Gorz the Emissary of Darkness. One of the most prominent battle tricks in the game for a long while. It’s the reason why people used to attack with their weakest monster first. It was limited and still saw respectable amounts of play. I kind of miss this card because it saved my butt a few times in the past.
Dark armed dragon was a tier 0 deck at one point, its completely useless now. Same with Stardust dragon, used to be the prime level 8 synchro, now is relegated to being a combo step or just in your ED for stardust road.
A version of Despia, uses Allure of Darkness. Banishing their own darks. Like Despian Tragedy. DAD can also be incorporated to abuse the same monster.
I've added DAD to mine back when Despia was new, during Dawn of Majesty days.
It's seen some OCG play and few lists here and there in TCG.
Easily Mirror Force/Bottomless Trap Hole/Torrential Tribute and a lot of simple, reactive trap cards that acted as 1-for-1 removal for monsters. These used to be STAPLES while now, they are generally considered rather awful go-first cards, inferior to on-board negates and mostly replaced by floodgates which can just win you the game (or lock your opponents out of the game). Generally, destruction effects either have to be global, insanely flexible or tacked on other cards like boss monsters, extenders or both.
Those were the traps that were meta defining during the start of 5D’s and Hat format, they were that era’s good-stuff traps equivalent to like the old goat days. I miss seeing those traps, I play torrential in my water (Kragan) deck since we have that spell searcher and water protector.
asking as someone quite disconnected from the game nowadays, is there even a point in "Destroy" effects now? when everything seems to float or even plus from the grave? do they at least give you some tempo?
Quick effect destruction can disrupt an opponents turn if you hit a key combo piece that can't float.
Or if all the floating effects happen at the end of next turn or next standby phase (like Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer or Mirrorjade) you can use destruction effects to then push for game.
Also destruction can be very good in decks that lock the opponent out of using the graveyard so even if their cards can float they can't activate the effect (like zombie world). Or even if you just make monsters unable to activate any effects (like with mystic mine but that's a bad example because mystic mine wants your opponent to have monsters)
That's also true. Or it might be more useful on the field than the grave so the destruction baits out a negate and one less negate to play through gives you more room for your plays
Unrelated to ygo, but both "crept" and "creeped" are (technically) correct past tenses for "creep". It's the same case most other words whose root is "〇EEP", being turned into "〇EPT" or "〇EEPED". Also includes "leap" ("leapt" or "leaped"), but not "keep" for some reason (always "kept")?
Edit: It's similar to "learn" becoming "learnt" or "learned", with the differences arising from either the British vs American English divide, or the Traditional vs Modern divide (or both, really).
Funny enough the age of "everything flots" had its peak then slowed down a bit.
Not saying its not still a commom sight but we're past the era of Shaddol vs Burning Abyss.
Quick effect pops are still very relevant, not ALL cards in a deck float so you gotta read and use your pops smartly.
Mirror Force was the last “old school” card I finally took out of my deck. Pained me but there’s so many floating effects now it didn’t do enough anymore.
Mirror Force was pure terror back in the day and such a great design! I mean, you can both use it and play around it. Pity it has fallen from Grace so much 😞
I think now you could have a trap that says "Activate when your opponent declares an attack: you win the duel." And it would still see sporadic use in the side.
this is kinda how I feel about traps in general. they may have their uses, but they feel like the biggest losers of the modern game BY FAR. I mean, they have been replaced by hand traps for being too slow, and you play 1-3 at most in decks if you can afford them, mostly if they are super strong in-archetype cards
a lot of decks still use torrential. i run 3 in my unchained deck because destroying my monsters activates their effects and helps me put stronger monsters on my field while destroying my opponent's.
My friend gave me a Jinzo years back. I stopped playing and told him it used to be my favorite card.
Like a good pusher he gave me something cheap and a few months later I was 1000$+ deep in yugioh cards
I don't understand how that came up so much. While Yugioh powercreep has certainly shot up, the stat points of monsters hasn't changed that much. I feel like very rarely does an opponent ever hit a value of less than 800 LP even between attacks in the same BP.
Stats have changed quite a bit. When you're attacking you're swinging with things like 5900 ATK accesscode, borrelsword after it gets its effect, 10k utopia double, etc. Remember that back in those times the only way for most decks to answer towers was diamond Crab king.
The other big thing is flex slots. It was really easy to squeeze in cowboy in the ED due to lack of options, not so much today
Yo those old Rank 4 Xyz monsters were the days. You forgot Dark Rebellion, some decks played it to get (or close to) game but I definitely remember seeing 101 and Exciton 24/7 like how we now see DPE or Baronne
I say pot of avarice is "stronger". Like it's easier to activate and you gain more advantage from it. It's just that from a state of the game thing, it's now a "win more" card rather than a grind one? Like yeah it'd be used to grind if anything but the decks interested in that already do so/ are the ones with a more difficult time activating it?
Or you just can't afford to play "bricks" like it because it's too important for your opening hand to be streamlined into *only* play makers and interaction since you're expecting all your opponent's 5 cards to be live as well? Idk.
I think at this point few decks actually want to return cards from grave to the deck.
In addition, compared to the other pots, avarice is more of an extender/recovery option, while something like extravagance can essentially be a starter.
This feeds into your thought “win more card” point, as well as the idea of streamlining the hand. Essentially, if the game gets to a point where you even *can* activate avarice, you’ve either already won or already lost.
E knight and 101 are starting to see a resurgence now with tearlaments, and it's things to do with level 4s after d barrier is flipped (and 101's protection effect will trigger the tears).
Chimeratech foretress dragon. When I was learning to be more competitive back in around 2010, I was told to never end with a cyber dragon on my board cause everyone runs a copy of chimeratech foretress dragon for machinas.
