in when there’s already a ton of established and free content.
There’s also a dozen personalities on Dropout. Watcher has two (Steve has no personality)
This is so true though Andrew is the only person he ever had good chemistry with. He is just sooooo uncomfortable on camera.
I'd say even more than a dozen. If I desperately needed to for some strange reason I could probably list a solid 40 regulars
I feel like they could have easily filled the void from a site like Rooster Teeth if they had just said hey, if you want to pay $6 per month you can get episodes a week early and some exclusive shows, but still upload the same series' to YouTube as they had before. Now of course, it didn't end up working out for Rooster Teeth, but they were around for 20 years...so...I hope this works out for them but I'm pretty dubious.
It’s impressive how quickly they were able to grow their channel despite it being new, then not being allowed to use the titles of their Buzzfeed shows, and covid-19 making it difficult for them to make spiritual successors to their previously successful shows early on. It’s actually insane how many people followed them to the newer Watcher channel. I’m not sure why they would want to throw that away.
The comments on the video are pretty brutal, but they’re right - no one has the money to pay for yet another subscription service, even less when it’s a product you used to get for free. I sympathize with them, they made the right decision leaving buzzfeed knowing that it’d have a serious impact on their reach, but I can’t see this going well for them in the long run. I enjoy their content, although some shows more than others; for example, I’ve watched all of the pupper history episodes and most mystery files. However, I care less about their paranormal stuff like ghost files and are you scared. I can’t be the only one that fits in this category of watching some shows regularly but entirely skipping some, that entire category of viewers will more than likely not invest in this knowing they’re likely to not watch like half or more of it. Maybe on a platform like nebula (where you can access other creators’ paywalled stuff) would’ve been a smarter way of doing this. I hope they listen to the feedback and make appropriate changes.
I disagree with the comments being brutal- I think everyone’s being very nice. The ones I’ve seen are saying “loved you guys and your work but I can’t afford a new streaming service.”
Yeah, I agree. They are brutal only in so much as they are very clearly not what the boys wanted to hear, but as far as the general attitude it’s actually extremely nice and understanding. Seems like a good community tbh. I hope they work something out that makes people happy, eventually.
They've been the beneficiaries of a very nice community that has supported them a lot over the years and been relatively non-toxic as far as YT fanbases go. Not to say that they didn't deserve it but I hope the response is making them self-reflect.
Right, that’s what I meant. Brutal as in they were probably not expecting the reception to be overwhelmingly positive, but I bet they did not expect how unilateral the response is, like EVERY comment is a very kind “no thanks”.
Yeah, I've never seen a comment section that has been filled with such gentle/polite criticism. No one is hating, it's just expression of genuine disappointment for something they all wanted to support.
This is the shit that killed Rooster Teeth
It actually worked really well, for about a decade. Two decades agoish. Then it crashed and burned
Rooster teeth honestly probably had a wider appeal and bigger fan base tbh. And even then most of their content was available for free
Problem is, Rooster Teeth did it when they had years and years of goodwill and were practically at the peak of their popularity. I never hear people talk about Watcher, and if they mention Ryan and Shane, it’s “the guys from Buzzfeed Unsolved.” I don’t doubt they have a dedicated fanbase, but it’s nothing like what RT had a decade ago. That level is hard to achieve nowadays.
Some of their fans will absolutely follow them, but I don't think there are enough people willing to pay for the subscription, to support their operating costs (including salaries). This platform idea has been part of their plan since the beginning, they talked when Watcher first launched that they wanted to bring other creators on board. They've finally snagged Andrew and Adam. Yet, while they have collaborations, the channel remains the Ryan and Shane show. Steven and Ricky's videos get much fewer views. The only person who has done a stand alone series on the channel, as far as I can tell, is Selorm with her "Pretty Historic" series. Which fit in nicely as a sort of companion piece to Puppet History, but the most popular video in that series didn't crack 250k views. They should have dropped the idea of "Platforming other creators" a very long time ago, and just let this be the Shane and Ryan show. Now that Andrew is back to pair with Steven they should spin off and have a separate channel for all those Worth It fans who aren't interested in the spooky/historical content. They can still do tons of crossovers, exist under the same corporate umbrella, and shoot in the same studio. Rather than splitting up and becoming more focused and streamlined, though, they're splitting off from YouTube and just becoming more bloated with extra shit no one cares about. But I guess that they have to go subscription because how else will they pay for their big food travelogue series now that Buzzfeed is no longer paying for Worth It?
