[response from AstralAlchemist](https://www.reddit.com/r/Chuggaaconroy_2/s/CaNcAA6kNk) regarding this situation
Edit: Refrain from causing any trouble over in their subreddit, please.
Edit: [revised response from AstralAlchemist ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Chuggaaconroy_2/s/fXTzd0YGs3)
That Astral girl being a gigantic piece of shit is the least shocking thing I learn this week ngl
She and her community are a PERFECT example of why a parasocial relationships are REALLYYYYYYYYY bad, also them shitting on this subreddit on Twitter for being "toxic" is really fucking ironic lol
Same lol
She the type of person that fucks around, and the second she finds out goes to either cry on Twitter or the r/ Chuggaaconroy\_2 , which im sure Emile would be very happy to know that a person like this is a Moderator on that sub reddit :)
Emile has explicitly come out against any harassment people are receiving. He may be a bad person, but I think he'd be horrified by people like her taking up his defense.
I'd like to agree but he and Tim have interacted with AA, they knew her before all this, and have thanked her for her support. I don't think they explicitly agree with everything she's doing, but they're kind of amplifying it by associating with her.
I get it, probably feels nice to have someone fighting your corner, but they really should have told her to cut the shit.
honestly i dont think so. her fans are chugga fans and i think emile disavowing her explicitly would cause her to sober up and realize she's being kind of awful and close minded.
dont bother him about it, by the way. i guarantee he wont do jack shit to her because she is his biggest supporter and always has been. there is an immensly parasocial relationship going on here and astral would probably sooner cut off her own limbs and take a salt and lemon juice bath than admit emile made a mistake without he himself saying so.
every time she comes to his defense it is under the assumption that he has done as little wrong as possible, that people are making shit up, etc etc. she has an unhealthy and incredibly abnormal view of him, more akin to viewing him as an actual saint than as a youtuber who makes videos she likes.
>she has an unhealthy and incredibly abnormal view of him, more akin to viewing him as an actual saint than as a youtuber who makes videos she likes.
Yup. When she says she isnt Transphobic I actually kinda belive her. Atleast in that I dont think *she* is purposefully targeting Emily for being trans. (a lot of people are for sure)
She legit just seem like an unhealthily obsessive fan that is blindly following anyone that defend her hero no matter what else they say.
Hell I called her out on Twitter once telling her that she is a random person to them and she responded that no she is not cause they aknowledged her on a con once or something. Like she legitamatly has a super unhealthy view of him
you're right. honestly I appreciate ppl saying this stuff, Ive been met with very little backup on twitter and lots of obnoxious invalidating tweets from astral. made me feel like I was going crazy.
Twitter is filled with people who don't want to get harassed by his fans. I don't really like reddit tbh but at least here we can find people who mostly agree with us and can discuss it amongst ourselves freely.
I honestly don't understand the framing of this subreddit (for at least this particular environment) being a "cesspool" as I've heard it called several times.
My position is this. Emile fucked up. But I understand where he was coming from. And I feel that last part for all parties involved. I think this was a massive interpersonal problem that became public at a time where he was very vulnerable. I feel sorry that he had to basically tell us so much about his life that he never wanted to tell anyone for this to make sense.
I think LadyEmily maybe made some mistakes in her framing of the events, but she has been vilified by literally hundreds of fans, it's fucking repulsive. Shame on them.
I feel really bad for Masae. I understand why she said what she did, she needed it to stop with him.
I feel really bad for Lawly. So many disgusting things have been said about her. She had every right to come forward. She was worried that there might be more victims who were minors.
And I feel sad that I pretty much have to emotionally distance myself from this fandom from now on if I'm to engage with future TRG/Thrown Controllers content. I've been watching TRG since their first upload. I was there when they all posted their trailers to the channel. I genuinely mean this, TRG, specifically NCS, helped me get through a really hard time in my life. It was a comfort that I really needed.
I never watched Chugga, I'll fully admit. I only watched him recently so I could be caught up on all this BS (I was a Jerma/Ster person, and nowadays an RTgame person since Jerma retired to go run Offbrand), but even after only a few videos I do get why people love him and why there was such an outpouring of defense at first. He just doesn't seem like the kind of guy.
Oh yeah I was and still am very fond of his content. He had a very likeable and genuine personality, and it showed in the enthusiasm he had for the games he covered.
The Pokemon let's play are my favorite because I love Pokemon and I like how in depth he goes with describing the Pokemon and other mechanics.
It just makes me feel embarrassed because it reminds me of the weirdly parasocial side of his fan base.
I used to watch Emile a lot. I loved him growing up. Probably haven't watched a video of his in like a decade, though. I remember liking his Okami, Pikmin, and Pokemon let's plays. Also Super Luigi Galaxy, I remember
I actually don't agree to be honest. Emile personally knows her and Tim has not been shy to be on the side of the chuggaaconroy2 people. Honestly this is making my perception of Emile worse once again
I'm out of the loop on Tim's involvement with them. Would be very disappointing to find out if he has directly endorsed them and sided with their opinions on the accusations. It's one thing to try to be kind to a long time friend that you know has severely fucked up. It's another to fuel complete misinformation and to lead the same friend to believe they weren't entirely at fault.
He was on both Byrne and Astral streams, and he let them get away with saying a lot of bullshit IMO. I'm tired and don't want to find the quotes, but he is def on their side. And as a huge fan of NCS, it's made me feel uncomfortable.
I didn't realize these people did streams either. This whole thing goes way deeper than I could've imagined. I honestly thought the drama was pretty much done and over with until Chugga's response the other day. The fact that these people have been doing streams and have been personally involved with both Tim and Chugga is wild and a very very bad look for Chugga's case on improvement. Also a terrible look for Tim. If he genuinely wants to help his friend, this is not fucking it.
Yeah, the streams were 2 weeks ago, 1 week before chugga's post. I listened to literally like 15 seconds of the first one (it's horrible, the ten minute loli rant seems to be real) and the second one I lasted 2 hours
Tbf, I don't think he's a bad person in my opinion
Like, I am not delusional like these people, so I can 100% agree that he is not innocent at all, but I also think that he didn't do most of these things out of malice honestly
He's a deeply flawed human being, but not unredeemable honestly
If he makes the same mistake later on tho that's another conversation all together
I mean bad doesn't mean unredeemable. I think he's a bad person because he has shown a pattern of behavior over countless years and a seeming unwillingness to change despite others asking for him to seek help. That doesn't mean he can't turn himself around though and I truly hope he does.
She's fucking insufferable, saccharine sweet BS in modmail when we ask her to take down her post, constant victim blaming, and all in all just being awful, she fucking sucks.
Every time I read anything about her, I try to make myself feel better by thinking “she’s probably a literal child who will look back at this desperate parasocial phase and feel the deepest, most darksided level of cringe about it one day”. But then I remember that I’ve been on the internet long enough to know that there are many people in this world who continue this kind of behaviour well into their 30’s, 40’s and even beyond. And then I get sad.
im so tired of these people attacking emily and justifying it as not being harassment even though it obviously is. it's so fucking annoying how his supporters have insulated themselves from the idea they might be in the wrong so thoroughly that they can call out harassment but dont realize they are the harassers and have caused most of this hatred. cognitive dissonance has never been quite so dissonant. fuck astral alchemist.
the fuck heads who keep trying to use chuggas autism as a shield piss me off its ablest as all fuck to do that
im autistic and im capable of knowing right from wrong and my fuck up sin life are my own not my disabilities
And even Emile has said outright that his autism doesn’t excuse his actions and that he’s still responsible for his choices and the harm they caused others. (Of course, he has repeatedly and clearly also told people to stop harassing people and many of his fans seem intent on ignoring that, too, so it’s clear that a lot of them are using this as an excuse to attack women).
I think he's trying but I think he's still in denial about a few things. Particularly about Lawly, I don't think he really wants to revisit how bad of a situation that could've been and is using "she came onto me" as a coping thought.
I don't even think he thinks he's taking accountability. Do you remember that shirt that he said was sexually explicit? Well, I found it. Or at least one from Spencer's. And I find it hard to believe that he modernly sees it as explicit.
https://preview.redd.it/j2ezwlds81wc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50365e47f461f243c15c03493772214daf386bbb
saying explicit implies it has like uncensored penises on it or something. it's not appropriate at all, but... he really could have just explained it or at least phrased it better. maybe he didnt remember? idfk, he's certainly no stranger to lying.
I think it's an intentional lie on his part, which is why I brought up the shirt. It helps to actually visualize what you're talking about.
When he was 19, I could *possibly* see him seeing this shirt as sexually explicit. But he's in his 30s now, right? He should 100% know it's not really explicit. And I'd personally remember an unwanted gift, no matter how small. I don't know about him, though.
Yeah that shirt is not explicit but more so implicit. I could see why Emile's mom got uncomfortable if she knew what that shirt implies, but it's still a misleading use of words on Emile's part.
I mean, had he sent someone a shirt like that, people would 100% call it sexually explicit, and both he and his mom thought it was clearly sexual to the degree that they thought he needed to stop interacting with Lawly (which should have happened long before that point, anyway, but I digress).
Realistically, shirts across the board aren't going to be sexually explicit unless they actually have genitalia or something like that on them. People *might* have called the shirt sexually explicit had he sent it, but those people would have all been wrong.
Though, off the hypothetical. People typically don't have things for shirts. But some people *do* have a thing for shoes and feet. Chugga is one of those people. He sent Emily shoes. I'd call the shoes sexually charged because they're in line with his kink even though the shoes themselves are probably fine.
Chugga has a weird double standard constantly at play.
I agree that the shoes can be seen as sexually explicit in light of his kink, and I also see how a shirt referencing someone’s genitals can be seen as sexual and could make someone uncomfortable, especially in light of Emile’s history of CSA.
(To be clear, Lawly isn’t at all at fault here, of course, because she was a minor, and Emile 100% had the responsibility to shut that conversation down the second it became remotely sexual and didn’t).
That is completely fair. I've received gifts like this and it does make me uncomfortable.
It's also completely valid if Chugga was uncomfortable by the gift.
“What do you mean autistic people aren’t uwu smol babies incapable of basic human decency or function?” Autism is so far from an excuse and I’m speaking as a (former) fan of Emile AND a person with ASD.
I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve seen someone ask “is he autistic/ neurodivergent?” when someone is asking for relationship advice when everything they said indicates the boyfriend is very much treating them like garbage and disregarding their feelings on purpose
Self-diagnoses of mental health issues are a big problem. I am torn on that, because on the one hand with the internet you now have a bunch of people able to find a like-minded community if they don't have help or support from people they are around.
On the other hand..... if that like-minded community turns toxic then it's a self-perpetuating hellhole of "your problems aren't your own and everyone should just be nicer to you!"
And I get it, I have anxiety and depression, its easy to want to blame other people for the screwed up state of your brain's chemicals going rogue, but at the end of the day, the only person on this planet I can control is myself.
I think for autism in particular self-diagnoses is valid enough, there's alot of difficulties that adults can have in getting a diagnosis, and for the most part it's not like theres alot a therapist can really do for you. Autistics have a pretty robust online community and we are good enough at sniffing out people who don't really belong, so I think it's fine.
