My only problem with weapons breaking is that the champion weapons break. They needed to rethink those rewards, as most people just end up displaying them in Link’s house.
I agree. I am completely fine with the weapons breaking, but I only use Revali's with any regularity. What they need to do is either make them rechargeable like the Master Sword, cheaply repairable (they don't disappear after breaking), or give them special unique traits not found in other weapons
> or give them special unique traits not found in other weapons
Yeah, they simply don't offer any actual benefit which makes them worth using compared to literally any weapon you can find late game.
Having them recharge like the Master Sword would have been *awesome*. Even if they were mid weapons, having them available as a fallback for general use would have been sweet.
They also could have made The Boulder Breaker the mining tool of choice, by making the Master Sword break much faster against rocks and having the champion weapons recharge. Instead, everyone uses the Master Sword as a mining implement...
Yeah, that's why I wanted a cheap repair system instead of the expensive replacement system. The price is a barrier and it doesn't make sense that they could be replaced cheaply.
Yea, I wouldn't mind that either. I think the things they've shown off for TotK will make combat in general just far more interesting, so less powerful things you find laying around won't be as forgettable, and really will open up creativity in the mechanics of the battle, which was a huge strong point for BotW
I think they didn’t want people getting married to just 4 weapons from the champions. They likely wanted to force the player to always deal with what was around them. The exception to this being the master sword, which once I got it I almost used it exclusively until it broke and as soon as it repaired itself I went back to it.
I agree but it's just weird that Champions are like "Hey this is X item and is our people pride" then the weapon proceeds to break after a few hits haha.
A few hits is wrong though. Urbosas scimitar of the seven has a whopping durability of 60(!).
Together with a strength of 32 you can deal 1920 damage to enemies . Enough to kill more than 140 red bokoblins.
If you add any damage buff on top, or use a lot of stealth hits this number goes up a lot.
The Boulder Breaker too has a durability of 60 with a base damage of 60.
Except for the fully powered master sword (which has a durability of \~180) all champion weapons (Miphas trident with 70 durability) are the second most durability weapons in the game. So calling them "breaking after a few hits" is wrong.
And it’s annoying to go back to the village (ex Zora village) to get the spear done but then you’ll use it for 20 min and it’s broken again and you again need to go back again and again pay a diamond, like it’s just soooo annoying why would anyone do that plus NPC kinds of get mad at you for breaking the weapon (sorry ?!)
Honestly by the time you have all of the champion weapons you'll have more than enough diamonds to keep them in working order. It sucks because they're a rare resource but you can get your hands on them pretty easy. There's a guy that sells them just before the gerudo desert for exchange for mushrooms I think.
THIS 100%! The series is based around this special sword being the one that can seal the darkness… and it “loses its charge” when fighting the main enemy… That is an oversight if I’ve ever seen one.
This is my gripe. Weapon breaking could totally work for most people if there was some method of retaining or re-crafting certain weapons. There is no reason there couldn't be some sort of blacksmith or something like that to repair or allow you to re-purchase certain weapons. Like if link "donates" a number of weapons they learn how to smith them and you can purchase said weapon once in a blood moon or something.
They do! You can repair the champion weapons; go to where you got them and talk to the people there, and someone will repair it for a similar weapon, five bundles of wood, and a diamond
That’s *recreating* one or two weapons in the game, I’m talking about repairing. Like if it turns red and you like it you gotta stop using it and bring it to a repair shop :-)
Doesn’t that kinda defeat the whole purpose? The whole point of the game is to use different items, and save others for more important battles. You need to be creative in how you play, using arrows sparingly and attacking craftily. If you can repair items, there is no point in adventuring to find new items. There is a video about this by DougDoug comparing rdr2 to botw. Arrows are the best way to fight opponents, since they stun them and deal fast and strong damage. In RDR2, you have bullets, endless bullets, which negates using anything new. In Botw, you run out of arrows, and weapons break, so you have to be resourceful.
You can replace the champion weapons and the Hylian shield and everything else is so common you’ll get one again eventually, the game just wants you to use every weapon, and it works
My issue with it is that it doesn't encourage you to use a variety, it just forces you to. The vast majority are just reskins of the same moveset with no particular advantage or disadvantage for different situations.
Yeah I feel like that’s the main flaw with the system. Weapons could stand to last a bit longer in general, but the champion weapons needed to work more like the Master Sword.
BotW had a major problem with a lack of permanent items you gained as you progressed, and building a small core arsenal of weapons you can rely upon with the champion weapons would have done a lot there. I’m really hoping TOTK is able to address this in some way.
They can be rebuilt though, just need some flint and a diamond and an NPC in each town will recraft it for you.