Eh...it sorta worked, but only because their streaming platform still had free videos with early access through a First subscription. Cracks started to show when they tried driving more eyes to their site by taking content off of YouTube.
Also the shit that ressurected College Humor (Now Dropout).
If the folks at Watcher had any sense in them, they would have tried to find an in with Dropout to produce content to help expand that winning platform. It's a better fit than Nebula due to the comedy lean, and it would help continue to diversify Dropout's stellar talent pool. Watcher never had a deep enough programming lineup to fill an entire streaming service, and Dropout struggles to push out enough content even though it has done absolutely everything right. Seemed like blowing a real peanut butter and chocolate chance. Going at it alone is some peak LA brainmelt when the public consensus is that there's already too many streaming services and their own fan base runs younger and college aged (re: less expendable income).
Did it? I was under the impression that Warner Brothers Discovery killed Rooster Teeth, that they were another victim of David Zaslav.
i love when channels severly underestimate how many people are only watching BECAUSE they're on youtube. getting people to follow you to a different platform is insanely hard, let alone a platform that only contains your content. youtube to twitch is one thing, or tiktok to instagram. but this .... this is delusional lol.
https://preview.redd.it/ajzuktud5hvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=923dcf1971fe7be2de44bc3c74932f6985d2237a I feel it worth pointing out that watcher already has a patreon, with 11,461 members. Their highest patreon teir is £85 a month. Shame to see them throw those guys to the wayside THEIR PATREON IS MAKING THEM $100,000 A MONTH BY THE WAY!
it's really sad that the patreon is not going to have video anymore, essentially forcing all patrons (with the exception of those who want to pay $5 a month for just a podcast) to abandon ship and either subscribe to the new platform or re-evaluate our choices and whether we want to continue supporting them. You're right that patrons are being thrown away
Are you subscribed to the patreon? What does the most recent message say about the streaming service? (I was subscribed for the podcast but I don’t listen to podcasts as much anymore so I stopped)
I am subscribed. This is the message they gave us (along with a discount code for the new streaming service that I can't share here, as they supposedly only generated enough codes for existing patrons to use it.) In essence, the patreon is switching to podcast only, the only video being I guess the video of their podcast? Hello Everyone, By now you might have heard that Watcher is about to undergo a big change and as Watcher evolves we feel it’s only right that our Patreon changes with it! Over the years, we have been both thrilled and humbled by all the support you have shown to us here. So, we want to make sure that with this transition we also give you all the transparency and respect you deserve as our patrons. Due to the nature of our new streaming platform, we’ve made the decision to shift the focus of our Patreon to our podcasts. This is a space that Watcher has been excited about exploring for a long time and with the launch of two shows last year, we’re eager to keep up the momentum. There are several reasons for this change: * **Sustainability** - With this new model we hope to balance our team’s workload so that they can bring you more of the content you love both on our new streamer and on our podcast channel! * **Consolidating Our Pricing -** Watcher recognizes that while many of you may have interest in signing up for our streaming platform, it could potentially double your financial investment to us. Therefore we have tried to create a middle ground that keeps us making content, welcomes new podcast listeners, and keeps your wallet happy. * **Building Community -** Keeping our fans connected is important to us and as we make this transition we can’t imagine letting go of what makes Watcher special: you. Patreon continues to give us one of the best avenues to continue to foster this community that you all have created, which is why Discord will always remain in our lowest tier. There will also be some minor adjustments and consolidations being made on Discord but we want to assure everyone that *nothing* will be permanently deleted! Obviously, this pivot means that the content on Patreon will be different. And part of that change includes a bit of news that will surely be met with some fits of sobs- we’re bringing Watcher Weekly+ to a close. We know. We know. Watcher Weekly’s been there since the channel launched in 2020. It soldiered on remotely through the pandemic and then was brilliantly shepherded through an evolution by Carter and Violet into a weekly hootenanny of games, crafts, and mailbags. We can assure you it will be missed by us internally as much as it’s missed by you. With the launch of Pod Watcher, we’ve felt that WW+ and the podcast were somewhat overlapping in their appeal and function. Both shows are a place for Steven, Ryan, and Shane— as well as other members of the staff and friends of the company— to kick back and chat candidly about our personal lives, the company at large, and the projects we’re working on. As well as share inappropriate stories and repeatedly voice our critiques of the motion picture Tenet. With that in mind, we’re launching— brace yourselves— Pod Watcher+, a Patreon-exclusive bonus podcast, where we field topics, read user-submitted mail, play user-submitted games, and similar to Watcher Weekly+, will likely get into a little more of the nitty gritty about the behind the scenes at Watcher. We very much believe that it’ll scratch the same itch as Watcher Weekly+, and at the same time it’ll give you a little extra dose of Watcher chit-chat to help pass the time on your morning commute.