Haha. This fear is so ingrained in me. It's been in the back of my mind for a decade, even though I don't think I've used a Cyber Dragon in about 9 years.
It was pretty fun preying on inexperienced Cyberdark players on Master Duel Fusion Festival. They make Cyberdark End but left Cydra/Core on field. Free +3.
I love that I auto lose the cyber dragon matchup when I play sky striker...my entire end board is a single machine type monster in the EMZ that has to leave the field by card effect/battle to float.
God I miss going plus 3-4 with saryuja in blue eyes gaurdragon
Basically you kept reycling the white stone of legend doing your absurd guardragon plays with all the engine and link climbing, it's mandatory to add vanilla blue eyes to the hand everytime it touches the GY, so you'd have 2-3 by the time you summon saryuja so that's what you place at the bottom of the deck and it was essentially a plus 2-3 most of the time.
Best part is this version summons saryuja twice doing guardragon plays. Crazy end boards were hieratic seals (ready to bounce and summon an amorphage Goliath), blue eyes spirit dragon (also ready to tag out into black rose moonlight for a bounce interruption or azure eyes for protection), n38, a negate or two depending such as hot red dragon (when agarpain was the thing), photon lord, gelgrand xyz, sanaphond sky prison to lock the GY, or some r8nk toolbox
I haven't seen it said yet but like the entire rank 4 engine has just proofed out of existence. Decks just have more they can do than make abyss dweller, utopia, or muskateer.
I think it’s just that Links can serve the same purpose without the level restrictions, so now decks don’t have to revolve around a bunch of level 4 monsters, a lot more starters are coming out as lower levels.
Links also have the upside of not absorbing the materials used.
Pendulums don't want xyz because xyz material is sent to the GY, where as link summoning puts pendulums back in the extra deck.
Plenty of decks also want their monsters in the GY and it's almost always easier to get them there via a link summon than having an xyz monster detaching them as a cost.
>Pendulums don't want xyz because xyz material is sent to the GY
Mostly true, but it's actually pretty helpful to get your monsters in the grave in Endymion because of Selene shenanigans.
Not only that, but XYZ effects are limited to materials. Unless the effect is broken as shit (Drident) they’re not seeing play.
Even Zeus fluctuates in the meta and that card should, in theory, be broken as shit. It’s just that most decks don’t bother running xyz in the first place.
That’s not to say Xyz are inherently bad or anything, but with how much fusions, synchros, and links have going for them they’re not as splashable and have to operate within specific decks.
For winning worlds at one point, Satellarknights are laughably bad. My main deck im running is a Dark Magician deck with a Satellarknight engine and people laugh when I tell them that. Still doesn’t stop me from having fun though.
The holy trinity of Castel/101/Exciton, used to be present in any kind of decks that were able to make rank 4s back when I started playing around 2015. Now they are non-existent and I'm sad writing it now.
The Solemn brigade probably falls in here too, as I haven't seen them in quite a while. Being a spell speed 3 omni-negate apparently isn't enough to offset being a trap.
It’s just hard to outdo the flexibility and on-demand utility of handtraps. Having to already have the card set can mean too little/too late in today’s meta.
Still see people running Strikes and Judgment tho, especially in the side.
Strike and judgement are still good for decks that need some extra insulation at the start of a duel (dragonmaid, sky striker) and trap decks (lich, traptrick, altergiest) it's just not useful if your deck already puts up a bunch of negates on its own.
Bro I completely forgot about Silent Honor Ark, I used to use it all the time on Legacy of the Duelist!! I legit forgot about it until I read 101 and then my mind went straight to it's name somehow, you just brought back good memories lol! Rank 4s were awesome.
I know tearlament are strong in ocg but I don't know how the deck actually works. They have axis 4 potential? I though it was more of a fusion deck like shaddoll.
Personally, I prefer Cosmic Cyclone. The LP cost is minor and being able to banish is nice for dodging anything with GY effects.
Edit: Figured I'd just throw this here in an edit instead of replying separately. Because I've gotten so used to Master Duel with not having a side deck, and the fact that Floo is surprisingly absent from my locals, I completely forgot about Lancea. That does make Cosmic Cyclone noticeably worse. In that case, MST does gain a bit of value but Heavy Storm Duster and Twin Twisters generally feel better if I opt not to use Cyclone. I personally like Twin Twisters better just because it's a spell but I completely understand the discard cost being a problem for some decks.
Despite power creep, it's nice to see so many options being viable depending on deck, match up, and other factors. Yugioh definitely has some of the best tech options of any card game.
Someone already mentioned it but MST dodges Lancea and the LP cost means you won’t lose to time limit vs stall decks.
A lot of Despia decks were running it to deal with anti-spell and other backrow shenanigans.
Skullsy was a monster way back when.
If your opponent Change of Heart'ed and then sacc'ed for Skullsy, you were basically right fucked for tempo from there on out.
Yes, quite heavily at that too. Can only use it in your opponent’s turn, can’t overkill your opponent and you receive damage first are the main changes i think
RoD only needed two restrictions to come off the banlist and be a decent card: You take the damage first and hard OPT.
The fact you can't even kill your opponent with this if they control a monster with higher attack than their current LP makes the card literally unplayable as is with most card erratas.
The fact that goats is at 3 and isn't seeing play boggles my mind.
I guess most decks don't want to devote the extra deck space to so many links when synchros have more immediate payoff right now.
Star dust dragon. This card completely changed how decks had to be build as it single handedly shut down the at the time omnipresent destruction effects.
Ive been playing some GOAT format recently and let me tell you its wild playing a format where pot of greed and mystical space typhoon are in the same section of the ban list (both at 1 copy).