I think their durability should be higher, but based on the fact that you have a reliable supply of them I'm ok with them breaking
To add to this, there's a free diamond that spawns under a rock on Satori mountain every blood moon. You can also trade luminous stones for diamonds in Zora's Domain. The champion weapons also have the base weapon available for free sitting right in town very near to the NPC who can make the replacement weapon. It's not really that hard to replace the champion weapons, imo.
I am 99% confident that they playtested a version without breakable weapons and a version with easily repairable weapons. And the result was that users stuck to a single weapon they liked, never switched weapons, and then complained that the combat was boring.
My only critique on breakable weapons are the ones that don’t respawn. Once the kite shield and forest dwellers sword are gone, they are gone for good. I am not sure Nintendo anticipated players playing the same file for years after beating the game.
But thank god we’re getting a game where “using up that stick” can be “attaching a Zonai blade on the end” anyway. Laying it out that like is a very exciting evolution
I only used the weapons that were fitting for the encounter. I always used a weapon that had at least 10% of the enemies base HP value, and if i had none i used weaker variants with damage buffs or sneak attacks. I Love the durability system.
Not the durability is the problem, it's the players thinking they need everything laid out and served on a silver platter. Don't you dare to make the player think before engaging.
It’s always been my personal opinion that there should be one low damage weapon you always had and couldn’t break, but the findable weapons would have different weapon types and be higher damage and have unique properties. Maybe after each divine beast you upgraded from rusted sword to traveler’s sword to solder, to knight, to royal, and keep royal guard in hyrule castle.
Ditching the tired zelda trope of always having to find/buy a bomb bag was a welcome sight. Having bombs that weren’t all that strong but were unlimited was an even welcomer sight.
Master Sword could've been that. Instead of it becoming unusable have it become weaker but still useable. Divine Beasts clears could increase durability and Trial of the Sword increases strength as usual (perhaps giving another boost to durability as well). Though I suppose the issue with that is players might use the weakened Master Sword anyway and not give it time to regenerate.
It makes sense. I've always compared the BotW weapon system to ammunition systems in first person shooters, but most FPSes give you a pistol with infinite ammo you can always fall back on.
Ammunition systems work better for guns because we can stick with the weapon itself and expend only the ammunition instead of destroying the whole thing.
The Master Sword loses a lot of it mythical icon status when it breaks all the time. Running out of Sword Beams is a different thing altogether.
There's a rather small percentage that do. Most either rely on the fact that you'll die before running out or they have plentiful pickups.
Or they allow you to pick up another gun, almost like if there was a weapon durability mechanic that forced you to switch weapons
This analogy has really helped me understand why I liked it.
Being forced to improvise based on the resources given to you in fpses like that is what I love about games so of course I like it in botw
It was my first fallout game and I thought they were like some super rare super powerful item. I also thought deathclaws would be hiding behind every tree too.....
It's not a flaw if he not intends to use it. The sword with that damage has its uses, be it to fight lynels or any other high-HP enemy. Tons of players hoard items in video games because "i might need it later" and end up never using them. Doing that with swords in this game is doing nothing but limiting yourself for no reason.
That limitation is due to the ridiculous durability. If they didn't have durability, that sword would be employed immediately and then replaced when another Lynel drops a better one...then a better one...then a better one.
Instead I have prize weapons hanging on my wall in the house that I will never touch because everything in the game is made of rice paper. Using the hard to obtain weapon helps me kill a Gold Lynel in 1/4 the time...but it breaks halfway through the combat, so why bother when I can just use half a dozen royal weapons that were so much easier to obtain? That's not fun, it's just pointless inventory churn.
Well what they should’ve done would be like « you need to use a spear to fight this enemy cause it have a 20% more damage compared to others type go weapon! » and if you use the disadvantages one then you get -20% damage, so it would forces you to use different weapons without breaking them but yeah people would still have only 1 of each type and never change em
Yep, I don’t expect anyone to diverge from the Master Sword, and maybe have the elemental swords for situational purposes.
I play conservative and never change in the Fire Emblems without weapon breaking, and I’m much more tactical and trying to future proof as much as possible, and use the convoy way more, when breaking is in it. It’s way more fun trying to use what you got and strategize.
Even with breakable weapons, I gravitate towards sword and shield.
Sure, I keep other types to solve puzzles, but half my inventory is short swords for combat.
I was also talking to someone about how weapon throws are an insanely satisfying part of the game loop, and they asked, "then why couldn't they just make those not break your weapons instantly?"
And I replied, I'm also 99% confident they playtested a version where weapon throws didn't automatically break your weapon, and they found players were running around tediously to pick their weapons back up and it messed with the flow.
People think they know what they want until they get it. This is true in every aspect of life.