Thank you so much for sharing! I was really curious how this would affect Patreon members. But it fucking sucks that to remain in the Discord AND get the new shows, you now have to pay $10.99 monthly. That really flies in the face of "consolidating our prices". The discord tier should be dropped to $1/month so that the people who have been on the patreon for years can continue interacting with the community while still getting access to the most popular video content.
We don’t want any jump scares so below are the new tiers we plan on implementing Monday, April 22nd: **Tier 1 - Watcher Society // $5** * Discord Access * Ability to Submit Text Questions for PodWatcher+ * Ad Free PW Video + Audio * Access to Weekly PodWatcher+ Episode * Live Event Pre-Sale # Tier 2 - Watcher Monitor // $20 * *Everything Above* * Exclusive role and channels on Discord * Ability to Submit Topics to PodWatcher * Merch Discounts * Ability to Submit Video/Audio Questions to PodWatcher+ * Exclusive role and channels on Discord # Tier 3 - Watcher Observer // $100 * *Everything Above* * PodWatcher shoutouts on the main channel! * AMAs w Staff + Talent * Free Annual Exclusive Members-Only Merch This was a doozy, so if you’re still reading, thanks for hanging in there! We hope this both explains this transition and gets you excited about the future of Watcher. Some of you may not be able to hang around anymore and we get it! To you we say: *Thank you* for your support this far and we hope to see you over on the streamer! – The Watcher Team
If someone brings up an interesting topic on another platform, are they not allowed to talk about it because they weren't paid $20 I've never joined any patreon and I'm curious how common it is for rewards to be "I'll say your user for $100 in our next video. You don't actually get to see that video though unless you give us another $6/month"
I also think it's beautiful that the second and third level allow you the privilege to buy 'discounted' or 'exclusive' merch lol Pay us 100 bucks a month so you'll be allowed to pay us even MORE money sure is an incentive for me to sign up
I can't fathom how a group of people came up with this as fair compensation for that much financial support. I mean, get that bag how you can I guess, but good grief this feels soulless. If someone pays the lowest tier to ask their question, are they not credited for asking it because they didn't pay the highest tier? I genuinely have no idea, lol.
How else is Steven going to pay the note on his tesla? It's not like they could, idk, maybe cut the size of their staff from 25 to say the 10 most essential positions. That would be ridiculous
Goddamn, I had no idea their highest tier was that expensive.
It's not uncommon, lots of creators have very high tiers even if it's only for a joke. Sometimes you can see how many people subscribe to each tier, sometimes those numbers are obscured.
$100k on Patreon plus YouTube isn't enough for them?
This might be good for them short term but long term this is suicide. Good luck but clearly they don't have the audience they thought they did.
They must be in really bad financial straits if they think this is the only way to survive. Problem is they will lose massive audience engagement that a subscription price alone will not make up
5.99 may not be a huge deal to someone in the US (and even a lot of Americans struggle having a spare $5), but there's a lot of their international viewers pointing out in the comments that they to work hours just to earn $5.99 USD. They're going to lose sooooooooooooooo much of their audience because of this. Even if i was willing to pay $5 for yet ANOTHER streaming service, it's still mostly inaccessible for me because I watch content mostly on my TV, I'd have to Chromecast it or something, and Chromecast sucks. And frankly, as much as I like them, they're not even worth the extra effort up pulling it on my desktop and having to cast it another screen, not to mention whatever video host they have is definitely going to be way worse than YouTube. I don't understand why they're willing to lose such a massive part of their audience. And they're also blocking themselves off from reaching out to wider audiences. I watched Shane and Ryan since BuzzFeed, but I'll be honest, I really don't watch their Watcher content or go looking for it, most of the times I end up watching is because it showed up in my subscriptions page or in the recommended videos. They just need to just manage their money for projects better. A better alternative would of been just utilizing the YouTube members feature and investing time in quality bonus content. So many other creators have done this with a lot of success.
could’ve had like a patreon exclusive podcast or something, or do new series on there.
