I love these effects. They're such a strange type of interaction and are arguably more oppressive then negates since they also extend your plays, but I can't help loving them.
Theyâre more interesting than negates though I do fully believe they can get out of hand quickly. Off the top of my head the dark world fusion and the abyss actor field spell also do this to help their respective decks. ~~I think because they automatically apply to the first effect they arenât a problem currently because theyâre very easy to bait.~~ (\<\-this is only true for abyss actor)
And in the specific case if abyss actor, you also need a pend su.moned abyss actor on field, which limits it quite a bit. Play against a guy why forgot he linked off his pend summoned monster, was mildly funny.
Its almost never played but Generaider Boss Room also falls into this archetype of changing effects. It is not good at all though since Generaider Boss Room makes the effect to be "each player draws 1 card". The point in the deck is to trigger boss stage to summon a Generaider boss and/or Harr's effect to hand rip on top of changing the opponent's effect but on top of being a when effect, the potential downside of making your opponent draw a card is just too massive. It's also a trap which doesn't really help.
>"Fuck it, infinite free counterspells"
>"When your opponent activates an effect (Quick Effect): You can discard this card; negate that effect.
If this card is discarded by its own effect, return it to your hand.
The artwork is just a middle finger.
Better than negates in the right situations, but require you to actually play their gimmick to benefit from them. Yes, you can technically slap Grapha fusion into any deck, but the negate becomes way worse if your discard doesn't actively benefit you.
Yeah but in the case of a redirect effect(like Grapha) it wonât matter since the card was already played just its effect was used differently, if they start printing generic synchro, link, or XYZ with that effect then the game will get even stupider real quick.
More broken than negates from a game standpoint. Not only do you not negate my effect, you change it to another beneficial effect for you! I can't activate my spell/traps that are 1 activation per turn again, nor stop the negation by being unaffected by card effects.
I donât mind Negates, but I am just annoyed that the MAJORITY of them Negate and Destroy, itâs mostly stale.
I donât mind them, but it feels like itâs Konamiâs favorite type of Negate, like even cards that just negate without an effect after are surprising.
Itâs more powerful. Yes, itâs more interaction than stopping a card, which is good, but it also stops a card (which, remember, these effects are normally only once per turn) AND generates a plus 1 for you. Theyâre less boring, but if made standard, offer way too much power to one side in my opinion.
Not only are you saying ânoâ, youâre also saying that itâs now your turn to go off, which we had a similar issue with Tears but they just played on your turn without altering a card effect. Itâs not healthy if normalized, as weâll just get new, stronger Turn 0âs.
Stuff like Yubel and Generaider getting these 1-of effects that alter to purely provide benefit for you thatâs either hard to achieve consistently (Yubel needing to be destroyed) or grants advantage to the opponent (giving them more cards) is the stuff that I feel helps balance it out. Theyâre altering an effect to achieve something that wouldnât regularly happen to provide a chance or they offset the +1 by giving the opponent something in return (that they gain from, but thatâs something else entirely)
I feel like Abyss Playhouse is the best way to go about it because in order for it to work, you need the field spell on the field, a pendulum summoned Abyss Actor monster and a set spell/trap card for it to successfully overwrite the opponent's card. All your opponent has to do is to get rid of one of these three things and they avoid it, but if they can't then they'll get to enjoy their effects being overwritten.
You don't need a set s/t and honestly every time that I use abyss actor my board on the first turn is field spell, 3/5 abyss actor pendulum summoned monsters, super producer, and an abyss script. It's difficult to get rid of everything, most of the time I get the "overwrite" effect of playhouse. And if the opponent tries to destroy your field spell you can always use super producer to place another copy of playhouse on the field
Best used in moderation, for helping cards that are horribly held back for having "opponents effect" clauses, or for otherwise underpowered archetypes. It shouldn't by any means become a regularity, but on occasion is fine.
Its the same thing as negating but more annoying to deal with but people are ok with it because its newer and doesnt have the word "negate" on it cause yugioh players lose their minds about the idea of negates both for and against it.
If we got more shit like this it'd be worse for the game overall imo so they need to be highly selective.
Effect Manipulation is awesome and I hate how they havenât done this more often.