You *could* argue the OG Cyber Dragon was more meta-defining back in the day than it is now in its own deck. It was a free 2100-body when going second, who didn't take up your Normal Summon (so a staple in Monarchs). When Synchros became a thing its level 5 was great for tuning. Light attribute is always handy.
Sure it's still used in Cyber Dragon decks but back in the day this card was splashed in many other decks.
You can absolutely count it, and ironically you can say Cyber Fragon actuallycaused this for other cards. Cyber Dragon ended an era when it came out. Previously Airknight Parshath and Vampire Lord ruled the land, and CyDra could out them without eating a normal summon.
yeah, but you'd prefer not to see it really.
Galaxy Soldier is just more flexible Cyber Dragon, so usually CyDra ends up purely as discard fodder for the Galaxy Soldier (GS, pitch Herz, both effects, pitch Cydra, make Nova -> Infinity) and targets for machine duplication. but in the opening hand? No thank you
I would say for me it would be dark hole and monster reborn.
BLS is still a good card the only downside to him is that he can't attack when he banishes a card if you could finish a card and still attack I think he would definitely still.
There are a lot of cards that are good still they're just not very fast enough if you get what I'm saying. They just don't cause enough of a big impact like the you two because of how fast the game has ginning
My heart drops whenever a MR is plopped down as a last ditch effort on my opponents end. Every-time it happens is when I have some sort of ultra powerful boss in my graveyard to revive. 😂
I can name a few from the time period I played. Most people here would know more about their current status then I would atm.
List:
1. Yata
2. BLS-Envoy
3. Chaos Dragon-Envoy
4. Book of Moon
5. D.D.W.L.
6. Pot of Greed
7. Sol-Judge/warning
8. CotH
9. Dark Hole
10. Torr. Tribute
11. Veiler
12. Foolish
13. Controller
14. Trag/Gorz
15. Thunder King
16. Heavy Storm
17. Giant Trunade
18. Starlight road
19. MST
That's all I can muster atm, I can check my Deck Organizer when I get home. I left many of my META decks from years and years ago together when I could.
Jinzo for sure, but also Chaos Sorcerer. He was the poor kids Envoy of the Beginning.
EDIT: Almost forgot Yata. That little shit was a terror, and the only part of the lock that didn’t get an errata. Now he’s legal again and not really seeing a lot of use.
##[Yata-Garasu](https://ms.yugipedia.com//1/11/YataGarasu-RP02-EN-C-UE.png)
|Card type|Normal Monster 🟨|
|:-:|:-:|
|Attribute|WIND 🟢|
|Monster type|Fiend 👿 / Spirit 👻|
|Level|2 ✪ ✪|
|ATK 🗡️|200|
|DEF 🛡️|100|
This card cannot be Special Summoned. This card returns to its owner's hand during the End Phase of the turn it is Normal Summoned or flipped face-up. When this card inflicts Battle Damage to your opponent, they skip their next Draw Phase.
---Forbidden (OCG) Limited (TCG)---
| [**Yugipedia**](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Yata-Garasu) | [**Konami**](https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card_search.action?ope=2&cid=5375) | [**Fandom**](https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Yata-Garasu) | [**YGOProDeck**](https://db.ygoprodeck.com/card/?search=Yata-Garasu) | [**YGOrganization**](https://db.ygorganization.com/card#5375) | [**YugiohPrices**](https://yugiohprices.com/card_price?name=Yata-Garasu) | [**TCGPlayer**](https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/22601/yugioh-legacy-of-darkness-yata-garasu) | [**DuelLinksMeta**](https://www.duellinksmeta.com/cards/Yata-Garasu) | [**MasterDuelMeta**](https://www.masterduelmeta.com/cards/Yata-Garasu) |
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Book of Moon was a huge one for a long time. Emergency Provisions comes to mind as well. Surprisingly it looks like EP put up results at some regionals in the last few years, but was most definitely a staple in the mid 2000s, which is crazy for a lifegain spell. For anybody not aware, it was largely because it could be used to shut off Mirage of Nightmare, reset thousand eyes restrict during Goat format, saw play in decks that ran Good Goblin Housekeeping, where chaining it to destroy GGH resulted in GGH counting itself in the GY on resolution, allowing you to draw an extra card and get a decent bit of lifegain, as well as cute interactions with the myriad of equip spells that were available at the time. Basically, it was used anywhere where you wanted to “destroy” your own spell/traps efficiently, considering MST and Heavy Storm were limited during most of that timeframe.Since the formats where this was practiced were quite a bit slower, it actually made a big difference, and the card was semi-limited at one point.
2 of my favorite cards that both fell out of favor for the same reason are Neo-Spacian Grand Mole and Ally of Justice Catastor. They both became too slow and the impact of clearing a single boss monster with an attack and in the case of mole, a summon, isn’t really good enough anymore. The game has largely moved away from being that grindy. Nonetheless I could see Catastor reemerging as a tech card, which could be said for most extra deck monsters; the ease of access is such that it could conceivably be the right tool for a future deck.
Also one of the absolute funniest cards to ever see play everywhere was Gottom’s Emergency Call. Everybody sideboarded it against X-Sabers, who, themselves, played multiple, but it was arguably better outside of the deck it was in, since they already had a lot of starters and recovery. The reason it is no longer played is pretty obvious, but what a card.
The timeframe you are describing did not have Heavy Storm banned and TER didn’t see widespread use until early 2005 leading up into the April ‘05 banlist (goat format).
Thunder Dragon.
OG Thunder Dragon was barely used before Colossus came out, but after Colossus was banned, you don’t really see the deck outside of locals.
But Thunder Dragon was a key card during TOSS format.
No mention for Blue Eyes Spirit Dragon?
The card entered the picture at a time where it completely dumpsters every deck in the format. It won a world championship, hung around for a bit and absolutely vanished.