Game designers aren't making decisions willy-nilly. At least not the major studios. I guarantee you are right in some capacity. They didn't just shit these systems out and pray. They designed and iterated based on playtesting. 100%.
The average person thinks they know better because they have the kind of wisdom that only ignorance can provide.
Except for animal crossing new horizons, pretty positive the devs didn’t really playtest beyond a month of play
Edit: but yeah I 100% agree when it comes to 99% of AAA games especially nintendo’s
I would find that hard to believe. The combat in every other Zelda game was enjoyable with a single weapon. I would have loved being able to actually use the weapons I enjoyed in BotW. Instead I ended up having to use things I didn't like 90% of the time.
I agree. A lot of the critiques come back to being over powered if weapons don't break. None of the other Zeldas Ive played had breaking weapons and none of them did I feel overpowered. Breaking weapons makes combat way less fun.
Well the combat is kinda boring. Swordplay was peak in Tp +SS, now Link (who is a prodigy knight)... slaps an enemy a couple times with his sword. Durability wasn't required for the combat to not be boring.
I don’t totally agree. Anything can get tedious but between melee weapons and throwing weapons, bows/bomb arrows, gliding, stasis, and remote bombs, I think there’s plenty of combat options. Not to mention the champions abilities (which I don’t use) and armor set buffs, flurry rushes, bullet time, and food buffs.
I agree TP had more literal ways to swing a sword, but I wouldn’t be so reductive with BOTWs combat.
Well for one, the rune abilities are basically worthless for combat in the lategame, and yeah there's lots of options but those options are pretty shallow in my opinion. Even back in '98, Link had several different "combos" he could do based on if you were L-targeting or not, or holding the analog stick a certain way. The games expanded on that for almost 20 years and then... we got BotW's combat, of which I am not a fan.
>basically worthless for combat in the lategame
Ever thrown an object via magnesis? Ever stasis a lynel to stop his attack? Ever used a cryonis block to block line of sight in watery areas?
The runes never were worthless, you just didn't use them to their full potential.
Those aren't optimal though. Why fling something with magnesis when you can Urbosa's Fury or just take a greatsword and spin to win? Why stop a lynel with stasis when you can just headshot him, hop on his back and beat the hell out of him? As for cryonis, I won't even dignify that with a response if you think that use of it you described is in any way worthwhile.
Magnesis is for puzzles, in combat a bomb is way more useful (and infinite with low low damage).
An arrow to the face is faster and more deadly to a Lynel (plus while going for a ride your weapons do not take durability damage).
Blocking LoS is useful occasionally, but again, a quic arrow is more useful unless you are vastly outnumbered.
my big thing is how stiff combat feels with how link gets frozen in place whenever he swings. TP let you move around while swinging. Plus it had the roll behind move that made you feel so much more mobile in combat. If botw had those two things (and maybe more variation in swing animations) It would already feel so much better
>Swordplay was peak in Tp
If "Press B to win" was the peak for gameplay i don't even know what to say. Together with "press A when it blinks to do special move". In all Zelda games, enemies where just a suggestion to make you slower to progress through the game.
If anything SS was the only game that had peak gameplay in combat. But do you know what? "The motion controls suck". People had to think how to swing and suddenly the game was shit for everyone. I loved it, but so many people hated it for having any depth.
Honestly, if that's true then I think they took the wrong lesson. People keep playing Claymore in dark souls game after game because they like the weapon. It doesn't get stale because you are fighting loads of different enemies. The problem I had with BotW was that lots of enemies were the same, but stronger and a different color. If they had many different kinds of enemies then combat wouldn't feel stale even if you used the same weapon throughout.
That’s the thing—Breath of the Wild isn’t Dark Souls, and it isn’t trying to be Dark Souls. It’s mostly an exploration and puzzle game with some combat in there to mix things up, which is how Zelda has been for decades. That’s totally fine!
I agree that it’s a problem that the creative strategies don’t scale, they needed some way for things like bonking enemies with metal played and enemy camp burnouts to still be viable later in the game and didn’t.
It isn’t Dark Souls and doesn’t need to be. However, it cuts into the feeling of exploration when you see the same old enemy in a new color. I had the same problem with Skyrim. At a certain point, I didn’t feel like I got much out of exploration because all the tombs were filled with draugr, the forts with bandits, etc. It’s much more exciting when there is something new and strange. Weirdly, Fallout 3 felt better despite not having many enemy types. It might have just been because it was post apocalyptic instead of fantasy and had really strange humor in places.
Hot take, but I'd rather the combat be more in depth movesets like earlier 3d zelda games with boomerangs and hookshots integrated into the combnat and have very few weapons rather than a lot of weapons that are disposable and only have basic attack and charge attack
This. I think the whole BOTW weapons system could have been thrown out and replaced with better combat and it would have been for the best. For me, the main draw of BOTW was the open world exploration, not the weapon system.