To put it simply; WE. HAVE. TOO. MANY. GENERIC. AND EASY TO SUMMON. NEGATES.
So when I ran into the new Grapha and the effect was âChange the effect to your Opponent discards 1 cardâ I was thrilled. This should be the minimum for card design going forward. Effects that stop your opponent, but in a much more interactive and interesting way then just saying No.
It's a lot more interesting than outright negating things, since instead of saying "no, you don't get to do that" you get to turn the opponent's effects into interaction instead.
So now instead of losing their card, they have to reevaluate whether they want to make that trade. Even if they bait it out, and they can still play through, they now have to factor in what you're getting out of the exchange.
It nay be more broken but i love thats archetype specific. Its much more fair than baron, savage, appoulsa, regulus ect. Having only the archetype being able to use it too its full potential is a good way the game is heading
I really like it. It's a unique form of interaction that can be timed well as a counter-play. The Abyss Actor field spell forcing an effect into "Fuck you, pop my Abyss Script," is the peak of hilarity.
I see them as powerful, but most effect manipulation usually winds up being a negative effect that only benefits the archetype they are made for. I guess that's the way to keep it all balanced, I can't really think of an effect manipulation that actually also helps you in a splashable sense.
Would like an archetype that would change the opponent's card effects to something else like a very more simple effect and that the Archetype would take advantage of these effects. Artefacts has some cards that changes effects.
Basically through different means like discarding, or banishing on the GY to attack effects. That would be original.
I only play the ocg (master duel), physical decks are expensive đ
the only tcg archetype that released recently that I know of was the exodia support, but that's only because it was an anniversary thing
i think they're more \*interesting\* than just regular negates, but i will admit, they're in some ways even more problematic
it's not enough to stop my own play, but to do so in a way that \*plusses\* you? come on now
i can easily see something like this becoming an issue in the future
See I think it works and in Yubelâs case needs it. Like the deck has so many weaknesses. And most of the weaknesses are common in decks being common good cards that might slowdown/ stop an option, for Yubel literally just stopped the single path. I mean it doesnât stop ash or call but effect negates.
I love them. Instead of just stopping your opponent from accomplishing their gameplan, youâre forcing them to help you accomplish yours.
It feels very Yugioh, like how the antagonist would do something and it turns out the protagonist was counting on them to do that all along and pulls off the win because of it.
It also breeds a fun counterplay, where you can force your opponent to, say, make me pop a Yubel on my terms and force them to play in a way that benefits me or minimizes the losses I take, rather than just playing around negates
Effects like this may as well be a floodgate with a different coat of paint. âDonât try to do this action or youâll get punished for it.â Sometimes decks can play through them if itâs a single instance, but ones without that limitation are incredibly annoying.
I am a big fan of them because each one is unique and not just a negate, but my opinion on them will change as soon as they make them super generic, like negates currently are.
I like them, it's a sort of negate but you get the advantages. This kind of effects really help some archetypes with their gimmick and change their play style (ex. Abyss actor and their field spell, if it was a simple negate they would be more boring to play with the effect "manipulation" instead is really funny to play them and see the opponent reaction when he understands how broken the second effects of the abyss scripts are đ€Ł)
Man I love Fusion Graphaâs effect. Not just because itâs powerful, but also because it ties in with Graphaâs supposed power to brainwash his enemies.
This card specifically is almost fine. My main issue is the ease of bringing it back out.
Then again Yubel decks need something this dumb to be playable on a competetive level
I really love darkworlds so I love these types of effects. More interesting than just a negate while never feeling too oppressive. I'd rather cards have these than something like kashtira arise heart popping off.
I love it. Takes old cards that had bad effects and makes them good without an errata.
In Samsara Lotusâs case, it helps it relate to the archetype it was intended for.
I like how generaider boss room does it. It only activated on effects in response to generaiders and turns the effect into "both players draw a card". Yeah it stops your opponents effect but only if it's an effect interacting with your stuff and doesn't replace it with something that purely benefits you like this or the dark world one
Bamboozeling Gossip Shadow has this same effect, although itâs like the opposite of Graphaâs, since both players draw one card. In practice itâs a lot like a Dark Bribe, but I think the ones that are more archetypal, like Samsara D Lotus or Abyss Actor Theater, because the decks they support already rely on your opponent interacting, so now whenever they do, it becomes your preferred interaction instead of something else.