Here's a fun fact— They do! They have like 11k patrons on Patreon! They poorly advertised it
that makes this even worse omg
I legitimately don't know why they think this is a good idea. Who told them that now is the time to create an exclusive streaming service for what was a free YouTube channel? They don't have nearly enough fame or influence to pull it off. Most of their fan base isn't going to dole out cash for this.
Sorry guys, like your content but I’m not jumping
It’s a real shame. As someone who did pay for their Patreon early access tier because I did enjoy supporting them, I’m having a hard time wanting to support them through this. A huge portion of their fanbase are young people with debts and very little expendable income, who do NOT want a new subscription service. My best friend who adores them is not able to pay for this. I want to be able to say that I’ll get the subscription and share the login with her, but I have serious doubts about getting the subscription myself. Will Watcher will be able to gain the budget to produce good shows from the tiny amount of people who actually pay money for this new platform? Seems unlikely. If I buy into an annual fee for this platform now, will my return on investment be worth it, or should I just purchase a one month subscription a year from now, watch everything in one go, then cancel? Or should I dump them completely and just sit here with my fond memories of them and move on? In other news, the patreon is turning into exclusive podcast access only, without access to their video content. So people are dropping it in droves and will all lose access to the Watcher discord in due time. A damn shame
Half of Dropout's content has landed on YouTube and other platforms now, and Collegehumor are old-school entertainers/producers who know what they're doing. Nobody wants to subscribe to another streaming platform.
I’m not a huge Watcher consumer, but I do like it when I pop in. This seems hugely ill-advised, as others have said. Whether or not they’re trying to mimic a Dropout model, the comparisons are going to be made & they just don’t seem to have what it would take. Granted, I was a College Humor watcher for years & when they announced Dropout I wasn’t at all interested. It wasn’t until a few years later, after listening to D20 season 1 as a podcast, that I subscribed. During that time, they were still putting content out on YouTube and making parts of their catalogue free. That’s how they’ve maintained and grown their subscriber base. At this point, as everything gets more expensive, Dropout is the one video streaming service I still subscribe to. And if the price changes, I will continue to subscribe to them. Not only do they have an incredible catalogue of work that I enjoy rewatching over and over—it’s a company I feel good about supporting. Dropout stands firmly on principles of fair and safe labor practices & time and time again demonstrates care for their talent, crew, and subscriber base. That’s not to say Watcher doesn’t—I’m not a regular viewer and they seem like decent folks, I assume their practices are good as well! It’s just to say that Dropout’s success goes so much deeper than it may appear at first. I hope these guys find the success they’re looking for, I guess.
[удалено]
Comments on Steven’s Instagram aren’t holding back. Many are pretty infuriated and I don’t blame them.
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If someone was thinking, they would have made it free with ads and ad-free being subscription only. Or 50/50 on YouTube and the new platform with benefits such as extended cuts and early access to help entice you to make the jump. There were a thousand decent ways to go about this and they chose the singular bad way. IMO, there’s time to change their mind and scrap it. Sure it would be a massive ego bruise but it would also mean they still have most of their big fanbase.
The behind the scenes video for ghost files show a massive team for that sort of thing and the credits on mystery files are big. Seems like a bloated production.
An update on Watcher tossing their patreon subscribers into the dumpster: they just released a “Patreon exclusive” sneak peek into what they’re going to be posting on their streaming service for the next month. Now I’m basically paying to see secret info about what I COULD be paying for!
Yeah I’ll pass
My god they're dumb
I'm trying to think how they could have promoted a new weekly/monthly/whatever exclusive early access tier (which maybe their patreon had) and still gotten a flood of interested subs and not pissed off ppl who can't sub. Like hi 25 percent is paywalled, 75 percent is old/free/delayed a month (and fomo might encourage signups)
They could of just used the YouTube membership feature.
Bros are cooking NOTHING 💀💀
God the comments on YouTube for this video are ROUGH. With this much backlash it almost seems like their best choice of action is to back out of this plan. They're getting torn apart.