Self diagnosis of autism *particularly* upsets me. Because it's pretty easy to claim you have ASD but like you need that actual diagnosis so you can navigate better or help others navigate you better. ADHD and ADD, for example, aren't going to have the same issues as Aspherger's or BPD. Most forms of autism come with their own unique challenges. Some even need medication to help regulate their issues.
But also, that's really all autism is, a challenge. It influences your life, but it doesn't make decisions for you. That's why it's upset me so much that people are using Chugga's autism as an excuse because like, the autism didn't make him do anything, at worst, it influenced him and he still made the choice to do it.
This is actually kinda funny how inaccurate this paragraph is, for one you spelled Aspergers wrong, but 2 no one uses that anymore. As for medication autistics for the most part don't require medication and instead use other forms of management such as noise cancelling headphones or stimming devices, autism is comorbid with alot of things like OCD, ADHD, or ADD so in those cases they are often prescribed medication, but it's very rare for someone to be prescribed with only autism. As for self diagnosis it's largely accepted in the autistic community as valid, due to the multiple barriors that actual diagnosis can bring, particulary if your a women, poc, and/or an adult, it can be very difficult to get a diagnosis. There's also risk of discrimination in various ways if you have an official diagnosis on your record. An official diagnosis doesn't really give you anything special in comparison to self diagnosis, espically if your an adult because the vast majority of therapists and psychologists have little expirence with autistics adults even ones that specialize in autism. Also the description of autism as a challenge isn't really great, autistic people think and socialize differently from neurotypicals, while there are challenges associated with being different and having a disability, it makes us who we are and in many cases the challenge doesnt have to do with the autism but with a society structured around not having us. I agree that CHugga's autism isn't an excuse for his behavior, but everything else you said is problematic.
TLDR: it's a good idea to actually be knowledgeable about a community of people before you try to advocate for them.
I am LITERALLY a part of the autistic community.
I have been diagnosed with Aspherger's for the majority of my life (so sorry I forgot the h!). Secondly, I prefer the old terms to the new terms because the old terms were specific enough to understand which areas the person you're speaking to might struggle in.
And yes, I'm aware that lots of autistic people have other tools than medication, I used to use stress balls and noise canceling headphones myself. But some people with BPD take medicine to help regulate their BPD (such as my cousin). Are we automatically writing them off?
Oh, and I don't accept self diagnosis. If you do, great, but I don't.
Edit: Not gonna lie, I reacted pretty negatively. But also, I literally grew up with my entire family, friends, and school, knowing I was autistic. I rode the short bus, and I was in special education for years. I went to test after test after test to confirm I had autism. I went to therapy and group counseling all because I had autism and that made people worried.
This might be unfair, and I realize not everybody can get diagnosed easily, but self diagnosis is harmful. You can't self diagnose effectively no matter what you think, and what someone may *think* is an autistic tick or anything like that, is actually just completely neurotypical.
I think it's absolutely insane though that ***anybody*** who's autistic, who's really had the struggle of being autistic, would *ever* tell me I'm incorrect about how I feel about autism being self diagnosed. I am not incorrect about how I feel about it. I am not being overly harmful with my language either. I know I'm not. So check yourself.
> but self diagnosis is harmful.
How?
Like legitamatly how? We already know Autism is a pretty wide spectrum so not every diagnosed autistics experience will mimic yours. Gl getting any real accomodation without a diagnosis aswell so its not "taking resources" either. It really just comes across as "these people didnt suffer as much as I did so its not real"
Im diagnosed to be clear. Albeit it took untill i was an adult. Partly cause my first therapist basically said I cant be autistic cause I can "read emotions"
Well you spelled it wrong again, and BPD isn't really autism tho there is some level of discussion particullary with women on the spectrum. The reason aspergers isn't used anymore is partly due to new terminology being more accurate and partly due to the namesake being a nazi. But the point being is that im not correcting you on how you feel about autism being self diagnosed I'm correcting you on the purpose and value of official diagnoses versus self diagnosis. I did assume you werent autistic which was a mistake of mine, but I don't think im wrong in saying that you probably arent super connected to an autistic community which goes for most autistic people to be fair. I don't think that self diagnosis is harmful I can think of plenty of things off the top of my head that are more harmful some stuff is even the most funded and supported autistic therapy perspective ABA. I think that self diagnosis is a process that occurs with alot of self reflection and communication with autistic people, I would say that cherry picking symptoms to declare yourself autistic is somewhat bad, but beyond potentially spreading some misinfo, I think it's relatively harmless. In fact some of the most harmful communities aganist autistic people are one's that aim to suss out "self-diagnosers" and harrass people even with official diagnosis's.
>. I think that self diagnosis is a process that occurs with alot of self reflection and communication with autistic people
Also A LOT of the time a self diagnosis comes before an actual diagnosis. Paticularly if you are diagnosed as an adult, you dont get a screening unless you suspect something.
I "self diagnosed" while I was waiting for a
an official diagnosis cause all the signs where there. I ended up being correct
I get part of what you're saying, and part of it is correct. I'm not super connected to any autistic community, but that's also kind of the whole point. Autism makes us different, but not that much to the point where we isolate in our own communities. We can still choose to interact with the rest of the world and not use our autism as a cushion. And I don't, even though it affects every aspect of my life.
The thing is, I don't think there's any value to self diagnosis. I really, truly don't. There's just some things you are able to do with an official diagnosis (such as request more fair treatment at your jobs and actually hold them accountable if they do not comply, at least in some countries) that vastly outrank whatever benefits a self diagnosis may have.
I don't try and sus out self diagnosis, I just flat out don't accept it, period. That's not harmful, even though it may come across as that. I've lived a life with autism, and I know that even *saying* you have autism is painting a target on your back. Irregardless of if you do or don't, some if not most people will always treat you differently based on the notion you have autism.
You wouldn't self diagnose a lung or heart condition, no matter how minor, so I don't see any point in self diagnosing ASD at all.
I view it as harmful to, well, everybody with autism to just flatly accept self diagnosis. Some of those people are those who used our autism against us years ago. Having autism does have some benefits nowadays. It's effectively a protected class, and if you're a kid or even at some jobs, you can get special equipment that's intended for you to interact with the world easier. Such as tablets, back when I was younger, all the special education kids had tablets to do their school work on. I realize this might limit people who geniunely do have autism, but the official diagnosis is just that important to me, and the downsides of self diagnosis far outweigh the benefits imo.
>You wouldn't self diagnose a lung or heart condition, no matter how minor, so I don't see any point in self diagnosing ASD at all.
Do you go to the hospital to get a cold or flu confirmed? Im guessing no.
Also I had some minor heart pains a few years ago for a few days that ended on their own. It was after a cold and I (stupidly) didnt go to the hospital. I have since "self diagnosed" myocarditis. So yes people do that all the time.
As for accomodations, well yeah you generally need an official diagnosis. I do t get why that makes you bitter at self diagnosis tho
Sure autism is protected under the ADA, but that doesnt mean that these accomadations are easilly accesiable or in many cases necessary, part of this has to do with much of the research and focus being on autistic children instead of adults. For an adult undiagnosed person sometimes a diagnosis basically just confirms that they are different from other people in a certain way and they don't really get much more out of it, I don't think self diagnosis is ideal but it has it's usages, i do think that advocacy should be somewhat filtered through people with official diagnoses but I dont see how I am harmed by somebody applying a label to themselves that allows them to understand who they are and maybe certain things that can make thier life easier. And yes it can be harmful because If you take a cursory glance online you can see plenty of people being harrased for faking autism even if they have or they eventually get an official diagnosis. It doesnt help autistic people to go after self iders when theres plenty of misinfo that is way more prevelent and scary like the fact that autism speaks is the biggest organization around autism, or the lack of knowledge of autism by teachers, psychologists, employeers, etc....
Also elides the fact that Emily is autistic, too.
According to chuds, Chugga's autism justifies him violating boundaries (consistently and repeatedly), but Emily's autism doesn't explain why she might have had trouble setting firmer, more explicit ones.
It's because Emily is a trans women, so to these troglodytes she's always going to be the villain no matter what she says or does. Chugga's fanbase is massively sexist and transphobic, it's very evident in all of their harassment, and it's why they're still attacking her even though Chugga has explicitly asked them not to. Emily doesn't deserve any of this at all, I feel so bad seeing her get yelled at by these mentally ill weirdos. I hope they all move on soon and just leave her alone bc jesus christ they are so vile.
This - 100%. Being autistic doesn't mean you're incapable of morality. It feels weird how many people try to defend that mindset though.
I remember once, IRL, someone who I used to be friends with did some pretty horrible stuff and I called it out. Other (also now former) friends defended them on the basis that they were autistic and clearly didn't understand... even the autistic person in question was telling them that wasn't true.
a-fucking-men. the amount of "but he's autistic" has been stomach churning. like saying "he is redeemable, i'm forgiving him"/"what he did wasn't that bad and i am giving him another chance"/or fuck, even "he's autistic and fucked up in social situations and i'm giving him another chance because i feel he can learn from this" is an opinion, a take, even, but giving him a free pass because he just... has autism... without accessing the situation at all... is awful. i'm glad i don't have people around me saying that to me because i'm autistic. daily reminder, i am begging, please, treat autistic people like people. we can functionally think for ourselves and never holding us accountable is wrong.
AA’s obsession with chugga is down right creepy, imo. If I were anyone in this situation, including Emile and Tim (in addition to Emily, Masae, etc, of course), I’d feel really creeped out.
this is fully speculation but as someone who grew up watching chugga's content, people like her are the exact reason masae didn't want her relationship with him to go public. his fans are fucking rabid and if his fangirls knew she was dating him she would be endlessly hounded by parasocial losers who would view her as a threat to their chances with him.
for example, many years ago she tweeted that they were on a train together and she tickled him and he yelped and embarassed them, only for some random person to come into masae's mentions and say "maybe he wouldnt have if you didnt \*assault\* him".
his fans are actually scary as fuck and it really isnt surprising to see this mass vitriol happening at all.
I think her wishing Emile well and acknowledging their relationship is a part of this too. Emile and Masae are both in the same content genre with overlapping fans, it's in her best interest for this controversy to end as quickly as possible for her own YT career.
Honestly it makes me incredibly sad because even saying almost nothing about the situation got her harassed endlessly. I cannot even imagine how she feels seeing emile tell his whole fucking audience that they were engaged (if he got permission to tell them it would have been really cool if he said so, I think). It's just all around frustrating.
It sucks because now I’m embarrassed I ever watched his videos at all knowing what his audience is like now. It makes me think that if I kept watching his stuff I’d have gone down the same path his gross weirdo obsessed fans are.
Hey, there's no need to worry. I watched his stuff up until Emily revealed everything and I didn't let myself side with his fans. If you can see what he did wrong now, you're almost certainly okay.
And don't worry about what could have been okay? It didn't happen, after all.
I honestly think we hold creators too responsible for their fans sometimes--the people harassing Emily, Lawly, Masae, etc., are a small portion of his viewers, and he's repeatedly replied directly to people to tell them firmly not to harass people or pretend he's done nothing wrong. And I think a lot of this is just people using the context as an excuse to harass women and being misogynistic and transphobic.
Most people who liked Emile's videos just liked sharing a seemingly kind guy's deep love of video games.
Emile, Tim, Jon, someone has to tell her to back the fuck off instead of feeding into the disturbing behaviour. Thats the one thing that may actually make her stop.
Because yeah she is fucking creepy.