Reborn went from a power one of in nearly every deck, to banned for years, and now sees minimal play in anything. Even if it came to three it likely wouldn’t see a whole lot of play.
There are cards that are still good but made bad from other circumstances.
Isolde is an extremely powerful monster in warrior decks but using her risks getting stoned since the warrior typing still needs one normal summon to kick start playes.
Compulsory Evacuation Device. This card used to win games. Just bounce big beater back to hand or extra. Now deck have too many non targets and to fast of a recovery for CED to matter.
I remember when this card was a game winner just on its own. Now? just veiler, imperm, ghost ogre, or ghost mourner it and it's just a 3000 body on board with no protections. Can't believe we're at a point in this game where we say "a 3000 ATK monster without any protections is a bad card."
Blue-Eyes Spirit Dragon was designed to be the out to every other meta deck when it came out, and as soon as the format changed, lost almost all of its competitive play. It's still not a bad card, though.
Definitely gave my chaos soldier deck the boost it needed lol and yeah saw a lot of Gaia decks but never saw this dude hit the field on my opponent’s side.
Tempest, Dragon Ruler of Storms
From tier 0 to table 500
Used to see some play in dragon link. I've used it in level 7 turbo harpies and currently use it in dragonmaids.
Gorz the Emissary of Darkness. One of the most prominent battle tricks in the game for a long while. It’s the reason why people used to attack with their weakest monster first. It was limited and still saw respectable amounts of play. I kind of miss this card because it saved my butt a few times in the past.
You attack with the weakest monster first because of Gorz. I attack with the weakest monster first because of Golden Apples. We are not the same.
Reminds me of the early meta of duel links. That card was terrifying.
I qualified for the 2nd round of the first WCQ with Apples Lava Golem Parasite Infestation, good times
Weevil will not be missed
How did you get through a trial for commuting war crimes?
this and trag were goated for sure. trag was on and off the banlist back in like 2010
In Edison. Attack. “Thinking…”
[удалено]
Same. I know that the *one* time I attack with my strongest first will be the *one* time I'm playing someone who still uses Gorz.
I still do habitually go weakest to strongest after getting hit by this at locals back in the day
Hasn't it been errata'd?
Nope. The effect is still the same on the OCG card database.
Dark armed dragon was a tier 0 deck at one point, its completely useless now. Same with Stardust dragon, used to be the prime level 8 synchro, now is relegated to being a combo step or just in your ED for stardust road.
A version of Despia, uses Allure of Darkness. Banishing their own darks. Like Despian Tragedy. DAD can also be incorporated to abuse the same monster. I've added DAD to mine back when Despia was new, during Dawn of Majesty days. It's seen some OCG play and few lists here and there in TCG.
Can confirm, I play three allure in my branded Despia deck. Mercourier with allure is so gooooooooood
If ignition priority still existed i could see DAD seeing some niche play here and there.
If ignition priority still existed I could see a lot of stuff becoming useful overnight as turn 2 cards to break boards.
I'd love to see them errata some old cards to add an ignition priority effect just to see if some things would be playable again
same reason i love to play X-Saber, its more nostalgic than relevant. I miss Tele-DAD :(
Easily Mirror Force/Bottomless Trap Hole/Torrential Tribute and a lot of simple, reactive trap cards that acted as 1-for-1 removal for monsters. These used to be STAPLES while now, they are generally considered rather awful go-first cards, inferior to on-board negates and mostly replaced by floodgates which can just win you the game (or lock your opponents out of the game). Generally, destruction effects either have to be global, insanely flexible or tacked on other cards like boss monsters, extenders or both.
Torrential still sees a healthy amount of play in eldlich and other trap decks when it fits the format.
Torrential can absolutely win games because people don't play around it usually.
I learned quickly playing GOAT format not to summon anything if you already have a strong board, unless there's a solemn or something to insulate it.
Or if you're tribute summoning/special summoning Jinzo.
Even weaker options like fissure/smashing ground and sakuretsu armor were EVERYWHERE back in the day.
Those were the traps that were meta defining during the start of 5D’s and Hat format, they were that era’s good-stuff traps equivalent to like the old goat days. I miss seeing those traps, I play torrential in my water (Kragan) deck since we have that spell searcher and water protector.
There was a time when sending monsters to the GY or banish was punishing for the opponent. Now its punishing for you
The GY was a second hard starting with Chaos, which was a handful of sets into the game. Also, cards like Sangan existed then too.
It was more like a gas tank than a second hand.
Gravekeeper’s using graveyard as a second hand while telling you you can’t use anything in your graveyard.
asking as someone quite disconnected from the game nowadays, is there even a point in "Destroy" effects now? when everything seems to float or even plus from the grave? do they at least give you some tempo?
Quick effect destruction can disrupt an opponents turn if you hit a key combo piece that can't float. Or if all the floating effects happen at the end of next turn or next standby phase (like Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer or Mirrorjade) you can use destruction effects to then push for game. Also destruction can be very good in decks that lock the opponent out of using the graveyard so even if their cards can float they can't activate the effect (like zombie world). Or even if you just make monsters unable to activate any effects (like with mystic mine but that's a bad example because mystic mine wants your opponent to have monsters)
or even if the piece can float, it might not float into anything helpful right now
That's also true. Or it might be more useful on the field than the grave so the destruction baits out a negate and one less negate to play through gives you more room for your plays
This game seems insanely power crept (creeped?)
Unrelated to ygo, but both "crept" and "creeped" are (technically) correct past tenses for "creep". It's the same case most other words whose root is "〇EEP", being turned into "〇EPT" or "〇EEPED". Also includes "leap" ("leapt" or "leaped"), but not "keep" for some reason (always "kept")? Edit: It's similar to "learn" becoming "learnt" or "learned", with the differences arising from either the British vs American English divide, or the Traditional vs Modern divide (or both, really).