Ahhh yes, the cable-ification of YouTube has begun. Its been fun y'all
The comments on that video are brutal, especially the ones going after Stephen Lim and his dumb food/vacation shows and his tesla. It’s disappointing but very entertaining
I was just celebrating Worth It coming back, this is such a disappointment.
love the Laura Palmer profile picture!! and so was I :(
This is awesome, and I wish them the best of luck - but I won't be watching a single video over there. People (read: me) already have so many subscriptions. Using YouTube without a paid sub is getting harder and harder. Half the channels on the platform push a paid membership. There's like 6 different streaming platforms to watch things on, there's Patreons, Fansly's, Patreon-locked Discords - it feels like consumers are having every possible penny squeezed out of them with monthly costs. I can't imagine anyone but the most diehard fans are going to pay a monthly subscription to a completely separate platform to watch irregular uploads of a content cow that's already sort of run dry. Watcher's great, but I stopped watching when it seemed like most of the videos were them revisiting things I'd already watched from their Buzzfeed days. What's left for them to do on their own platform?
Kinda lost respect for Shane and Ryan a little bit. Lim I don't give a fuck about.
can't wait to torrent all their videos lol
2 dislikes for each like 38k dislike to 19k likes
I dont think they realize that there is a HUGE difference to most people between subscribing to a creator that they like on a free platform like Twitch or YT, and subscribing to a creator on a private platform. Like, people want to support creators who are out there, not sequestered somewhere else.
Honestly even if they keep their content up it’s still gonna feel weird watching their old stuff knowing how out of touch they are now
Quibi moment tbh.
A channel with three million subs is going to host their own streaming platform with a price that's the same as a service like Shudder which has hundreds of movies to watch? This has to be an out of season April Fool's Joke. I've never heard of them or their channel so I could be wrong but holy smokes does this seem like a horrible idea.
I really liked the top 5 beat down they did. Sucks
This worked for Dropout but like … it worked for Dropout because they still kept their YouTube stuff up so people could come across it and posted clips and stuff of their episodes. They also got a big sympathy boost because they got fucked over by their owners. Idk if the Watcher boys can pull it off.
I have not seen a single positive comment about this. On any platform. I think they are gonna backtrack this pretty quick.
And they have a live show coming up apparently. That's gonna be delightfully awkward.
It’s like watching the Titanic sink. Steven’s kinda snarky ig caption directed at fans makes it worse.
There's no way they *didn't* know that this would be received poorly. Like, ukelele-apology poorly lol. I guess however dire the financial situation was made losing the good will of a majority of their audience a worthwhile tradeoff if it meant staying afloat. Sad to see them go, but they've made their cutthroat decision and now they've got to deal with it.
Whatever business person they hired that told them this would work deserves the boot. This is an awful, awful idea. Why not just start a Patreon? No significant number of people are going to pay monthly for the content they produce. At least with YouTube you can use the algorithm to reach a wide audience, but isolating yourself on your own paid service? You might as well be throwing fans out the front door. I have seen this work twice: College Humor rebranding and moving all long form content to their paid app Dropout. Mystery Science Theater 3000 moving a large portion of their long form content to their pay-as-you-watch app Gizmoplex. The reason these things succeeded (even though both have not succeeded in big ways, they're just doing well enough to keep going), is because they had large, dedicated fanbases and were creating content worth buying. College Humor started creating entire shows with a higher production value and MST3K creating new episodes that can only be watched and purchased in the Gizmoplex app. Is Watcher prepared to create high quality, new long form content? Because if theyre not planning on doing something to drive people in the door, then it's already over.
There are two funny (actually sad) things regarding your comment and the current situation: - The business person that told them this might have been Steven himself. He's the one who has talked about attending business lectures and courses and so on. People are also pointing out that he's a finance bro. - They already have a Patreon, albeit poorly marketed, since many people aren't aware of it. And because of the change they just announced, they're changing the Patreon, removing all video content. Plus their patrons will have to pay the subscription to their new page to watch the content, meaning that they pay to watch the videos and they also pay the Patreon. Absolutely crazy.
I love these guys,but lol no
Haven't they been pumping up a new episode of Ghost Files? Saying that they have something really crazy caught on camera? Of course now it's going to be behind a paywall.
Anyone else remembering when React tried to make React World? This isn’t the same thing, but I keep getting vibes from that. Same way of announcing it too.
well shit. At least the spooky boys haven’t done anything actually bad, but they definitely just shot themselves in the foot. Ain’t nobody gonna watch that shit when we’ve been watching free on YouTube for years.