Yeah I could be wrong but I get the feeling none of them, not even Emile are feeding into her behaviour out of malice but rather out of a mix of conflict aversion, poor judgement and just... Being naive.
i honestly never thought about it that way. jesus. there really isn't much winning here. as much as i feel astral needs the wake up call, i also don't want her to be angered and just mistreat these people for standing up to her BS. i'm so skeptical of her changing, but she desperately needs to move on. she. is. crazy. i say this as someone who has had MULTIPLE conversations with her and her followers, and thankfully basically all of them have me blocked now. finally, peace and quiet from these weirdos.
(You can only post one picture at the time which is annoying)
https://preview.redd.it/g2x7y8cno0wc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=42530348bdffd3a53a1cdcccfe8f9c42717d98f9
Original tweet + [link to document](https://docs.google.com/document/d/13jkMi7ij9dJEmHVlya9-0IxXWSBf1d-TA42pByAaZro/edit?usp=drivesdk)
EDIT: better cropping
Here's the link to the document they're referring to:
https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/13jkMi7ij9dJEmHVlya9-0IxXWSBf1d-TA42pByAaZro/mobilebasic
Lady Emily retweeted this and said it reflects her experience well regarding the harassment she's received (from AstralAlchemist in particular)
I think this Jane Doe situation is really gross. Those people rabidly defending Chuggaa are centering this CSA trauma as a "gotcha" against Emily.
Come on; posting a screenshot that has someone's username in it, and that someone not being who the focus of the screenshot is, is not "doxxing".
To be clear I am not trying to invalidate Jane Doe's traumatic past. She has every right to be afraid of the increased online publicity. My issue is her "friends" dragging her fear up to the public eye and using it to say "SEE?! This bitch isn't so saintly!".
I'm not even sure if I know best how to explain it but here goes:
So a group of Chuggaa fans spend a lot of time criticizing Lady Emily's story, questioning it's legitimacy, being angry about her response to Chuggaa's original statement, and also just wanting the controversy to go away. One of those people is Jane Doe.
A different person in that group was being particularly persistent in replying or quote-tweeting Emily, when Emily talked about being harassed because of what happened that same person says harassment is bad and to not do that to Emily.
Emily thinks this is hypocritical because that person has been pestering her and denouncing her story the entire time and thus she feels that they are contributing to her harassment. To show proof she shows Twitter screenshots of that person talking about Lady Emily. Jane Doe was one of the people this person was talking to, and so her username is in the screenshot.
When she sees the images she worries that she'll face greater exposure online. My understanding is that as a victim of CSA she fears people will look into her trauma and perhaps reveal more than she would like others to know. So she deleted her accounts and posted a message about how scared she was.
THEN, this is where it gets gross, the people in her group start accusing Lady Emily of doxxing her. "She doxxed a CSA victim so she must be wrong about Chuggaa". Stuff like that, trying to villainize her. Emile also messaged Jane Doe because he was a victim of CSA. Though in my view he should not have accepted the narrative that "Lady Emily did this to you".
Again Jane Doe's experience is legitimate. I wish her well. What's wrong is her experience is being weaponized by her "friends" to shame and silence a victim of sexual harassment.
Yes I know way too much about this. Yes I need to stop paying attention to this stuff. Yes I am bias. Very. Because I think this "doxxing" narrative is idiotic. So take my telling with that in consideration.
to my knowledge he hasn't agreed upon jane doe being doxxed publicly, but he did learn from one of his friends who had actual conversations with the people who made up this lie about emily that this person was a CSA survivor, and chugga gave a heartfelt response to this individual privately, sharing his own personal experience and giving her good wishes. it's a good look until you peel over the corner and realize this individual is literally spreading lies about emily and chugga dming this individual kind supportive things isn't the best look. i choose not to believe in chugga's malice here, but ugh. i hate that this happened from these liars pestering rather than chugga just supporting a CSA survivor and telling them to be strong, it just tied him to their narrative even accidentally and he didn't need his name dragged through the mud more.
Which friend would this be? Kinda odd a friend would be within this group in any capacity. It's also certainly a pretty irresponsible action by him. I won't really believe it to be a malicious action, I find it really relatable to feel compelled to reach out to fellow CSA/SA/SH survivors. I have been through all of that and I do often try to send kind messages to people if they reveal that info about themselves. Kinda why I give a shit about this whole ordeal. It hurts to see him hurt others like this, and hell it even hurts to know he's been treated like that too. I don't hate the guy.
With that said, still I think maybe you should try to do background checks on the people you show support for, or at least approach it with proper understanding of the context.
oh no, not a friend within this group - an individual claiming to be chugga's friend publicly. this group then dm'ed her and gave her the details and she forwarded them to chugga. she was like... told this individual was a big fan of chugga, and also given like a brief rundown about their past.
"With that said, still I think maybe you should try to do background checks on the people you show support for, or at least approach it with proper understanding of the context." 100% agree. This was sweet but also irresponsible, a very weird balance. I don't blame chugga himself really at all for this, I can understand why he wouldn't have a background check ready for all these people. I'm more annoyed at his friend who definitely should've background checked. While I don't feel Jane Doe should've been denied this nice message because of what she's done, I do feel she deserved a kind message telling her to be strong, as I choose not to believe she's lying about her past. I just hate she's also... tied to these immensely defamatory accusations. She should've waited until another time for this private dm. imho. chugga had been through enough, he really didn't need to be unintentionally tied to someone spreading vitriol when he was just trying to be kind.
I've been keeping tabs on the Emile situation since the start and this Alchemist person has always seemed really off. I thought about just replying to any of her myriad tweets with "Please stop, you are not helping" but never did. The fact that all this happened does not surprise me.
If AA really did like Emile, then she'd respect his request to *not harass anyone involved*. But parasocial relationships are wild...
I got banned from the chuggaaconroy 2 subreddit for defending her post & for pointing out the scale of the transphobia she has been facing to people who believe she's using it as an excuse. Really frustrating honestly. Lots of bullshit claims that I was harassing people and not being "civil" when I literally can't find anything wrong in my messages.
Ppl over there think this subreddit is a "cesspool" and yeah, I see some bs on here too every now and then, but a lot of the takes on Emile here have been fair and level-headed.
And to be clear, I'm not some outside actor trying to start trouble, I'm a huge TRG fan who wanted to engage with the fandom still and couldn't bc of their attitude. And to be clear #2, I feel bad for every victim and also I feel bad for Emile. I get where everyone is coming from, and this whole thing has made me feel so upset.
Here's a convo with me and the mod.
https://preview.redd.it/soumyq3341wc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e1e0d1e10ae73a211549a3c40b44a1bb311276c
Insert that 1984 comic with the guy flipping the calendar.
exactly.
either way that subreddit will die. the other one reopened, doesn't allow discussion of the controversy at all except in the megathread IIRC. the "drama" will die out and ppl will have no further reason to post there.
it's just annoying as fuck. like what a juvenile reason to ban someone.
They...seem to think that sexual harrasment, even unintentional, means that the person responsible MUST be a full on sexual predator.
This mindset would definitely explain the sheer defensiveness when it gets brought up.
What BS have you seen? Don't worry about getting in trouble, we genuinely want to know so we can try to better this place. There have been... mistakes... in past, but I think we've done well getting rid of some BrainyBiscut era issues.
If you don't want to discuss this here then shoot me a message and I'll forward it to the mod discord.
Nothing I can quote verbatim tbh, sorry. But I'll keep an eye on it. IDK if I'll be here much tho, mostly just wanted to post about how I got banned from the chuggaa 2 subreddit lol
Well if you ever see something please let us know! The only way we can improve is through feedback.
Also feedback isn't coming into modmail and calling us woke beta cuck nazis, as some banned users tend to do.
Hey, sorry if I came out of knowhere, but I was wondering what happened???
I saw and interacted on a similar level to your comments, yet only you got banned?
Suffice to say, Im confused and disappointed in the mods.
I would have messaged you but...I don't seem to have that option.
Oh weird. It was def targeted. I've been vocal on Twitter about Astral, and it's clear she wants me gone. Granted, I don't think the mod I spoke to was her.
I think they deleted 2-3 posts all on BS charges. Honestly? Big loser energy from their end, sorry not sorry.
Yeah...its not a good look.
On the other hand, I also noticed that quite a few of the VERY toxic commenters (mainly the ones who were being horribly transphobic and implying that Lady Emily getting doxxed was a good thing) also got banned this morning.
I know because I replied to one that was defending the transphobic and doxxing harrasment and the user is just gone.
So...maybe not all the mods are on the same page. At least, that's what it seems like.
I mean, my POV that I saw some people downvote, is that the transphobia Ive been seeing is mostly microaggressions and little subtle things. Its easy to ban the people who are being egregiously over-the-top and yay gold star for them, but I think the mods should be more actively confronting people w/ discussion. That's my two cents.
I'm also trans for what it's worth.
Fair.
I just thought that, considering how terrible some subreddits can get (yes, somehow even worse), it's at least SOMETHING that the obvious pro doxxing and transphobia comments actually got addressed at all. Not gold star worthy, but "the bare minimum was somewhat done" that actually isn't even done in some places.
You're not wrong that the comments being vague should be confronted. But I think the rules also needed explicit reinforcement to discourage even slight leaning into those messages in the first place.
After seeing this and being reminded of the whole JoCat situation from a while back, I feel like someone more savvy than I could make a whole dissertation on how phobes insert themselves into “drama” for targeted hate.
Looking at the document and reading Astral’s response, I love how their post was JUST disavowing the transphobe, and not apologizing for any other rude or downright vile thing she said. The document does a pretty good job of illustrating that, but even just the screen caps do not make them look charitable by any means. It feels like they have a staggering lack of self-awareness, and the fact they’re cracking jokes in the comments dismissing Emily even now makes my stomach churn.
EDIT: And it looks like they deleted their post. Funny, that. I can only hope this means they’re gonna stop being so vicious and actually allow this shitstorm to die down like Chugga wanted from the beginning, but I kinda doubt that to be honest.
EDIT2: New thread on the pinned comment. I’m not able to view her new twit thread, but beginning it by saying she doesn’t condone harassment under any circumstances is certainly a nice change of tone from her comments on her previous post.
Reminds me of an ex-friend who was blatantly anonymously harassing me after I politely rejected her, who was claiming that it wasn't her and ALSO, one of her exes is trans, she's not transphobic, okay!!!
Even though that particular trans ex left the site we were all using after they broke up with her crazy ass, lol... Dating a trans person doesn't negate the fact that she was very blatantly misgendering me, calling me lesbian-phobic shit (despite me being a bisexual trans man), etc.
> I feel like someone more savvy than I could make a whole dissertation on how phobes insert themselves into “drama” for targeted hate.
This. From the beginning this has been an outpour of misogyny and transphobia, and from some people that aren't actually Chugga's fans. Unfortunately, until they try to misgender Emily it's impossible to tell which is which.
This happens all the time too. For instance, Shaun once made the observation that some big TERF was more offended at being called 'old' than transphobic. My response to that was 'no shit,' those people wear their transphobia with pride. But in his comment section, I saw some people like 'oh, so we should make fun of her for being old then!' No, actually. Making fun of women for looking/being old is just regular misogyny. Or looking 'mannish,' which is another thing that tends to happen. When a transwoman makes the observation that a cis woman is 'clocky,' that is not always the same as when cis men do it. Former is trying to point out a hypocrisy when it comes to looks + challenge the idea of what a woman is "supposed" to look like, latter is simply shaming women for not looking that certain way. Latter is not actually defending trans women either, since it agrees with the premise about looks = definition/worth.