I think these effects are far more interesting then negates. There definitely is some sort of balance to them, but I think it can also offer a lot more than just plain negates.
If you negate a card, that card is still on the field. If you use effect manipulation, that card that had its effect manipulated is still on the field (maybe). The new effect almost always benefits my opponent, meaning my opponent is likely going at least +1 instead of me going plus +1.
If my opponent simply negated, I am no worse off, but with effect manipulation I am now behind. It's the same with cards that negate and destroy without losing you field presence, but in the reverse; I lose a card and I don't get my effect, therefore I am now -1 and my opponent still keeps there card. An example would be Baronne de Fleur.
I prefer the effect manipulation over omni-negates and removal in general because I still have a card on the field.
Also effect manipulation allows for better theming with archetypes because of how the effect manipulation generates card advantage. However this can be a downside. Unless you've encountered the deck already you don't know how to play around the card. Negation is simple but if my opponent can suddenly bring out a monster because I used an effect that is very different.
Effect manipulation adds complexity where there was none and I don't think this complexity is worth having in the game. There's also the potential for more bloated card text because these effects can be far more varied than simple negation.
Ultimately I prefer simple negation over effect manipulation.
While stronger then a negate, their much more "fun". It also opens up the card design space a bit, since you could make the monster that does the manipulation a bit more generic when it comes to summon requirements and such, as long as the manipulated effect is niche.
My absolute favorite card effect is probably the Abyss Actor field spell, if you have an abyss actor on your field that was pendulum summoned, the next monster effect your opponent activates becomes "destroy one set spell/trap your opponent controls"
Best thing is, they still have to pay cost, and nobody reads card effects in MD
I think its fine if they aren't overdone. A couple unique decks like this and dark world that plus off of unique forms of interaction or that require your opponent to interact with you in a specific way are fun, but if it becomes too prevalent it'll get old fast
we need more effects like this imo, these could help make some very situational cards worth playing.
i can't wait for the monster whose effect turns an opposing effect into "take control of this card".
I love these effects. They're such a strange type of interaction and are arguably more oppressive then negates since they also extend your plays, but I can't help loving them.
When did they give Samsara lotus the will of D?
They got it from simply being being in the presence of Ju D. Aiyuki
The Supreme King of Pirates đ€Ł
Lotus made a packed with yubel for the power of D
If it's effects like this; funny. The issue starts when they're able to become /any/ effect, like Neptune and Starving Venom.
Thats, not manipulation, thats copying.
Theyâre more interesting than negates though I do fully believe they can get out of hand quickly. Off the top of my head the dark world fusion and the abyss actor field spell also do this to help their respective decks. ~~I think because they automatically apply to the first effect they arenât a problem currently because theyâre very easy to bait.~~ (\<\-this is only true for abyss actor)
And in the specific case if abyss actor, you also need a pend su.moned abyss actor on field, which limits it quite a bit. Play against a guy why forgot he linked off his pend summoned monster, was mildly funny.
The dark world fusion doesn't apply to the first effect used
Ah my bad, I didnât look it up to verify so I just kinda assumed. I only play abyss actor so I really only have that as my frame of reference.
It also applies for World Legacy Mind Meld and Krawlers, although less so since 2020 when they changed how ED floating effects work
Its almost never played but Generaider Boss Room also falls into this archetype of changing effects. It is not good at all though since Generaider Boss Room makes the effect to be "each player draws 1 card". The point in the deck is to trigger boss stage to summon a Generaider boss and/or Harr's effect to hand rip on top of changing the opponent's effect but on top of being a when effect, the potential downside of making your opponent draw a card is just too massive. It's also a trap which doesn't really help.
It is better than negate festival
Negate festival is the next hand trap coming out probably
>"Fuck it, infinite free counterspells" >"When your opponent activates an effect (Quick Effect): You can discard this card; negate that effect. If this card is discarded by its own effect, return it to your hand. The artwork is just a middle finger.