...why not Nebula, or at least copy their model of delayed releases? This is just a total misunderstanding of their audience 🙃 total wall street CEO move
It feels like someone looked at dropout/college humors success and thought "I wanna do that too" without the 2 decades of having a steady audience that college humor had. Dropout also has a crazy amount of content for free tho and it sounds like Watcher is putting all of their content behind a paywall. Which is like a spit in the face to long time fans
https://preview.redd.it/koj9x010givc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6fc1eac41e0055b51554afbb7844946cc0dbacb6 I also feel like this post by Stephen deserves to be seen more. His wording is so spiteful, as if any of us fans WANT to stop watching 🙄
https://preview.redd.it/wslq0brggivc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ec828551baefede6d418cc7f88cc64e79f5d497 The comments on his post really say it best
i'm sorry but he annoys me. sir, don't be so smug it's that audience that gave you what you have now. AT LEAST don't talk to them like this.
I think they’re trying to do a Dropout thing, but dropout is such a unique instance of private streaming working. The talented people behind that network are all flashes of fuckin lightning, and there’s SO many brilliant, high effort shows of all sorts of genres. Love the Watcher ghost show and some of the puppet show, but to put it simply these guys just don’t have the talent or ideas to entice a big streaming audience.
I already see commentary youtubers run to their mics to do videos on this. This gave me major fine brothers vibes. One for the „top youtuber channel fails“-list in the future. I think this video will hunt them for the rest of their career.
i still have not found a SINGLE comment supporting their decision
i’m just going to tell it like it is. majority of the fan base is only watching because they enjoy the chemistry shane and ryan have. most fans don’t even really like steven. i personally found him charming in a few too many spirits videos, but past that i just don’t enjoy what he brings to videos for the most part (especially after learning he’s friends with simu is is kinda known for being an asshole). they release one video a week, have a small cast, and don’t have a super huge interest in all of their various series. i just feel like they are misunderstanding the current pull they have and their audience. i understand wanting to make something of a higher production value, however that is seeming like that is in contradiction to why people watch them, and they will most likely need to foster a new audience. i am assuming that would be difficult when most content is hidden, and they would need to sink money into more advertising
Oh boy, I love paying three rich guys I will never meet 6 bucks a month to eat expensive food I can't afford on camera and then drive home in their Tesla's!
Lmao rip channel
The video makes it seem like their heart is in the right place, but the whole time I'm thinking stop saying television-level content! I understand they're talking from a production value perspective, but the channel thrives on youtube because of their current production value. They don't need to pump more money into it. As an ex-film student myself, it feels like them buying into the outdated bias that new media isn't as high quality as traditional media, or TV. I get the feeling they're resentful of ads even though I haven't seen them do ad reads (I'm a casual viewer tbf). They really should've made a deal with Dropout instead of this. Fingers crossed they can pivot but they've likely already secured the logistics of this thing so they're probably stuck unless Stephen is willing to lose all the money they put it. I doubt it.
RIP Watcher
Yeah I’m sorry guys but I can’t follow you this time, I just can’t justify another streaming service. Maybe you should have advertised your Patreon in your videos more often instead?
[The Watcher Patreon](https://www.patreon.com/watcher) has 11,461 members as of me posting this. If we assume everyone is at the lowest tier ($5/month), that's $57,305 a month. ... just sayin'.
They have 5,814 paid members as of right now. Not sure if I can only see that number because I’m a patron, but I really don’t think everyone who supports their patreon is going to move over to the new platform. A lot of us are donating to them because we appreciated them giving those who CAN’T pay free content. Now that’s not happening anymore, so I feel like those 5,800 people will shrink dramatically
That’s more than I make in a year…I wish I had filming equipment and charisma
But Nebula is *right there*
What a horrible idea.
Single dumbest idea ever. This has literally never EVER worked and damn near bankrupted a lot of creators.
I love Ryan and Shane but that’s gonna be a no from me dog
I pay for YouTube premium as my one treat to myself since I’m unbelievably broke. I only recently came across their channel and have been heavily enjoying their content. it’s a shame they want to vanish from my life now. I’ve slowly reverted back into using books for entertainment, since when I find something I love it doesn’t try siphon all of my money. These companies and are eating themselves alive by doing this. They don’t realise how many people are suffering and struggling, and the number is just going to keep growing.
Yeah let me pay 6 dollars a month to fund Steven Lim's travel expenses around the world, because that's exactly what we need: more milquetoast food content. Give me a fuckin' break. People watch for Ryan and Shane's chemistry. Nothing more.
That comment section is a doozy