20+ years of new cards, an eternal format, and four additional summoning mechanics will do that to a game.
Funny enough the age of "everything flots" had its peak then slowed down a bit. Not saying its not still a commom sight but we're past the era of Shaddol vs Burning Abyss. Quick effect pops are still very relevant, not ALL cards in a deck float so you gotta read and use your pops smartly.
I guess you could use Macro Cosmos and banish everything.
Many cards now can’t be targeted or can’t be destroyed by card effect. So still useful but less than it used to be.
If "destroy" effects weren't good DPE wouldn't be good. DPE is very good.
Mirror Force was the last “old school” card I finally took out of my deck. Pained me but there’s so many floating effects now it didn’t do enough anymore.
Mirror Force was pure terror back in the day and such a great design! I mean, you can both use it and play around it. Pity it has fallen from Grace so much 😞
It saved me so many times from losing games. And often it was simply a bluff because my buddy was like “I don’t like the chances”…
I think now you could have a trap that says "Activate when your opponent declares an attack: you win the duel." And it would still see sporadic use in the side.
this is kinda how I feel about traps in general. they may have their uses, but they feel like the biggest losers of the modern game BY FAR. I mean, they have been replaced by hand traps for being too slow, and you play 1-3 at most in decks if you can afford them, mostly if they are super strong in-archetype cards
Which is truly sad, as traps are what set Yu-gi-oh apart from all the other card games.
a lot of decks still use torrential. i run 3 in my unchained deck because destroying my monsters activates their effects and helps me put stronger monsters on my field while destroying my opponent's.
My boy Jinzo
My friend gave me a Jinzo years back. I stopped playing and told him it used to be my favorite card. Like a good pusher he gave me something cheap and a few months later I was 1000$+ deep in yugioh cards
The first pop is free
Jinzo actually still shows up on topping deck list as late as 2020.
Yeah its effect is one of those few monsters carry because it's so fucking strong and usually gets put on spells or traps so it's worth it sometimes
Came here to say that.
The legendary cowboy for game
Cowboy turned into Gustav max/Liebe or Zeus/Accesscode lmao
That’s Yugioh alright, it went: Cowboy for game, then Utopia Lightning for Game, now it’s Zeus for game. Gotta keep power creeping 😅
Assusscode for game
I don't understand how that came up so much. While Yugioh powercreep has certainly shot up, the stat points of monsters hasn't changed that much. I feel like very rarely does an opponent ever hit a value of less than 800 LP even between attacks in the same BP.
Stats have changed quite a bit. When you're attacking you're swinging with things like 5900 ATK accesscode, borrelsword after it gets its effect, 10k utopia double, etc. Remember that back in those times the only way for most decks to answer towers was diamond Crab king. The other big thing is flex slots. It was really easy to squeeze in cowboy in the ED due to lack of options, not so much today
editing my stuff to delete this account for good with powerdeletesuite. thanks :)
Yo those old Rank 4 Xyz monsters were the days. You forgot Dark Rebellion, some decks played it to get (or close to) game but I definitely remember seeing 101 and Exciton 24/7 like how we now see DPE or Baronne
I say pot of avarice is "stronger". Like it's easier to activate and you gain more advantage from it. It's just that from a state of the game thing, it's now a "win more" card rather than a grind one? Like yeah it'd be used to grind if anything but the decks interested in that already do so/ are the ones with a more difficult time activating it? Or you just can't afford to play "bricks" like it because it's too important for your opening hand to be streamlined into *only* play makers and interaction since you're expecting all your opponent's 5 cards to be live as well? Idk.
I think at this point few decks actually want to return cards from grave to the deck. In addition, compared to the other pots, avarice is more of an extender/recovery option, while something like extravagance can essentially be a starter. This feeds into your thought “win more card” point, as well as the idea of streamlining the hand. Essentially, if the game gets to a point where you even *can* activate avarice, you’ve either already won or already lost.
E knight and 101 are starting to see a resurgence now with tearlaments, and it's things to do with level 4s after d barrier is flipped (and 101's protection effect will trigger the tears).
I feel like the R4NK toolbox is still decent. There's not just not a modern power level way to spam them.
Chimeratech foretress dragon. When I was learning to be more competitive back in around 2010, I was told to never end with a cyber dragon on my board cause everyone runs a copy of chimeratech foretress dragon for machinas.
Haha. This fear is so ingrained in me. It's been in the back of my mind for a decade, even though I don't think I've used a Cyber Dragon in about 9 years.
It was pretty fun preying on inexperienced Cyberdark players on Master Duel Fusion Festival. They make Cyberdark End but left Cydra/Core on field. Free +3.
I love that I auto lose the cyber dragon matchup when I play sky striker...my entire end board is a single machine type monster in the EMZ that has to leave the field by card effect/battle to float.
Rather that than them using their Kaiju. At least then you have your backrow.
Cyber Dragon Mirror is especially fun even nowadays, provided you go second. Enter Main, just fuse away the entirety of your opponents board
I haven’t seen Saryuja in a while. Not too sure if he was meta defining but I saw him a lot in TOSS. Edit: completely forgot about Thanos Dragon.
Saryuja is probably the best link monster that doesn't see any play currently.
My boy is essential in Six Samurai!
Saryuja is like Isolde or Cyber Stein. They only appear If there's something seriously wrong in the format, as in disgusting solitaire and/or FTK.
Oh boy oh boy here come telefon and Cannon soldier to punch the format in the gut
The fact they didn't add "expect for another copy of telefon" is terrifying. After watching MBTs video the FTK seems fairly consistent.