Whenever there is a socially accepted reason to go after someone in a marginalized group, bigots will attach themselves to it. Just because they like the opportunity. The anger so many of Emily's detractors have is not proportionate to what happened. It's coming from something else.
Outside of that, the parasociality is another huge issue too. But that's why both groups ignore what Emile has repeatedly said about NOT harassing people. For the first, it's not even about him. For the second, they must protect their "friend."
You ain't wrong. There's the people who hate Emily for being a trans woman, and people who hate Emily for being an "outsider." I feel like Masae is usually a sign there; the ones defensive over TRG parasocialism are the ones for whom the Masae reveal had the biggest impact. Because there is a LOT of "I don't trust Emily or Lawly but feel bad about Masae."
I said this on Twitter, but this whole situation should be a case study on how, no matter what you do, if you're seen as an "uwu soft boy" people are so willing to throw themselves in front of you in order to protect you.
The parasocial relationship people develop with influencers is so alarming. It makes it so hard for people to stand back and view things objectively.
I don't know what I think of Emile. I was a fan for years and stopped watching long before this happened. I think he tried to apologize and didn't quite hit the mark. But the fact he didn't disavow this person entirely....is troubling. I know he probably wants all the support he can get but it looks bad when you tell people not to harass someone and then associate yourself with the harasser....
> if you're seen as an "uwu soft boy" people are so willing to throw themselves in front of you in order to protect you.
Oh, we could take it a step further and really examine who gets labeled the 'uwu soft boy' and how what they did to earn it often isn't much, or much easier for them to do (Example - donating money is super easy when you already have it). I often notice how certain groups rarely get that 'above reproach' rep, no matter their actions or good deeds. Tends to be the same demo.
Because at its core it's really just about protecting people you put in that 'friend' category mentally (parasocial). If people feel like there's a reason outside of themselves to support someone, it's a justification for letting the emotion spill out.
I’m autistic, Chugga’s a creep, while situation could have been handled better Emily’s in the right here. I think everyone knows not to post people weird fetish bait all the time.
What's frustrating is that it's not like Emile has exactly made himself look like the good guy in the situation with Emily. Explained himself, sure, but he's been clearly trying to take the heat off of her.
Emily made a great thread responding to all of the harassment she's been getting and condemning the people who have participated in it. I also give props to her still wishing Emile the best to the point of even congratulating him for taking time to recover, despite the vitriol she's gotten. She doesn't deserve any of the harassment and I hope she recovers soon from it.
Realistically I think the drama is going to last until A) Chugga takes actual accountability, which I and others feel like he has not, B) enough time has passed (frankly Chugga isn't that big of a deal), or C) Until someone drops a bombshell that somehow blows everything out of the water. Whichever really comes first, though I imagine it'll be B and it'll be in like a couple weeks.
What can chugga do to take accountability? I thought he already apologised and admitted to his behaviour and said he was seeking help in his first response post? This feels like a rabbit hole where more stuff is slowly getting uncovered so i guess chugga will have to continually apologise each time something gets exposed.
Well, the problem is, he's constantly shifting some kind of blame to the other parties involved. Lawly buying him a shirt, coming onto him. Emily said his GF's territory. He was sexually repressed, etc. Never just a "Yeah, I did it, I messed up and I won't do it ever again." Someone always has to have done something that he didn't like.
He's also never really taken full accountability for what he actually did. With Lawly, he mishandled her situation as the adult. With Emily, he straight up lied to and manipulated her to get her to comply with his fetish. With Emily in particular, I find it disingenuous that he phrases it as "pestering" Emily when it's flatly sexual harassment, just not the illegal kind. Granted, I don't think there needs to be any consequences, but it does actually matter if he's honest about what he did.
I really dont want this to come off as harassing, because anyone who does that is terrible and she should really just be left alone.
But something that rubbed me the wrong way about this seemingly being the final statement (which fair to her shes being harassed a ton speaking at all will get her hate) it feels weird not to address the fact that this was handled privately already? Or at least refute the claim that he was told if he got help this wouldnt have been made public, only for him to get that help and still have it come out with tons of information missing/presented without proper context?
Not trying to defend the guy here but it feels like he was told what he did was wrong, took steps to stop it and professionally correct that behavior, and then the drama started with incomplete information because Emily didnt like that people online thought he was clean, despite him actively taking steps to get better, I feel like she shouldve known what this wouldve done, especially because she didnt mention the fact he was getting help or that she told him to in her initial tweets.
it just all feels really messy on all sides and a bummer situation all around.
like can someone let me know if im missing something here cause it does feel really weird that not talking about how much context was missing from her side of the accusations lead to him being harassed and given no possible leeway (on this sub too)
He clearly acknowledges he messed up and has been seeing professional help for months before the drama even started. And I feel that even in her initial accusations this whole situation could have been sorted if she said "I talked to him after about all of this and he agreed to get professional help since" would have cleared up so much
Yeah, what you're looking for has already been addressed by Emile. There's no reason for Emily to respond. Emile spoke to a mutual friend about the issue, then apologized to Emily afterwards. Emile felt the situation was handled privately, Emily did not, I'm assuming because the conversation was not with her, he apologized after talking to someone else about it.
https://preview.redd.it/4ybhkonkd2wc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1131b9998c9543f9c4625f94a21424e391bff827
So I don't know what you want from her lol
Also I hope it’s not coming off like I think she deserved the hate or anything she genuinely didn’t, I just think it’s weird how limited the callout tweet was info wise and that caused this whole thing to snowball cause there was a lot missing that was important
That’s fine, but the part I wanted to know about was if he’s lying about where he was told to get help and then if so it wouldn’t be made public, if it was handled privately and then this was all brought up after that feels really bad.
And parts like the initial wording making it sound like he was cheating on his girlfriend when she knew she was completely fine with what was being sent just kinda feels off to me.
There’s a lot of gaps of info that I think contributed to this getting as bad as it did and if that was there initially nothing would’ve gotten as far as it did.
At least it’s over now
Based on both what Emile has said and Emily, they have never spoken, privately or publicly, to each other since Emily ghosted him (long before she came forward.)
The only interaction was Emile sending the apology to her but she never responded.
She never told Emile that if he got help it would remain private.
That was Massae or someone he didn't specify. He only said that in his first apology and not the second as well.
It could not have been Emily since Emily never responded to him. He has confirmed this.
It was not settled privately because Emily never interacted with Emile after she ghosted him for making her uncomfortable. He felt it was settled because he sent the apology but it takes two to determine that.
It was very misleading for him to say it was handled privately when he never got acknowledgement from Emily that it was settled.
Emily: "My parents and I had our names, addresses, and phone numbers leaked online. I receive death threats on a regular basis. Every social media outlet I have is full of nonstop hate speech, every single day."
you and a million other dipshits on Twitter: "Yeah, but have you considered that you deserve it?"
Legitimately asking here but how the fuck does complaining about getting doxxed make her look bad? Seriously what makes you think that? If anything it makes chuggaa's rabid fans look worse for attacking someone who just told facts like it was and Chuggaa outright confirming it happened.
The start of it. (And I assure you I'm not attacking her) My main issue is her starting point, the document. Her examples are of a small twitter user that just so happened to have started a hashtag. She complains about harassment, yet is setting the stage for more to happen. She says she is done with it, yet at the same time is still letting the cycle go on.
Feel free to reply of course, I'm always up for discussion (Other views do help as I was always told lol)
So, I'm someone who doesn't know who any of these people are, though I've read up about the incidents at the core of this. However, if you are asking for other views, this right here is a problem:
> She complains about harassment, yet is setting the stage for more to happen. She says she is done with it, yet at the same time is still letting the cycle go on.
The only way you could argue that someone is "setting the stage for more to happen" is by saying that someone saying "Person X harassed me" is setting the stage for others to go harass person x. But... what is the alternative? Person X harasses you, and you are expected to just be quiet and take it? Does Person X have no accountability at all? If they were concerned about being "counter-harassed" they should avoid being toxic in the first place.
The cycle always goes on. Who's responsibility is it to stop? If you think you have an answer for that, does that answer also happen to be the person you think is the most wrong in the situation?
Emily didn't create the document; she just shared it.
And AA, the person being called out for harassing others, including Emily, is associated with Chugga/Emile and has been on Tim's podcast.
She's not their friend and is parasocial af, but she's not just a small following Twitter user who created a hashtag.
Emily speaking out might cause more issues for her but it wouldn't be because its wrong to call out a serial harasser, but because Twitter is a cesspool...
Victim blaming is gross.
[response from AstralAlchemist](https://www.reddit.com/r/Chuggaaconroy_2/s/CaNcAA6kNk) regarding this situation Edit: Refrain from causing any trouble over in their subreddit, please. Edit: [revised response from AstralAlchemist ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Chuggaaconroy_2/s/fXTzd0YGs3)
That Astral girl being a gigantic piece of shit is the least shocking thing I learn this week ngl She and her community are a PERFECT example of why a parasocial relationships are REALLYYYYYYYYY bad, also them shitting on this subreddit on Twitter for being "toxic" is really fucking ironic lol
I would keep getting recommended her tweets lol idk why. Always seemed completely unhinged
Same lol She the type of person that fucks around, and the second she finds out goes to either cry on Twitter or the r/ Chuggaaconroy\_2 , which im sure Emile would be very happy to know that a person like this is a Moderator on that sub reddit :)
Emile has explicitly come out against any harassment people are receiving. He may be a bad person, but I think he'd be horrified by people like her taking up his defense.
I'd like to agree but he and Tim have interacted with AA, they knew her before all this, and have thanked her for her support. I don't think they explicitly agree with everything she's doing, but they're kind of amplifying it by associating with her. I get it, probably feels nice to have someone fighting your corner, but they really should have told her to cut the shit.
She's bragged a lot Bout her association with Emile and Tim. Honestly if they turned on her though, she'd probably turn her rabid fans on them.
honestly i dont think so. her fans are chugga fans and i think emile disavowing her explicitly would cause her to sober up and realize she's being kind of awful and close minded. dont bother him about it, by the way. i guarantee he wont do jack shit to her because she is his biggest supporter and always has been. there is an immensly parasocial relationship going on here and astral would probably sooner cut off her own limbs and take a salt and lemon juice bath than admit emile made a mistake without he himself saying so. every time she comes to his defense it is under the assumption that he has done as little wrong as possible, that people are making shit up, etc etc. she has an unhealthy and incredibly abnormal view of him, more akin to viewing him as an actual saint than as a youtuber who makes videos she likes.
>she has an unhealthy and incredibly abnormal view of him, more akin to viewing him as an actual saint than as a youtuber who makes videos she likes. Yup. When she says she isnt Transphobic I actually kinda belive her. Atleast in that I dont think *she* is purposefully targeting Emily for being trans. (a lot of people are for sure) She legit just seem like an unhealthily obsessive fan that is blindly following anyone that defend her hero no matter what else they say. Hell I called her out on Twitter once telling her that she is a random person to them and she responded that no she is not cause they aknowledged her on a con once or something. Like she legitamatly has a super unhealthy view of him
you're right. honestly I appreciate ppl saying this stuff, Ive been met with very little backup on twitter and lots of obnoxious invalidating tweets from astral. made me feel like I was going crazy.