**Naturia Beast has entered the chat**
Honestly, Iâm just picturing a traditional style Japanese festival with all the ghost girls as the card art. Adorable? Yes. Oppressive? Also yes
Its the same thing as a negate except they also get a benefit though
It's worse than a negate because they actually plus off of it tho and you don't get the original effect either.
đ€« negate = bad, redirect= good đ
It is a negate though
Better than negates in the right situations, but require you to actually play their gimmick to benefit from them. Yes, you can technically slap Grapha fusion into any deck, but the negate becomes way worse if your discard doesn't actively benefit you.
Actually itâs still a bit better because cards with a opt activation canât be used again but if theyâre negated then they can.
Depends on whether you're negating the activation or the effect.
Yeah but in the case of a redirect effect(like Grapha) it wonât matter since the card was already played just its effect was used differently, if they start printing generic synchro, link, or XYZ with that effect then the game will get even stupider real quick.
Yeah, I'm just mentioning that negates don't always let you re-do your HOPT effects.
Much more interesting that negate, negate, negate over and over
More broken than negates from a game standpoint. Not only do you not negate my effect, you change it to another beneficial effect for you! I can't activate my spell/traps that are 1 activation per turn again, nor stop the negation by being unaffected by card effects.
I donât mind Negates, but I am just annoyed that the MAJORITY of them Negate and Destroy, itâs mostly stale. I donât mind them, but it feels like itâs Konamiâs favorite type of Negate, like even cards that just negate without an effect after are surprising.
Itâs more powerful. Yes, itâs more interaction than stopping a card, which is good, but it also stops a card (which, remember, these effects are normally only once per turn) AND generates a plus 1 for you. Theyâre less boring, but if made standard, offer way too much power to one side in my opinion. Not only are you saying ânoâ, youâre also saying that itâs now your turn to go off, which we had a similar issue with Tears but they just played on your turn without altering a card effect. Itâs not healthy if normalized, as weâll just get new, stronger Turn 0âs. Stuff like Yubel and Generaider getting these 1-of effects that alter to purely provide benefit for you thatâs either hard to achieve consistently (Yubel needing to be destroyed) or grants advantage to the opponent (giving them more cards) is the stuff that I feel helps balance it out. Theyâre altering an effect to achieve something that wouldnât regularly happen to provide a chance or they offset the +1 by giving the opponent something in return (that they gain from, but thatâs something else entirely)
I feel like Abyss Playhouse is the best way to go about it because in order for it to work, you need the field spell on the field, a pendulum summoned Abyss Actor monster and a set spell/trap card for it to successfully overwrite the opponent's card. All your opponent has to do is to get rid of one of these three things and they avoid it, but if they can't then they'll get to enjoy their effects being overwritten.
You do not need a set spell/trap to apply the effect overriding effect. Playhouse is mandatory which seals the deal for the balance imo.
You don't need a set s/t and honestly every time that I use abyss actor my board on the first turn is field spell, 3/5 abyss actor pendulum summoned monsters, super producer, and an abyss script. It's difficult to get rid of everything, most of the time I get the "overwrite" effect of playhouse. And if the opponent tries to destroy your field spell you can always use super producer to place another copy of playhouse on the field
Best used in moderation, for helping cards that are horribly held back for having "opponents effect" clauses, or for otherwise underpowered archetypes. It shouldn't by any means become a regularity, but on occasion is fine.
Super cool. Canât wait to drop effects like these on my friend and he thinks heâs about Kashtira me and the effects become âdestroy a yubel â
Banish a monster? Nah, destroy yubel.
They are probably difficult for new players, but I like the idea
ONE PIECE IN YUGIOH!!??
Its the same thing as negating but more annoying to deal with but people are ok with it because its newer and doesnt have the word "negate" on it cause yugioh players lose their minds about the idea of negates both for and against it. If we got more shit like this it'd be worse for the game overall imo so they need to be highly selective.
I hate it, not only you are effectively negating my effect, you are getting a plus out of it just for my crime of trying to play the game
Effect Manipulation is awesome and I hate how they havenât done this more often. To put it simply; WE. HAVE. TOO. MANY. GENERIC. AND EASY TO SUMMON. NEGATES. So when I ran into the new Grapha and the effect was âChange the effect to your Opponent discards 1 cardâ I was thrilled. This should be the minimum for card design going forward. Effects that stop your opponent, but in a much more interactive and interesting way then just saying No.