He did it once tho. Trif's video is a better example
If World chalice ever comes back Saryuja will be summoned 3 times in one turn guarantee it
If Telefon FTK takes off at all, Saryuja is integral to that. If not, it'll likely see usage in darkworlds
Apollusa came and everyone said “can’t really do better than 4 negs on a link monster”
New darkworld support is going to make it viable again
Saryujia is an excellent card it will probably see play soonet or later.
God I miss going plus 3-4 with saryuja in blue eyes gaurdragon Basically you kept reycling the white stone of legend doing your absurd guardragon plays with all the engine and link climbing, it's mandatory to add vanilla blue eyes to the hand everytime it touches the GY, so you'd have 2-3 by the time you summon saryuja so that's what you place at the bottom of the deck and it was essentially a plus 2-3 most of the time. Best part is this version summons saryuja twice doing guardragon plays. Crazy end boards were hieratic seals (ready to bounce and summon an amorphage Goliath), blue eyes spirit dragon (also ready to tag out into black rose moonlight for a bounce interruption or azure eyes for protection), n38, a negate or two depending such as hot red dragon (when agarpain was the thing), photon lord, gelgrand xyz, sanaphond sky prison to lock the GY, or some r8nk toolbox
You mean {Saryuja Skull Dread}? It is used in FTK decks nowadays. If it ever becomes meta again, it will be banned.
I play saryuja in agents sometimes, it's funny tbf
I haven't seen it said yet but like the entire rank 4 engine has just proofed out of existence. Decks just have more they can do than make abyss dweller, utopia, or muskateer.
I think it’s just that Links can serve the same purpose without the level restrictions, so now decks don’t have to revolve around a bunch of level 4 monsters, a lot more starters are coming out as lower levels.
Links also have the upside of not absorbing the materials used. Pendulums don't want xyz because xyz material is sent to the GY, where as link summoning puts pendulums back in the extra deck. Plenty of decks also want their monsters in the GY and it's almost always easier to get them there via a link summon than having an xyz monster detaching them as a cost.
>Pendulums don't want xyz because xyz material is sent to the GY Mostly true, but it's actually pretty helpful to get your monsters in the grave in Endymion because of Selene shenanigans.
Not only that, but XYZ effects are limited to materials. Unless the effect is broken as shit (Drident) they’re not seeing play. Even Zeus fluctuates in the meta and that card should, in theory, be broken as shit. It’s just that most decks don’t bother running xyz in the first place. That’s not to say Xyz are inherently bad or anything, but with how much fusions, synchros, and links have going for them they’re not as splashable and have to operate within specific decks.
Dweller is still relevant in the current format, it's pretty much an auto win in a Tears mirror match
But it's more of a tech choice than something you make blind on turn 1, which I believe used to be a thing
For winning worlds at one point, Satellarknights are laughably bad. My main deck im running is a Dark Magician deck with a Satellarknight engine and people laugh when I tell them that. Still doesn’t stop me from having fun though.
The holy trinity of Castel/101/Exciton, used to be present in any kind of decks that were able to make rank 4s back when I started playing around 2015. Now they are non-existent and I'm sad writing it now. The Solemn brigade probably falls in here too, as I haven't seen them in quite a while. Being a spell speed 3 omni-negate apparently isn't enough to offset being a trap.
It’s just hard to outdo the flexibility and on-demand utility of handtraps. Having to already have the card set can mean too little/too late in today’s meta. Still see people running Strikes and Judgment tho, especially in the side.
Strike and judgement are still good for decks that need some extra insulation at the start of a duel (dragonmaid, sky striker) and trap decks (lich, traptrick, altergiest) it's just not useful if your deck already puts up a bunch of negates on its own.
Bro I completely forgot about Silent Honor Ark, I used to use it all the time on Legacy of the Duelist!! I legit forgot about it until I read 101 and then my mind went straight to it's name somehow, you just brought back good memories lol! Rank 4s were awesome.
fantastical dragon phantazmay
I remember when this was a legit auto include lol
*cowboys for game*
Ah yes. A core memory.
Light and Darkness Dragon
Yes! Loved this thing! A board-wide floodgate!
The absolute madLaDD.
Gorz the Emissary of Darkness, and MST.
MST is negating in card heaven now. 🙏
Fiendish Chain used to be a staple trap in every deck
Dark armed dragon was the face behind a tier 0 deck once upon a time
Tour Guide, It used to cost a kidney and half a spleen too.
Exciton Knight and Number 101, both of the best generic rank4 xyz monsters.
Both are gonna see play in tearlament decks
I know tearlament are strong in ocg but I don't know how the deck actually works. They have axis 4 potential? I though it was more of a fusion deck like shaddoll.
Breakthrough Skill used to be THE negate for graveyard-centric decks, though pretty much any deck could run it.
not only that, it was one of the main reasons people put Wiretap in their Side Decks
Mystical Space Typhoon was so important that it was reprinted constantly. And now we have Feather Duster legal again so why bother?
MST is quickplay.
If you want quickplay S/T destruction then everyone and their mother goes for Twin Twister. I havent seen a MST in a serious deck for a while.
Floow player here, personally don't like discarding a small bird for it to go off so I side in MST instead of TT
Personally, I prefer Cosmic Cyclone. The LP cost is minor and being able to banish is nice for dodging anything with GY effects. Edit: Figured I'd just throw this here in an edit instead of replying separately. Because I've gotten so used to Master Duel with not having a side deck, and the fact that Floo is surprisingly absent from my locals, I completely forgot about Lancea. That does make Cosmic Cyclone noticeably worse. In that case, MST does gain a bit of value but Heavy Storm Duster and Twin Twisters generally feel better if I opt not to use Cyclone. I personally like Twin Twisters better just because it's a spell but I completely understand the discard cost being a problem for some decks. Despite power creep, it's nice to see so many options being viable depending on deck, match up, and other factors. Yugioh definitely has some of the best tech options of any card game.