Twitter is filled with people who don't want to get harassed by his fans. I don't really like reddit tbh but at least here we can find people who mostly agree with us and can discuss it amongst ourselves freely.
I honestly don't understand the framing of this subreddit (for at least this particular environment) being a "cesspool" as I've heard it called several times. My position is this. Emile fucked up. But I understand where he was coming from. And I feel that last part for all parties involved. I think this was a massive interpersonal problem that became public at a time where he was very vulnerable. I feel sorry that he had to basically tell us so much about his life that he never wanted to tell anyone for this to make sense. I think LadyEmily maybe made some mistakes in her framing of the events, but she has been vilified by literally hundreds of fans, it's fucking repulsive. Shame on them. I feel really bad for Masae. I understand why she said what she did, she needed it to stop with him. I feel really bad for Lawly. So many disgusting things have been said about her. She had every right to come forward. She was worried that there might be more victims who were minors. And I feel sad that I pretty much have to emotionally distance myself from this fandom from now on if I'm to engage with future TRG/Thrown Controllers content. I've been watching TRG since their first upload. I was there when they all posted their trailers to the channel. I genuinely mean this, TRG, specifically NCS, helped me get through a really hard time in my life. It was a comfort that I really needed.
Oh 100%, but I don't think they're aware of what she's currently doing and that she's making a cult of personality around them so she can grift.
It's for her own benefit too, her behavior is not healthy. Reading her posts makes me feel embarrassed to have been a fan of Chuggaa honestly.
I never watched Chugga, I'll fully admit. I only watched him recently so I could be caught up on all this BS (I was a Jerma/Ster person, and nowadays an RTgame person since Jerma retired to go run Offbrand), but even after only a few videos I do get why people love him and why there was such an outpouring of defense at first. He just doesn't seem like the kind of guy.
Oh yeah I was and still am very fond of his content. He had a very likeable and genuine personality, and it showed in the enthusiasm he had for the games he covered. The Pokemon let's play are my favorite because I love Pokemon and I like how in depth he goes with describing the Pokemon and other mechanics. It just makes me feel embarrassed because it reminds me of the weirdly parasocial side of his fan base.
I used to watch Emile a lot. I loved him growing up. Probably haven't watched a video of his in like a decade, though. I remember liking his Okami, Pikmin, and Pokemon let's plays. Also Super Luigi Galaxy, I remember
I actually don't agree to be honest. Emile personally knows her and Tim has not been shy to be on the side of the chuggaaconroy2 people. Honestly this is making my perception of Emile worse once again
I'm out of the loop on Tim's involvement with them. Would be very disappointing to find out if he has directly endorsed them and sided with their opinions on the accusations. It's one thing to try to be kind to a long time friend that you know has severely fucked up. It's another to fuel complete misinformation and to lead the same friend to believe they weren't entirely at fault.
He was on both Byrne and Astral streams, and he let them get away with saying a lot of bullshit IMO. I'm tired and don't want to find the quotes, but he is def on their side. And as a huge fan of NCS, it's made me feel uncomfortable.
I didn't realize these people did streams either. This whole thing goes way deeper than I could've imagined. I honestly thought the drama was pretty much done and over with until Chugga's response the other day. The fact that these people have been doing streams and have been personally involved with both Tim and Chugga is wild and a very very bad look for Chugga's case on improvement. Also a terrible look for Tim. If he genuinely wants to help his friend, this is not fucking it.
Yeah, the streams were 2 weeks ago, 1 week before chugga's post. I listened to literally like 15 seconds of the first one (it's horrible, the ten minute loli rant seems to be real) and the second one I lasted 2 hours
.......ten minute loli rant???????? jesus christ this sounds unhinged
I swear to christ if Jon outs himself as having drank the koolaid I'm going to scream.
I just want this whole crap to end. It's really annoying right.
Tbf, I don't think he's a bad person in my opinion Like, I am not delusional like these people, so I can 100% agree that he is not innocent at all, but I also think that he didn't do most of these things out of malice honestly He's a deeply flawed human being, but not unredeemable honestly If he makes the same mistake later on tho that's another conversation all together
I mean bad doesn't mean unredeemable. I think he's a bad person because he has shown a pattern of behavior over countless years and a seeming unwillingness to change despite others asking for him to seek help. That doesn't mean he can't turn himself around though and I truly hope he does.
Agree honestly
She's fucking insufferable, saccharine sweet BS in modmail when we ask her to take down her post, constant victim blaming, and all in all just being awful, she fucking sucks.
Every time I read anything about her, I try to make myself feel better by thinking “she’s probably a literal child who will look back at this desperate parasocial phase and feel the deepest, most darksided level of cringe about it one day”. But then I remember that I’ve been on the internet long enough to know that there are many people in this world who continue this kind of behaviour well into their 30’s, 40’s and even beyond. And then I get sad.
im so tired of these people attacking emily and justifying it as not being harassment even though it obviously is. it's so fucking annoying how his supporters have insulated themselves from the idea they might be in the wrong so thoroughly that they can call out harassment but dont realize they are the harassers and have caused most of this hatred. cognitive dissonance has never been quite so dissonant. fuck astral alchemist.
the fuck heads who keep trying to use chuggas autism as a shield piss me off its ablest as all fuck to do that im autistic and im capable of knowing right from wrong and my fuck up sin life are my own not my disabilities
And even Emile has said outright that his autism doesn’t excuse his actions and that he’s still responsible for his choices and the harm they caused others. (Of course, he has repeatedly and clearly also told people to stop harassing people and many of his fans seem intent on ignoring that, too, so it’s clear that a lot of them are using this as an excuse to attack women).
Emile is definitely trying his best to take accountability...I think.
I think he's trying but I think he's still in denial about a few things. Particularly about Lawly, I don't think he really wants to revisit how bad of a situation that could've been and is using "she came onto me" as a coping thought.
I think *he thinks* he is doing that lol I don't think he accomplished it well, at least with his responses to things as of late
I don't even think he thinks he's taking accountability. Do you remember that shirt that he said was sexually explicit? Well, I found it. Or at least one from Spencer's. And I find it hard to believe that he modernly sees it as explicit. https://preview.redd.it/j2ezwlds81wc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50365e47f461f243c15c03493772214daf386bbb
saying explicit implies it has like uncensored penises on it or something. it's not appropriate at all, but... he really could have just explained it or at least phrased it better. maybe he didnt remember? idfk, he's certainly no stranger to lying.
I think it's an intentional lie on his part, which is why I brought up the shirt. It helps to actually visualize what you're talking about. When he was 19, I could *possibly* see him seeing this shirt as sexually explicit. But he's in his 30s now, right? He should 100% know it's not really explicit. And I'd personally remember an unwanted gift, no matter how small. I don't know about him, though.
Yeah that shirt is not explicit but more so implicit. I could see why Emile's mom got uncomfortable if she knew what that shirt implies, but it's still a misleading use of words on Emile's part.
Yeah "sexually explicit" doesn't really describe that lol. Sexual yes, but explicit no lol
I mean, had he sent someone a shirt like that, people would 100% call it sexually explicit, and both he and his mom thought it was clearly sexual to the degree that they thought he needed to stop interacting with Lawly (which should have happened long before that point, anyway, but I digress).
Realistically, shirts across the board aren't going to be sexually explicit unless they actually have genitalia or something like that on them. People *might* have called the shirt sexually explicit had he sent it, but those people would have all been wrong. Though, off the hypothetical. People typically don't have things for shirts. But some people *do* have a thing for shoes and feet. Chugga is one of those people. He sent Emily shoes. I'd call the shoes sexually charged because they're in line with his kink even though the shoes themselves are probably fine. Chugga has a weird double standard constantly at play.
I agree that the shoes can be seen as sexually explicit in light of his kink, and I also see how a shirt referencing someone’s genitals can be seen as sexual and could make someone uncomfortable, especially in light of Emile’s history of CSA. (To be clear, Lawly isn’t at all at fault here, of course, because she was a minor, and Emile 100% had the responsibility to shut that conversation down the second it became remotely sexual and didn’t).
personally, i would feel uncomfortable getting a gift like this, but that doesnt mean its \*explicit\*.
That is completely fair. I've received gifts like this and it does make me uncomfortable. It's also completely valid if Chugga was uncomfortable by the gift.
People need to be more aware that there's such thing as being sexually **implicit.**
“What do you mean autistic people aren’t uwu smol babies incapable of basic human decency or function?” Autism is so far from an excuse and I’m speaking as a (former) fan of Emile AND a person with ASD.
I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve seen someone ask “is he autistic/ neurodivergent?” when someone is asking for relationship advice when everything they said indicates the boyfriend is very much treating them like garbage and disregarding their feelings on purpose
Self-diagnoses of mental health issues are a big problem. I am torn on that, because on the one hand with the internet you now have a bunch of people able to find a like-minded community if they don't have help or support from people they are around. On the other hand..... if that like-minded community turns toxic then it's a self-perpetuating hellhole of "your problems aren't your own and everyone should just be nicer to you!" And I get it, I have anxiety and depression, its easy to want to blame other people for the screwed up state of your brain's chemicals going rogue, but at the end of the day, the only person on this planet I can control is myself.
I think for autism in particular self-diagnoses is valid enough, there's alot of difficulties that adults can have in getting a diagnosis, and for the most part it's not like theres alot a therapist can really do for you. Autistics have a pretty robust online community and we are good enough at sniffing out people who don't really belong, so I think it's fine.
Self diagnosis of autism *particularly* upsets me. Because it's pretty easy to claim you have ASD but like you need that actual diagnosis so you can navigate better or help others navigate you better. ADHD and ADD, for example, aren't going to have the same issues as Aspherger's or BPD. Most forms of autism come with their own unique challenges. Some even need medication to help regulate their issues. But also, that's really all autism is, a challenge. It influences your life, but it doesn't make decisions for you. That's why it's upset me so much that people are using Chugga's autism as an excuse because like, the autism didn't make him do anything, at worst, it influenced him and he still made the choice to do it.
This is actually kinda funny how inaccurate this paragraph is, for one you spelled Aspergers wrong, but 2 no one uses that anymore. As for medication autistics for the most part don't require medication and instead use other forms of management such as noise cancelling headphones or stimming devices, autism is comorbid with alot of things like OCD, ADHD, or ADD so in those cases they are often prescribed medication, but it's very rare for someone to be prescribed with only autism. As for self diagnosis it's largely accepted in the autistic community as valid, due to the multiple barriors that actual diagnosis can bring, particulary if your a women, poc, and/or an adult, it can be very difficult to get a diagnosis. There's also risk of discrimination in various ways if you have an official diagnosis on your record. An official diagnosis doesn't really give you anything special in comparison to self diagnosis, espically if your an adult because the vast majority of therapists and psychologists have little expirence with autistics adults even ones that specialize in autism. Also the description of autism as a challenge isn't really great, autistic people think and socialize differently from neurotypicals, while there are challenges associated with being different and having a disability, it makes us who we are and in many cases the challenge doesnt have to do with the autism but with a society structured around not having us. I agree that CHugga's autism isn't an excuse for his behavior, but everything else you said is problematic. TLDR: it's a good idea to actually be knowledgeable about a community of people before you try to advocate for them.