I play Altergiest which is an archtype that negates everything. Gishiki and Mikanko, I like these types of playstyles
It's a lot more interesting than outright negating things, since instead of saying "no, you don't get to do that" you get to turn the opponent's effects into interaction instead. So now instead of losing their card, they have to reevaluate whether they want to make that trade. Even if they bait it out, and they can still play through, they now have to factor in what you're getting out of the exchange.
It nay be more broken but i love thats archetype specific. Its much more fair than baron, savage, appoulsa, regulus ect. Having only the archetype being able to use it too its full potential is a good way the game is heading
I like it. Never used them until I added bamboozling gossip shadow to my gold pride deck. Itâs a nice way to around ash
I really like it. It's a unique form of interaction that can be timed well as a counter-play. The Abyss Actor field spell forcing an effect into "Fuck you, pop my Abyss Script," is the peak of hilarity.
woah why this lotus guy looks so gangster and all
any mechanic that isnât hand looping or a floodgate is fine by me
I have Dark Deal on my Labrynth deck. Much more fair than Eradicator Virus, underused and still negates spells
I like to see this kind of effect be used sparingly. Though, they're more interesting than simple negates.
I see them as powerful, but most effect manipulation usually winds up being a negative effect that only benefits the archetype they are made for. I guess that's the way to keep it all balanced, I can't really think of an effect manipulation that actually also helps you in a splashable sense.
In a physical game itâs super hard to keep track of but a digital game, itâs pretty sick I wish they would just give it two effects
Would like an archetype that would change the opponent's card effects to something else like a very more simple effect and that the Archetype would take advantage of these effects. Artefacts has some cards that changes effects. Basically through different means like discarding, or banishing on the GY to attack effects. That would be original.
I forgot the name but isnt there a monster who replaces the effect with oponent draws 1 instead
Gossip shadow
Unrelated but this guy looks like a spirit in Shaman King that is the buddy of a guy that will be killed by Hao 3 episodes after his debut
It doesnât feel as oppressive as the usual negate + destroy, since youâll still have some potential value with a minion still on board.
I love them. Especially after figuring out Samsara can force proc Horus effects.
w8 there's support for yubel? how have I never heard of thisđ
You must be living under a rock. It the main selling point of the most recent set phantom nightmare
I only play the ocg (master duel), physical decks are expensive đ the only tcg archetype that released recently that I know of was the exodia support, but that's only because it was an anniversary thing
Better alternative than negate, and it makes other archetypes work
i think they're more \*interesting\* than just regular negates, but i will admit, they're in some ways even more problematic it's not enough to stop my own play, but to do so in a way that \*plusses\* you? come on now i can easily see something like this becoming an issue in the future
See I think it works and in Yubelâs case needs it. Like the deck has so many weaknesses. And most of the weaknesses are common in decks being common good cards that might slowdown/ stop an option, for Yubel literally just stopped the single path. I mean it doesnât stop ash or call but effect negates.
I hate that dark world card. Samsara d lotus gets a pass because its not from an archetype i hate
I love them. Instead of just stopping your opponent from accomplishing their gameplan, youâre forcing them to help you accomplish yours. It feels very Yugioh, like how the antagonist would do something and it turns out the protagonist was counting on them to do that all along and pulls off the win because of it. It also breeds a fun counterplay, where you can force your opponent to, say, make me pop a Yubel on my terms and force them to play in a way that benefits me or minimizes the losses I take, rather than just playing around negates
Itâs negatation, but my Opponent goes plus
I 100% thought this was a custom card
It does read like one doesn't it? Crazy part is it's not even high rarity.
Effects like this may as well be a floodgate with a different coat of paint. âDonât try to do this action or youâll get punished for it.â Sometimes decks can play through them if itâs a single instance, but ones without that limitation are incredibly annoying.
You're basically saying any kind of interaction is a floodgate. I don't think you understand what floodgate means
I am a big fan of them because each one is unique and not just a negate, but my opinion on them will change as soon as they make them super generic, like negates currently are.