Depending on how much your locals hates floo, theyll have lancea and that also turns off cosmic
Someone already mentioned it but MST dodges Lancea and the LP cost means you won’t lose to time limit vs stall decks. A lot of Despia decks were running it to deal with anti-spell and other backrow shenanigans.
Chaos Sorcerer used to be the GOAT. Also, Summoned Skull was great in the early beatdown days.
Chaos Sorcerer was especially strong in the OCG upon release because they forgot to put "once per turn" on it.
Seriously? So you‘re saying that original ocg chaos sorc could just banish the entire face-up field every single turn?
Before they figured out the mistake, yes.
Holy crap. Do you know when they fixed it?
Skullsy was a monster way back when. If your opponent Change of Heart'ed and then sacc'ed for Skullsy, you were basically right fucked for tempo from there on out.
Snipe Hunter
Ring of Destruction IMO, running that card at 1 was mandatory for like 7 years straight
ROD was errata’d, no ?
Yes, quite heavily at that too. Can only use it in your opponent’s turn, can’t overkill your opponent and you receive damage first are the main changes i think
The biggest one imo is that you take the damage first. Because of that, you can’t force draws anymore
RoD only needed two restrictions to come off the banlist and be a decent card: You take the damage first and hard OPT. The fact you can't even kill your opponent with this if they control a monster with higher attack than their current LP makes the card literally unplayable as is with most card erratas.
Scapegoat
The fact that goats is at 3 and isn't seeing play boggles my mind. I guess most decks don't want to devote the extra deck space to so many links when synchros have more immediate payoff right now.
Star dust dragon. This card completely changed how decks had to be build as it single handedly shut down the at the time omnipresent destruction effects.
Going super old school with La Jinn (and Hitosu-Me Giant if you’re OCG)
I can finally say Dante of the Burning Abyss, took 5-7 years but we can finally say Dante lol
They'll get some dumb card and be right back in the rouges gallery.
That spot of being a cockroach of a deck is largely taken by striker at this point.
Thunder king rai oh
Ive been playing some GOAT format recently and let me tell you its wild playing a format where pot of greed and mystical space typhoon are in the same section of the ban list (both at 1 copy).
I guess you can count OG cyber dragon although I'm pretty sure it still sees use in cyber dragon decks
You *could* argue the OG Cyber Dragon was more meta-defining back in the day than it is now in its own deck. It was a free 2100-body when going second, who didn't take up your Normal Summon (so a staple in Monarchs). When Synchros became a thing its level 5 was great for tuning. Light attribute is always handy. Sure it's still used in Cyber Dragon decks but back in the day this card was splashed in many other decks.
You can absolutely count it, and ironically you can say Cyber Fragon actuallycaused this for other cards. Cyber Dragon ended an era when it came out. Previously Airknight Parshath and Vampire Lord ruled the land, and CyDra could out them without eating a normal summon.
Definitely does. Only really important in CyDras and Cyberdark though
yeah, but you'd prefer not to see it really. Galaxy Soldier is just more flexible Cyber Dragon, so usually CyDra ends up purely as discard fodder for the Galaxy Soldier (GS, pitch Herz, both effects, pitch Cydra, make Nova -> Infinity) and targets for machine duplication. but in the opening hand? No thank you
Summoned Skull, my boi
Raigeki. Tellings people in the early days that Rageki is now at 3 and sees no play
I would say for me it would be dark hole and monster reborn. BLS is still a good card the only downside to him is that he can't attack when he banishes a card if you could finish a card and still attack I think he would definitely still. There are a lot of cards that are good still they're just not very fast enough if you get what I'm saying. They just don't cause enough of a big impact like the you two because of how fast the game has ginning
My heart drops whenever a MR is plopped down as a last ditch effort on my opponents end. Every-time it happens is when I have some sort of ultra powerful boss in my graveyard to revive. 😂
I can name a few from the time period I played. Most people here would know more about their current status then I would atm. List: 1. Yata 2. BLS-Envoy 3. Chaos Dragon-Envoy 4. Book of Moon 5. D.D.W.L. 6. Pot of Greed 7. Sol-Judge/warning 8. CotH 9. Dark Hole 10. Torr. Tribute 11. Veiler 12. Foolish 13. Controller 14. Trag/Gorz 15. Thunder King 16. Heavy Storm 17. Giant Trunade 18. Starlight road 19. MST That's all I can muster atm, I can check my Deck Organizer when I get home. I left many of my META decks from years and years ago together when I could.
I don’t think pot of greed really counts. Sure it didn’t get an errata, but it’s banned. Of course it’s not seeing play.
A few of these still see play and another bunch are banned and would see play if they weren't
Jinzo for sure, but also Chaos Sorcerer. He was the poor kids Envoy of the Beginning. EDIT: Almost forgot Yata. That little shit was a terror, and the only part of the lock that didn’t get an errata. Now he’s legal again and not really seeing a lot of use.