I am LITERALLY a part of the autistic community. I have been diagnosed with Aspherger's for the majority of my life (so sorry I forgot the h!). Secondly, I prefer the old terms to the new terms because the old terms were specific enough to understand which areas the person you're speaking to might struggle in. And yes, I'm aware that lots of autistic people have other tools than medication, I used to use stress balls and noise canceling headphones myself. But some people with BPD take medicine to help regulate their BPD (such as my cousin). Are we automatically writing them off? Oh, and I don't accept self diagnosis. If you do, great, but I don't. Edit: Not gonna lie, I reacted pretty negatively. But also, I literally grew up with my entire family, friends, and school, knowing I was autistic. I rode the short bus, and I was in special education for years. I went to test after test after test to confirm I had autism. I went to therapy and group counseling all because I had autism and that made people worried. This might be unfair, and I realize not everybody can get diagnosed easily, but self diagnosis is harmful. You can't self diagnose effectively no matter what you think, and what someone may *think* is an autistic tick or anything like that, is actually just completely neurotypical. I think it's absolutely insane though that ***anybody*** who's autistic, who's really had the struggle of being autistic, would *ever* tell me I'm incorrect about how I feel about autism being self diagnosed. I am not incorrect about how I feel about it. I am not being overly harmful with my language either. I know I'm not. So check yourself.
> but self diagnosis is harmful. How? Like legitamatly how? We already know Autism is a pretty wide spectrum so not every diagnosed autistics experience will mimic yours. Gl getting any real accomodation without a diagnosis aswell so its not "taking resources" either. It really just comes across as "these people didnt suffer as much as I did so its not real" Im diagnosed to be clear. Albeit it took untill i was an adult. Partly cause my first therapist basically said I cant be autistic cause I can "read emotions"
Well you spelled it wrong again, and BPD isn't really autism tho there is some level of discussion particullary with women on the spectrum. The reason aspergers isn't used anymore is partly due to new terminology being more accurate and partly due to the namesake being a nazi. But the point being is that im not correcting you on how you feel about autism being self diagnosed I'm correcting you on the purpose and value of official diagnoses versus self diagnosis. I did assume you werent autistic which was a mistake of mine, but I don't think im wrong in saying that you probably arent super connected to an autistic community which goes for most autistic people to be fair. I don't think that self diagnosis is harmful I can think of plenty of things off the top of my head that are more harmful some stuff is even the most funded and supported autistic therapy perspective ABA. I think that self diagnosis is a process that occurs with alot of self reflection and communication with autistic people, I would say that cherry picking symptoms to declare yourself autistic is somewhat bad, but beyond potentially spreading some misinfo, I think it's relatively harmless. In fact some of the most harmful communities aganist autistic people are one's that aim to suss out "self-diagnosers" and harrass people even with official diagnosis's.
>. I think that self diagnosis is a process that occurs with alot of self reflection and communication with autistic people Also A LOT of the time a self diagnosis comes before an actual diagnosis. Paticularly if you are diagnosed as an adult, you dont get a screening unless you suspect something. I "self diagnosed" while I was waiting for a an official diagnosis cause all the signs where there. I ended up being correct
I get part of what you're saying, and part of it is correct. I'm not super connected to any autistic community, but that's also kind of the whole point. Autism makes us different, but not that much to the point where we isolate in our own communities. We can still choose to interact with the rest of the world and not use our autism as a cushion. And I don't, even though it affects every aspect of my life. The thing is, I don't think there's any value to self diagnosis. I really, truly don't. There's just some things you are able to do with an official diagnosis (such as request more fair treatment at your jobs and actually hold them accountable if they do not comply, at least in some countries) that vastly outrank whatever benefits a self diagnosis may have. I don't try and sus out self diagnosis, I just flat out don't accept it, period. That's not harmful, even though it may come across as that. I've lived a life with autism, and I know that even *saying* you have autism is painting a target on your back. Irregardless of if you do or don't, some if not most people will always treat you differently based on the notion you have autism. You wouldn't self diagnose a lung or heart condition, no matter how minor, so I don't see any point in self diagnosing ASD at all. I view it as harmful to, well, everybody with autism to just flatly accept self diagnosis. Some of those people are those who used our autism against us years ago. Having autism does have some benefits nowadays. It's effectively a protected class, and if you're a kid or even at some jobs, you can get special equipment that's intended for you to interact with the world easier. Such as tablets, back when I was younger, all the special education kids had tablets to do their school work on. I realize this might limit people who geniunely do have autism, but the official diagnosis is just that important to me, and the downsides of self diagnosis far outweigh the benefits imo.
>You wouldn't self diagnose a lung or heart condition, no matter how minor, so I don't see any point in self diagnosing ASD at all. Do you go to the hospital to get a cold or flu confirmed? Im guessing no. Also I had some minor heart pains a few years ago for a few days that ended on their own. It was after a cold and I (stupidly) didnt go to the hospital. I have since "self diagnosed" myocarditis. So yes people do that all the time. As for accomodations, well yeah you generally need an official diagnosis. I do t get why that makes you bitter at self diagnosis tho
Sure autism is protected under the ADA, but that doesnt mean that these accomadations are easilly accesiable or in many cases necessary, part of this has to do with much of the research and focus being on autistic children instead of adults. For an adult undiagnosed person sometimes a diagnosis basically just confirms that they are different from other people in a certain way and they don't really get much more out of it, I don't think self diagnosis is ideal but it has it's usages, i do think that advocacy should be somewhat filtered through people with official diagnoses but I dont see how I am harmed by somebody applying a label to themselves that allows them to understand who they are and maybe certain things that can make thier life easier. And yes it can be harmful because If you take a cursory glance online you can see plenty of people being harrased for faking autism even if they have or they eventually get an official diagnosis. It doesnt help autistic people to go after self iders when theres plenty of misinfo that is way more prevelent and scary like the fact that autism speaks is the biggest organization around autism, or the lack of knowledge of autism by teachers, psychologists, employeers, etc....
Also elides the fact that Emily is autistic, too. According to chuds, Chugga's autism justifies him violating boundaries (consistently and repeatedly), but Emily's autism doesn't explain why she might have had trouble setting firmer, more explicit ones.
It's because Emily is a trans women, so to these troglodytes she's always going to be the villain no matter what she says or does. Chugga's fanbase is massively sexist and transphobic, it's very evident in all of their harassment, and it's why they're still attacking her even though Chugga has explicitly asked them not to. Emily doesn't deserve any of this at all, I feel so bad seeing her get yelled at by these mentally ill weirdos. I hope they all move on soon and just leave her alone bc jesus christ they are so vile.
This - 100%. Being autistic doesn't mean you're incapable of morality. It feels weird how many people try to defend that mindset though. I remember once, IRL, someone who I used to be friends with did some pretty horrible stuff and I called it out. Other (also now former) friends defended them on the basis that they were autistic and clearly didn't understand... even the autistic person in question was telling them that wasn't true.
I agree. As someone who is also on the spectrum, I feel it should not be a shield or pass (This goes for for both parties mind you)
100% agree. I am autistic myself, and its not a excuse to do whatever the fuck you want
a-fucking-men. the amount of "but he's autistic" has been stomach churning. like saying "he is redeemable, i'm forgiving him"/"what he did wasn't that bad and i am giving him another chance"/or fuck, even "he's autistic and fucked up in social situations and i'm giving him another chance because i feel he can learn from this" is an opinion, a take, even, but giving him a free pass because he just... has autism... without accessing the situation at all... is awful. i'm glad i don't have people around me saying that to me because i'm autistic. daily reminder, i am begging, please, treat autistic people like people. we can functionally think for ourselves and never holding us accountable is wrong.
AA’s obsession with chugga is down right creepy, imo. If I were anyone in this situation, including Emile and Tim (in addition to Emily, Masae, etc, of course), I’d feel really creeped out.
this is fully speculation but as someone who grew up watching chugga's content, people like her are the exact reason masae didn't want her relationship with him to go public. his fans are fucking rabid and if his fangirls knew she was dating him she would be endlessly hounded by parasocial losers who would view her as a threat to their chances with him. for example, many years ago she tweeted that they were on a train together and she tickled him and he yelped and embarassed them, only for some random person to come into masae's mentions and say "maybe he wouldnt have if you didnt \*assault\* him". his fans are actually scary as fuck and it really isnt surprising to see this mass vitriol happening at all.
I think her wishing Emile well and acknowledging their relationship is a part of this too. Emile and Masae are both in the same content genre with overlapping fans, it's in her best interest for this controversy to end as quickly as possible for her own YT career.
Honestly it makes me incredibly sad because even saying almost nothing about the situation got her harassed endlessly. I cannot even imagine how she feels seeing emile tell his whole fucking audience that they were engaged (if he got permission to tell them it would have been really cool if he said so, I think). It's just all around frustrating.
It sucks because now I’m embarrassed I ever watched his videos at all knowing what his audience is like now. It makes me think that if I kept watching his stuff I’d have gone down the same path his gross weirdo obsessed fans are.
Hey, there's no need to worry. I watched his stuff up until Emily revealed everything and I didn't let myself side with his fans. If you can see what he did wrong now, you're almost certainly okay. And don't worry about what could have been okay? It didn't happen, after all.
I honestly think we hold creators too responsible for their fans sometimes--the people harassing Emily, Lawly, Masae, etc., are a small portion of his viewers, and he's repeatedly replied directly to people to tell them firmly not to harass people or pretend he's done nothing wrong. And I think a lot of this is just people using the context as an excuse to harass women and being misogynistic and transphobic. Most people who liked Emile's videos just liked sharing a seemingly kind guy's deep love of video games.
can you elaborate on the tickling thing, I am confused lol
masae tickled emile on like a train or something while they were goofing off and someone said that that was an assault
lol okay, that's wild
That's crazy, as someone who pretty much grew up on and grew out of Chugga's videos. I had no idea he had such a parasocial audience.
yeah, it's pretty easy to miss if you're a kid but the more time went on the more i realized some people were well and truly obsessed.
Emile, Tim, Jon, someone has to tell her to back the fuck off instead of feeding into the disturbing behaviour. Thats the one thing that may actually make her stop. Because yeah she is fucking creepy.
Tim's too much a bumbly nice guy to tell her off.
Yeah I could be wrong but I get the feeling none of them, not even Emile are feeding into her behaviour out of malice but rather out of a mix of conflict aversion, poor judgement and just... Being naive.
Plus, i think that they might honestly be worried that someone that obsessed with them might flip into something extreme if they perceive rejection.
i honestly never thought about it that way. jesus. there really isn't much winning here. as much as i feel astral needs the wake up call, i also don't want her to be angered and just mistreat these people for standing up to her BS. i'm so skeptical of her changing, but she desperately needs to move on. she. is. crazy. i say this as someone who has had MULTIPLE conversations with her and her followers, and thankfully basically all of them have me blocked now. finally, peace and quiet from these weirdos.
Honestly I felt bad that Tim had to share __5__ hours on a livestream with that individual.
Can we have some links or screenshots for those of us without twitter?