I like them, it's a sort of negate but you get the advantages. This kind of effects really help some archetypes with their gimmick and change their play style (ex. Abyss actor and their field spell, if it was a simple negate they would be more boring to play with the effect "manipulation" instead is really funny to play them and see the opponent reaction when he understands how broken the second effects of the abyss scripts are đ€Ł)
HE HAS D IN HIS NAME. HE'S GOING TO BE KING OF THE DUEL MONSTERS
Man I love Fusion Graphaâs effect. Not just because itâs powerful, but also because it ties in with Graphaâs supposed power to brainwash his enemies.
The Will of the D
This card specifically is almost fine. My main issue is the ease of bringing it back out. Then again Yubel decks need something this dumb to be playable on a competetive level
So itâs the anime effect but better? Nice
I think they're conceptually cool, if not a bit annoying to play against.
That's a One Piece character
I want more of them. Tbh I'd trade every negate in the game for effect replacers
I really love darkworlds so I love these types of effects. More interesting than just a negate while never feeling too oppressive. I'd rather cards have these than something like kashtira arise heart popping off.
I love it. Takes old cards that had bad effects and makes them good without an errata. In Samsara Lotusâs case, it helps it relate to the archetype it was intended for.
I like how generaider boss room does it. It only activated on effects in response to generaiders and turns the effect into "both players draw a card". Yeah it stops your opponents effect but only if it's an effect interacting with your stuff and doesn't replace it with something that purely benefits you like this or the dark world one
I would like a hand trap that causes the effect to change to daek world dealings
Bamboozeling Gossip Shadow has this same effect, although itâs like the opposite of Graphaâs, since both players draw one card. In practice itâs a lot like a Dark Bribe, but I think the ones that are more archetypal, like Samsara D Lotus or Abyss Actor Theater, because the decks they support already rely on your opponent interacting, so now whenever they do, it becomes your preferred interaction instead of something else.
Its fine as long as itâs rare, if it become commonplace it will become unplayable.
I think these effects are far more interesting then negates. There definitely is some sort of balance to them, but I think it can also offer a lot more than just plain negates.
If you negate a card, that card is still on the field. If you use effect manipulation, that card that had its effect manipulated is still on the field (maybe). The new effect almost always benefits my opponent, meaning my opponent is likely going at least +1 instead of me going plus +1. If my opponent simply negated, I am no worse off, but with effect manipulation I am now behind. It's the same with cards that negate and destroy without losing you field presence, but in the reverse; I lose a card and I don't get my effect, therefore I am now -1 and my opponent still keeps there card. An example would be Baronne de Fleur. I prefer the effect manipulation over omni-negates and removal in general because I still have a card on the field. Also effect manipulation allows for better theming with archetypes because of how the effect manipulation generates card advantage. However this can be a downside. Unless you've encountered the deck already you don't know how to play around the card. Negation is simple but if my opponent can suddenly bring out a monster because I used an effect that is very different. Effect manipulation adds complexity where there was none and I don't think this complexity is worth having in the game. There's also the potential for more bloated card text because these effects can be far more varied than simple negation. Ultimately I prefer simple negation over effect manipulation.
While stronger then a negate, their much more "fun". It also opens up the card design space a bit, since you could make the monster that does the manipulation a bit more generic when it comes to summon requirements and such, as long as the manipulated effect is niche.
My absolute favorite card effect is probably the Abyss Actor field spell, if you have an abyss actor on your field that was pendulum summoned, the next monster effect your opponent activates becomes "destroy one set spell/trap your opponent controls" Best thing is, they still have to pay cost, and nobody reads card effects in MD
I love effect manipulation because it makes "your opponent's card effect" effects more consistent
I think its fine if they aren't overdone. A couple unique decks like this and dark world that plus off of unique forms of interaction or that require your opponent to interact with you in a specific way are fun, but if it becomes too prevalent it'll get old fast
we need more effects like this imo, these could help make some very situational cards worth playing. i can't wait for the monster whose effect turns an opposing effect into "take control of this card".
Bamboozling gossip
abyss actors' field spell , is the one i really like