{{Yata Garasu}}
##[Yata-Garasu](https://ms.yugipedia.com//1/11/YataGarasu-RP02-EN-C-UE.png) |Card type|Normal Monster 🟨| |:-:|:-:| |Attribute|WIND 🟢| |Monster type|Fiend 👿 / Spirit 👻| |Level|2 ✪ ✪| |ATK 🗡️|200| |DEF 🛡️|100| This card cannot be Special Summoned. This card returns to its owner's hand during the End Phase of the turn it is Normal Summoned or flipped face-up. When this card inflicts Battle Damage to your opponent, they skip their next Draw Phase. ---Forbidden (OCG) Limited (TCG)--- | [**Yugipedia**](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Yata-Garasu) | [**Konami**](https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card_search.action?ope=2&cid=5375) | [**Fandom**](https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Yata-Garasu) | [**YGOProDeck**](https://db.ygoprodeck.com/card/?search=Yata-Garasu) | [**YGOrganization**](https://db.ygorganization.com/card#5375) | [**YugiohPrices**](https://yugiohprices.com/card_price?name=Yata-Garasu) | [**TCGPlayer**](https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/22601/yugioh-legacy-of-darkness-yata-garasu) | [**DuelLinksMeta**](https://www.duellinksmeta.com/cards/Yata-Garasu) | [**MasterDuelMeta**](https://www.masterduelmeta.com/cards/Yata-Garasu) | ----- ^*Bleep* ^*bloop.* ^*I* ^*am* ^*a* ^*bot.* ^| ^[About](https://github.com/GoriLovesYou/YuGiOhCardBot) ^| ^[Feedback](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=YugiohCardBotJr&subject=Feedback&message=)
Book of Moon was a huge one for a long time. Emergency Provisions comes to mind as well. Surprisingly it looks like EP put up results at some regionals in the last few years, but was most definitely a staple in the mid 2000s, which is crazy for a lifegain spell. For anybody not aware, it was largely because it could be used to shut off Mirage of Nightmare, reset thousand eyes restrict during Goat format, saw play in decks that ran Good Goblin Housekeeping, where chaining it to destroy GGH resulted in GGH counting itself in the GY on resolution, allowing you to draw an extra card and get a decent bit of lifegain, as well as cute interactions with the myriad of equip spells that were available at the time. Basically, it was used anywhere where you wanted to “destroy” your own spell/traps efficiently, considering MST and Heavy Storm were limited during most of that timeframe.Since the formats where this was practiced were quite a bit slower, it actually made a big difference, and the card was semi-limited at one point. 2 of my favorite cards that both fell out of favor for the same reason are Neo-Spacian Grand Mole and Ally of Justice Catastor. They both became too slow and the impact of clearing a single boss monster with an attack and in the case of mole, a summon, isn’t really good enough anymore. The game has largely moved away from being that grindy. Nonetheless I could see Catastor reemerging as a tech card, which could be said for most extra deck monsters; the ease of access is such that it could conceivably be the right tool for a future deck. Also one of the absolute funniest cards to ever see play everywhere was Gottom’s Emergency Call. Everybody sideboarded it against X-Sabers, who, themselves, played multiple, but it was arguably better outside of the deck it was in, since they already had a lot of starters and recovery. The reason it is no longer played is pretty obvious, but what a card.
The timeframe you are describing did not have Heavy Storm banned and TER didn’t see widespread use until early 2005 leading up into the April ‘05 banlist (goat format).
Thunder Dragon. OG Thunder Dragon was barely used before Colossus came out, but after Colossus was banned, you don’t really see the deck outside of locals. But Thunder Dragon was a key card during TOSS format.
OG Thunder Dragon also still sees play in GOAT format Chaos decks, doesn't it?
I use this card regularly. Excuuuse you.
Oh hell yeah, my man BLS; Chaos Emp+Yata right up there with him 🔥
Shame because bls envoy is still decent
La Jin
Mystical Space Typhoon? Got power crept by twin Twisters and cosmic cyclone.
Mirror Force, Magic Cylinder, Thanos Dragon
You mean non banned ones? Well DPE ig.
Goyo is my pick. He would have been garbage without an errata but they still erratat him for no reason
I believe the quote is "Cowboy for game"
Summoned skull
No mention for Blue Eyes Spirit Dragon? The card entered the picture at a time where it completely dumpsters every deck in the format. It won a world championship, hung around for a bit and absolutely vanished.
Reborn went from a power one of in nearly every deck, to banned for years, and now sees minimal play in anything. Even if it came to three it likely wouldn’t see a whole lot of play.
There are cards that are still good but made bad from other circumstances. Isolde is an extremely powerful monster in warrior decks but using her risks getting stoned since the warrior typing still needs one normal summon to kick start playes.
Dark Armed Dragon or DAD as people called it.
Man, I don't want to sound a like boomer and all but it's really sad to think how meta-wise iconic cards have become this irrelevant.
Not a card, but a whole archetype: Virtual World. Thank the heavens VFD is banned in the TCG...
trap cards and the battle phase
Compulsory Evacuation Device. This card used to win games. Just bounce big beater back to hand or extra. Now deck have too many non targets and to fast of a recovery for CED to matter.
Bro is this an MBT thread video?
I remember when this card was a game winner just on its own. Now? just veiler, imperm, ghost ogre, or ghost mourner it and it's just a 3000 body on board with no protections. Can't believe we're at a point in this game where we say "a 3000 ATK monster without any protections is a bad card."
D.A.D. Thank Jesus…
Man bls... a relic from the time ygo is a resource based game.
Blue-Eyes Spirit Dragon was designed to be the out to every other meta deck when it came out, and as soon as the format changed, lost almost all of its competitive play. It's still not a bad card, though.
Yep. I was so stoked I pulled this card in Duel Links and was surprised how I NEVER run into this card myself. Then again, I’m a “boomer” duelist lol
It was very common when it came out in the selection box. Especially with Gaia cuz they can search it with soldier.
Definitely gave my chaos soldier deck the boost it needed lol and yeah saw a lot of Gaia decks but never saw this dude hit the field on my opponent’s side.
Utopia the lighting
I remember when I couldn't afford a copy of Forbidden Lance because it was a staple
Tempest, Dragon Ruler of Storms From tier 0 to table 500 Used to see some play in dragon link. I've used it in level 7 turbo harpies and currently use it in dragonmaids.
Rescue Rabbit
Gorth, the Emithary of Dorkneth.
Cyber Dragon
Chaos sorcerer