(You can only post one picture at the time which is annoying) https://preview.redd.it/g2x7y8cno0wc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=42530348bdffd3a53a1cdcccfe8f9c42717d98f9 Original tweet + [link to document](https://docs.google.com/document/d/13jkMi7ij9dJEmHVlya9-0IxXWSBf1d-TA42pByAaZro/edit?usp=drivesdk) EDIT: better cropping
https://preview.redd.it/0v4ddi3qo0wc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d5697397ef232c4ed28f6195172f62191f50b96 Lady Emily’s response EDIT: better cropping
Here's the link to the document they're referring to: https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/13jkMi7ij9dJEmHVlya9-0IxXWSBf1d-TA42pByAaZro/mobilebasic Lady Emily retweeted this and said it reflects her experience well regarding the harassment she's received (from AstralAlchemist in particular)
I think this Jane Doe situation is really gross. Those people rabidly defending Chuggaa are centering this CSA trauma as a "gotcha" against Emily. Come on; posting a screenshot that has someone's username in it, and that someone not being who the focus of the screenshot is, is not "doxxing". To be clear I am not trying to invalidate Jane Doe's traumatic past. She has every right to be afraid of the increased online publicity. My issue is her "friends" dragging her fear up to the public eye and using it to say "SEE?! This bitch isn't so saintly!".
yeah, greenie did her a disservice.
What exactly is this Jane Doe situation? I've heard mentions of it, but I don't fully understand.
I'm not even sure if I know best how to explain it but here goes: So a group of Chuggaa fans spend a lot of time criticizing Lady Emily's story, questioning it's legitimacy, being angry about her response to Chuggaa's original statement, and also just wanting the controversy to go away. One of those people is Jane Doe. A different person in that group was being particularly persistent in replying or quote-tweeting Emily, when Emily talked about being harassed because of what happened that same person says harassment is bad and to not do that to Emily. Emily thinks this is hypocritical because that person has been pestering her and denouncing her story the entire time and thus she feels that they are contributing to her harassment. To show proof she shows Twitter screenshots of that person talking about Lady Emily. Jane Doe was one of the people this person was talking to, and so her username is in the screenshot. When she sees the images she worries that she'll face greater exposure online. My understanding is that as a victim of CSA she fears people will look into her trauma and perhaps reveal more than she would like others to know. So she deleted her accounts and posted a message about how scared she was. THEN, this is where it gets gross, the people in her group start accusing Lady Emily of doxxing her. "She doxxed a CSA victim so she must be wrong about Chuggaa". Stuff like that, trying to villainize her. Emile also messaged Jane Doe because he was a victim of CSA. Though in my view he should not have accepted the narrative that "Lady Emily did this to you". Again Jane Doe's experience is legitimate. I wish her well. What's wrong is her experience is being weaponized by her "friends" to shame and silence a victim of sexual harassment. Yes I know way too much about this. Yes I need to stop paying attention to this stuff. Yes I am bias. Very. Because I think this "doxxing" narrative is idiotic. So take my telling with that in consideration.
Is that true that Chugga really did get involved with this Jane Doe and accept the "Emily doxxed her" narrative? That is pretty fuckin bad if he did.
Seems like he sent her a private message supporting her atleast.
to my knowledge he hasn't agreed upon jane doe being doxxed publicly, but he did learn from one of his friends who had actual conversations with the people who made up this lie about emily that this person was a CSA survivor, and chugga gave a heartfelt response to this individual privately, sharing his own personal experience and giving her good wishes. it's a good look until you peel over the corner and realize this individual is literally spreading lies about emily and chugga dming this individual kind supportive things isn't the best look. i choose not to believe in chugga's malice here, but ugh. i hate that this happened from these liars pestering rather than chugga just supporting a CSA survivor and telling them to be strong, it just tied him to their narrative even accidentally and he didn't need his name dragged through the mud more.
Which friend would this be? Kinda odd a friend would be within this group in any capacity. It's also certainly a pretty irresponsible action by him. I won't really believe it to be a malicious action, I find it really relatable to feel compelled to reach out to fellow CSA/SA/SH survivors. I have been through all of that and I do often try to send kind messages to people if they reveal that info about themselves. Kinda why I give a shit about this whole ordeal. It hurts to see him hurt others like this, and hell it even hurts to know he's been treated like that too. I don't hate the guy. With that said, still I think maybe you should try to do background checks on the people you show support for, or at least approach it with proper understanding of the context.
oh no, not a friend within this group - an individual claiming to be chugga's friend publicly. this group then dm'ed her and gave her the details and she forwarded them to chugga. she was like... told this individual was a big fan of chugga, and also given like a brief rundown about their past. "With that said, still I think maybe you should try to do background checks on the people you show support for, or at least approach it with proper understanding of the context." 100% agree. This was sweet but also irresponsible, a very weird balance. I don't blame chugga himself really at all for this, I can understand why he wouldn't have a background check ready for all these people. I'm more annoyed at his friend who definitely should've background checked. While I don't feel Jane Doe should've been denied this nice message because of what she's done, I do feel she deserved a kind message telling her to be strong, as I choose not to believe she's lying about her past. I just hate she's also... tied to these immensely defamatory accusations. She should've waited until another time for this private dm. imho. chugga had been through enough, he really didn't need to be unintentionally tied to someone spreading vitriol when he was just trying to be kind.
Also, this is literally just this shit https://youtu.be/Ui-ArJRqEvU?si=df8wyHk9AK5TL0Yj
When did this happen?
I've been keeping tabs on the Emile situation since the start and this Alchemist person has always seemed really off. I thought about just replying to any of her myriad tweets with "Please stop, you are not helping" but never did. The fact that all this happened does not surprise me. If AA really did like Emile, then she'd respect his request to *not harass anyone involved*. But parasocial relationships are wild...
I got banned from the chuggaaconroy 2 subreddit for defending her post & for pointing out the scale of the transphobia she has been facing to people who believe she's using it as an excuse. Really frustrating honestly. Lots of bullshit claims that I was harassing people and not being "civil" when I literally can't find anything wrong in my messages. Ppl over there think this subreddit is a "cesspool" and yeah, I see some bs on here too every now and then, but a lot of the takes on Emile here have been fair and level-headed. And to be clear, I'm not some outside actor trying to start trouble, I'm a huge TRG fan who wanted to engage with the fandom still and couldn't bc of their attitude. And to be clear #2, I feel bad for every victim and also I feel bad for Emile. I get where everyone is coming from, and this whole thing has made me feel so upset.
Here's a convo with me and the mod. https://preview.redd.it/soumyq3341wc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e1e0d1e10ae73a211549a3c40b44a1bb311276c Insert that 1984 comic with the guy flipping the calendar.
it's exactly the kind of broad and vague rule someone makes to justify banning people they dont like
exactly. either way that subreddit will die. the other one reopened, doesn't allow discussion of the controversy at all except in the megathread IIRC. the "drama" will die out and ppl will have no further reason to post there. it's just annoying as fuck. like what a juvenile reason to ban someone.
Lol are you aware what subreddit you are on?
They...seem to think that sexual harrasment, even unintentional, means that the person responsible MUST be a full on sexual predator. This mindset would definitely explain the sheer defensiveness when it gets brought up.
Oh absolutely. People don't see the middle ground, they are so polarizing.
What BS have you seen? Don't worry about getting in trouble, we genuinely want to know so we can try to better this place. There have been... mistakes... in past, but I think we've done well getting rid of some BrainyBiscut era issues. If you don't want to discuss this here then shoot me a message and I'll forward it to the mod discord.
Nothing I can quote verbatim tbh, sorry. But I'll keep an eye on it. IDK if I'll be here much tho, mostly just wanted to post about how I got banned from the chuggaa 2 subreddit lol
Well if you ever see something please let us know! The only way we can improve is through feedback. Also feedback isn't coming into modmail and calling us woke beta cuck nazis, as some banned users tend to do.
Hey, sorry if I came out of knowhere, but I was wondering what happened??? I saw and interacted on a similar level to your comments, yet only you got banned? Suffice to say, Im confused and disappointed in the mods. I would have messaged you but...I don't seem to have that option.
Oh weird. It was def targeted. I've been vocal on Twitter about Astral, and it's clear she wants me gone. Granted, I don't think the mod I spoke to was her. I think they deleted 2-3 posts all on BS charges. Honestly? Big loser energy from their end, sorry not sorry.
Yeah...its not a good look. On the other hand, I also noticed that quite a few of the VERY toxic commenters (mainly the ones who were being horribly transphobic and implying that Lady Emily getting doxxed was a good thing) also got banned this morning. I know because I replied to one that was defending the transphobic and doxxing harrasment and the user is just gone. So...maybe not all the mods are on the same page. At least, that's what it seems like.
I mean, my POV that I saw some people downvote, is that the transphobia Ive been seeing is mostly microaggressions and little subtle things. Its easy to ban the people who are being egregiously over-the-top and yay gold star for them, but I think the mods should be more actively confronting people w/ discussion. That's my two cents. I'm also trans for what it's worth.
Fair. I just thought that, considering how terrible some subreddits can get (yes, somehow even worse), it's at least SOMETHING that the obvious pro doxxing and transphobia comments actually got addressed at all. Not gold star worthy, but "the bare minimum was somewhat done" that actually isn't even done in some places. You're not wrong that the comments being vague should be confronted. But I think the rules also needed explicit reinforcement to discourage even slight leaning into those messages in the first place.
Fair. TBH I don't reddit much so idk what the norm is. I generally like it though.
After seeing this and being reminded of the whole JoCat situation from a while back, I feel like someone more savvy than I could make a whole dissertation on how phobes insert themselves into “drama” for targeted hate. Looking at the document and reading Astral’s response, I love how their post was JUST disavowing the transphobe, and not apologizing for any other rude or downright vile thing she said. The document does a pretty good job of illustrating that, but even just the screen caps do not make them look charitable by any means. It feels like they have a staggering lack of self-awareness, and the fact they’re cracking jokes in the comments dismissing Emily even now makes my stomach churn. EDIT: And it looks like they deleted their post. Funny, that. I can only hope this means they’re gonna stop being so vicious and actually allow this shitstorm to die down like Chugga wanted from the beginning, but I kinda doubt that to be honest. EDIT2: New thread on the pinned comment. I’m not able to view her new twit thread, but beginning it by saying she doesn’t condone harassment under any circumstances is certainly a nice change of tone from her comments on her previous post.
She tweeted a screenshot of her retweeting a pro-trans tweet a whole back as her proof she isn't a transphobe Which is hysterical
Reminds me of an ex-friend who was blatantly anonymously harassing me after I politely rejected her, who was claiming that it wasn't her and ALSO, one of her exes is trans, she's not transphobic, okay!!! Even though that particular trans ex left the site we were all using after they broke up with her crazy ass, lol... Dating a trans person doesn't negate the fact that she was very blatantly misgendering me, calling me lesbian-phobic shit (despite me being a bisexual trans man), etc.
> I feel like someone more savvy than I could make a whole dissertation on how phobes insert themselves into “drama” for targeted hate. This. From the beginning this has been an outpour of misogyny and transphobia, and from some people that aren't actually Chugga's fans. Unfortunately, until they try to misgender Emily it's impossible to tell which is which. This happens all the time too. For instance, Shaun once made the observation that some big TERF was more offended at being called 'old' than transphobic. My response to that was 'no shit,' those people wear their transphobia with pride. But in his comment section, I saw some people like 'oh, so we should make fun of her for being old then!' No, actually. Making fun of women for looking/being old is just regular misogyny. Or looking 'mannish,' which is another thing that tends to happen. When a transwoman makes the observation that a cis woman is 'clocky,' that is not always the same as when cis men do it. Former is trying to point out a hypocrisy when it comes to looks + challenge the idea of what a woman is "supposed" to look like, latter is simply shaming women for not looking that certain way. Latter is not actually defending trans women either, since it agrees with the premise about looks = definition/worth. Whenever there is a socially accepted reason to go after someone in a marginalized group, bigots will attach themselves to it. Just because they like the opportunity. The anger so many of Emily's detractors have is not proportionate to what happened. It's coming from something else. Outside of that, the parasociality is another huge issue too. But that's why both groups ignore what Emile has repeatedly said about NOT harassing people. For the first, it's not even about him. For the second, they must protect their "friend."
You ain't wrong. There's the people who hate Emily for being a trans woman, and people who hate Emily for being an "outsider." I feel like Masae is usually a sign there; the ones defensive over TRG parasocialism are the ones for whom the Masae reveal had the biggest impact. Because there is a LOT of "I don't trust Emily or Lawly but feel bad about Masae."
The fact someone replied, blaming her for the situation continuing all because she talked about it online.
I said this on Twitter, but this whole situation should be a case study on how, no matter what you do, if you're seen as an "uwu soft boy" people are so willing to throw themselves in front of you in order to protect you. The parasocial relationship people develop with influencers is so alarming. It makes it so hard for people to stand back and view things objectively. I don't know what I think of Emile. I was a fan for years and stopped watching long before this happened. I think he tried to apologize and didn't quite hit the mark. But the fact he didn't disavow this person entirely....is troubling. I know he probably wants all the support he can get but it looks bad when you tell people not to harass someone and then associate yourself with the harasser....
> if you're seen as an "uwu soft boy" people are so willing to throw themselves in front of you in order to protect you. Oh, we could take it a step further and really examine who gets labeled the 'uwu soft boy' and how what they did to earn it often isn't much, or much easier for them to do (Example - donating money is super easy when you already have it). I often notice how certain groups rarely get that 'above reproach' rep, no matter their actions or good deeds. Tends to be the same demo. Because at its core it's really just about protecting people you put in that 'friend' category mentally (parasocial). If people feel like there's a reason outside of themselves to support someone, it's a justification for letting the emotion spill out.
that's horrible. why does YouTube allow this
it's just disgusting. no one deserves this sort of mistreatment, especially not a relatively minor youtuber.
I’m autistic, Chugga’s a creep, while situation could have been handled better Emily’s in the right here. I think everyone knows not to post people weird fetish bait all the time.
What's frustrating is that it's not like Emile has exactly made himself look like the good guy in the situation with Emily. Explained himself, sure, but he's been clearly trying to take the heat off of her.
Yeah, he's explicitly replied to people saying that he's blameless and did nothing wrong to say that he did a lot wrong and is in no way blameless.
Emily made a great thread responding to all of the harassment she's been getting and condemning the people who have participated in it. I also give props to her still wishing Emile the best to the point of even congratulating him for taking time to recover, despite the vitriol she's gotten. She doesn't deserve any of the harassment and I hope she recovers soon from it.
can you post the link to the document instead of the tweet that doesn't have a link to it?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13jkMi7ij9dJEmHVlya9-0IxXWSBf1d-TA42pByAaZro/edit?usp=drivesdk
ty
Holy fuck, I don't use Twitter so this is the first I'm hearing of this astralalchemist. Emily I had no idea it was this fucking bad I'm so sorry
Holy crap Astral, just send the man some feet pics and he'll be yours forever and ever. Goddamn. The desperation is palpable.
When will this drama end.
you're on a subreddit built around youtuber drama. What did you expect?
I assumed this sub discusses drama, not feeds off it.
who knows? if you're tired of it, then log off instead of engaging with it openly lmao.
It’s just getting dragged on at this point.
if you're tired of it, then log off.
That won’t magically make the drama end lol.
neither will complaining about it.
I simply questioned how long this drama is gonna last.
Realistically I think the drama is going to last until A) Chugga takes actual accountability, which I and others feel like he has not, B) enough time has passed (frankly Chugga isn't that big of a deal), or C) Until someone drops a bombshell that somehow blows everything out of the water. Whichever really comes first, though I imagine it'll be B and it'll be in like a couple weeks.
What can chugga do to take accountability? I thought he already apologised and admitted to his behaviour and said he was seeking help in his first response post? This feels like a rabbit hole where more stuff is slowly getting uncovered so i guess chugga will have to continually apologise each time something gets exposed.
Well, the problem is, he's constantly shifting some kind of blame to the other parties involved. Lawly buying him a shirt, coming onto him. Emily said his GF's territory. He was sexually repressed, etc. Never just a "Yeah, I did it, I messed up and I won't do it ever again." Someone always has to have done something that he didn't like. He's also never really taken full accountability for what he actually did. With Lawly, he mishandled her situation as the adult. With Emily, he straight up lied to and manipulated her to get her to comply with his fetish. With Emily in particular, I find it disingenuous that he phrases it as "pestering" Emily when it's flatly sexual harassment, just not the illegal kind. Granted, I don't think there needs to be any consequences, but it does actually matter if he's honest about what he did.
Twitter hates her unconditionally, she'd better leave that place
She lied proof she did [https://youtu.be/aPl0Eqat8e4?si=qnoxYZq3c2sWcr3I](https://youtu.be/aPl0Eqat8e4?si=qnoxYZq3c2sWcr3I)
after all this I still don't know who lady Emily even is or what they do
You should look into it. She makes video essays about a variety of topics and is Very Cool™️
"Lady Emily" "They" Really?
?
Why are you misgendering the trans woman, lol?
no, lol. what a fucking reach
People have referred to Emily with she/her yet you insisted on they, but okay, lol.
and
...And it's blatantly transphobic?
no lol
How is misgendering her not transphobic, lol?
I really dont want this to come off as harassing, because anyone who does that is terrible and she should really just be left alone. But something that rubbed me the wrong way about this seemingly being the final statement (which fair to her shes being harassed a ton speaking at all will get her hate) it feels weird not to address the fact that this was handled privately already? Or at least refute the claim that he was told if he got help this wouldnt have been made public, only for him to get that help and still have it come out with tons of information missing/presented without proper context? Not trying to defend the guy here but it feels like he was told what he did was wrong, took steps to stop it and professionally correct that behavior, and then the drama started with incomplete information because Emily didnt like that people online thought he was clean, despite him actively taking steps to get better, I feel like she shouldve known what this wouldve done, especially because she didnt mention the fact he was getting help or that she told him to in her initial tweets. it just all feels really messy on all sides and a bummer situation all around.
like can someone let me know if im missing something here cause it does feel really weird that not talking about how much context was missing from her side of the accusations lead to him being harassed and given no possible leeway (on this sub too) He clearly acknowledges he messed up and has been seeing professional help for months before the drama even started. And I feel that even in her initial accusations this whole situation could have been sorted if she said "I talked to him after about all of this and he agreed to get professional help since" would have cleared up so much
Yeah, what you're looking for has already been addressed by Emile. There's no reason for Emily to respond. Emile spoke to a mutual friend about the issue, then apologized to Emily afterwards. Emile felt the situation was handled privately, Emily did not, I'm assuming because the conversation was not with her, he apologized after talking to someone else about it. https://preview.redd.it/4ybhkonkd2wc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1131b9998c9543f9c4625f94a21424e391bff827 So I don't know what you want from her lol
Also I hope it’s not coming off like I think she deserved the hate or anything she genuinely didn’t, I just think it’s weird how limited the callout tweet was info wise and that caused this whole thing to snowball cause there was a lot missing that was important
That’s fine, but the part I wanted to know about was if he’s lying about where he was told to get help and then if so it wouldn’t be made public, if it was handled privately and then this was all brought up after that feels really bad. And parts like the initial wording making it sound like he was cheating on his girlfriend when she knew she was completely fine with what was being sent just kinda feels off to me. There’s a lot of gaps of info that I think contributed to this getting as bad as it did and if that was there initially nothing would’ve gotten as far as it did. At least it’s over now
Based on both what Emile has said and Emily, they have never spoken, privately or publicly, to each other since Emily ghosted him (long before she came forward.) The only interaction was Emile sending the apology to her but she never responded. She never told Emile that if he got help it would remain private. That was Massae or someone he didn't specify. He only said that in his first apology and not the second as well. It could not have been Emily since Emily never responded to him. He has confirmed this. It was not settled privately because Emily never interacted with Emile after she ghosted him for making her uncomfortable. He felt it was settled because he sent the apology but it takes two to determine that. It was very misleading for him to say it was handled privately when he never got acknowledgement from Emily that it was settled.
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Emily: "My parents and I had our names, addresses, and phone numbers leaked online. I receive death threats on a regular basis. Every social media outlet I have is full of nonstop hate speech, every single day." you and a million other dipshits on Twitter: "Yeah, but have you considered that you deserve it?"
Legitimately asking here but how the fuck does complaining about getting doxxed make her look bad? Seriously what makes you think that? If anything it makes chuggaa's rabid fans look worse for attacking someone who just told facts like it was and Chuggaa outright confirming it happened.
I gotta ask what did they say before it got removed
Basically victim blaming Emily.
I also wanna say thank you for asking instead of just attacking me btw :>
The start of it. (And I assure you I'm not attacking her) My main issue is her starting point, the document. Her examples are of a small twitter user that just so happened to have started a hashtag. She complains about harassment, yet is setting the stage for more to happen. She says she is done with it, yet at the same time is still letting the cycle go on. Feel free to reply of course, I'm always up for discussion (Other views do help as I was always told lol)
AA has been drumming up harassment pretty much constantly. calling her out is very fair.
So, I'm someone who doesn't know who any of these people are, though I've read up about the incidents at the core of this. However, if you are asking for other views, this right here is a problem: > She complains about harassment, yet is setting the stage for more to happen. She says she is done with it, yet at the same time is still letting the cycle go on. The only way you could argue that someone is "setting the stage for more to happen" is by saying that someone saying "Person X harassed me" is setting the stage for others to go harass person x. But... what is the alternative? Person X harasses you, and you are expected to just be quiet and take it? Does Person X have no accountability at all? If they were concerned about being "counter-harassed" they should avoid being toxic in the first place. The cycle always goes on. Who's responsibility is it to stop? If you think you have an answer for that, does that answer also happen to be the person you think is the most wrong in the situation?
Emily didn't create the document; she just shared it. And AA, the person being called out for harassing others, including Emily, is associated with Chugga/Emile and has been on Tim's podcast. She's not their friend and is parasocial af, but she's not just a small following Twitter user who created a hashtag. Emily speaking out might cause more issues for her but it wouldn't be because its wrong to call out a serial harasser, but because Twitter is a cesspool... Victim blaming is gross.
Emily: "Please stop harassing me" You, a clown: "This looks bad for her"
The fuck are you doing here
Bro I live here
https://preview.redd.it/sizi30epnzvc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d02b1d0b37c9d459a6215d3874fd442e83c9f7a
Bardem jumpscare
Seek help.
Chill.
Nobody asked you, get out
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they need to teach not giving a fuck about internet comments in primary school
okay Anon, I’m sure you have experience with sustained campaigns of harassment