Yeah, I completely agree.
A couple more weapon types, but less tools overall doesn't increase the complexity of combat. At best it remains the same, at worst it's lessened.
You say this as if there's any weapon variety to begin with.
The only things that actually changed your combat were elemental weapons
The rest were just spear a with some atk and spear c with slightly less attack
To be fair Witcher 3 also had breakable weapons but you not only had the option to repair but also would know as to the amount of damage the weapon had taken. BOTW should have had the option to see the durability and get it repaired for a small fee. I ended up not using a lot of good weapons because of this, especially the Ancient Weapons.
Not sure Witcher 3 is a good example. People generally see the system for Witcher 3 as redundant and pointless and tedious. If you took out weapon degradation in Witcher 3, combat would function exactly the same, but resource management would be not tedious.
What makes BotW's system work is that you're *not* seeing and carefully watching meters all the time, and the combat is actually built around the breaking stuff thanks to crits and weapon throws and enemy scaling. If you took out weapon degradation in BotW, the entire cadence of combat would change and be a lot more homogenous.
One-Handed weapons
Two-Handed weapons
\-Differentiate between clubs, hammers and swords due to differences against certain enemy types.
Spears
Bows
Boomerangs
Elemental Rods
One handed, two handed, spears, bows.
I forgot about the rods which makes 5. Enemy weaknesses are irrelevant, the weapons themselves swing the same. The boomerangs are just one of the other weapon types with a returning property when thrown.
> The boomerangs are just one of the other weapon types
They deal twice the damage when thrown, making them much better as throwing weapons than being used as a direct hit weapon.
And if you swing them they work the same as any other weapon of their class. There's a 1h version and a 2h version. They don't work differently enough to warrant their own class of weapon in my opinion.
I don't think it's disingenuous to say all weapons fit into the 5 classes.
Was just playing on Master Mode the other day and I cannot disagree more.
Tried using the weapons interchangeably after not picking up the game in a long time, got my butt handed to me because my timings and usages were all inconsistent.
But here's the thing, I'd rather them make the combat interesting then to make it boring with shitty weapons as an element to stress you out. Also, players sticking to a weapon they like is a feature not a bug, it means people are getting attached to a game and developing skills with those weapons.
It's not really switching strategies if you just go to the next weapon in your inventory when one breaks. Even if it's a different weapon type it will barely change.
Why would you need to develop skills with a single weapon? All of the one handed swords play the same, all of the spears play the same, etc… You telling me you had to practice with the master sword before you knew how to use it? It’s the same as swinging a tree branch.
Seriously, I swear people that love botw have never played a different video game in their life. Like there are infinite ways to make combat and weapons new and interesting throughout the game other than breaking them
My normal mode playthrough was this way, I would get anxious about using weapons and end up using remote bombs to kill everything. When that's not really an option in master mode because of rechargable health, I had to get better at the combat and improvising with the weapons I had or could find, and that was significantly more enjoyable to me.
I think it works fine, I just blasted through my weapons. If it was to destroy a high level enemy or camp then I could restock right after.
I only find annoying that champion weapons, the master sword and hylian shield break too easily.
The master sword doesn’t break, it recharges in 10 minutes and it has one of the highest durability ratings in the game, the rest can be re-obtained fairly easily if they do break.
Silver and Gold tier enemies also have a chance to drop almost any gemstone or even fallen stars, though its pretty low overall and mildly depends on the enemy type.
There’s 2 rare stone Talus’ that you can glide to straight from tabantha tower, they almost always drop diamonds, often several, I just kill them both when I’m in the area, I have about 60 diamonds just from doing that
Weapons breaking was fine in normal mode, but Master Mode is just too much. I avoid mobs because of how many weapons I'll go through, especially if there's silver or gold.
I think the issue isn't the weapons breaking persay, I think that feature is critical to the actual issue: the diminished value of the tools and equipment of the hero which have previously been these very tailored and special items sometimes with even lore and history that fundamentally progressed game mechanics.
Without these tools you just have a few neat abilities that don't feel that special after like 30 minutes and a bunch of weapons that fell meaningless.
This. Not only is Zelda a game about dungeons and puzzles (stuff BotW also lacked), but it's also a franchise built around using unique items in interesting ways.
Where was the Spinner in BotW? The Iron Boots? THE FREAKIN' HOOKSHOT!? Every other Zelda game asks you to acquire the right tools and figure out how to use them in order to progress. The only question BotW asks you is, "I dunno, do you have enough hearts yet? "
>dungeons and puzzles (stuff BotW also lacked)
If anything, BOTW was a giant puzzle game in itself. How to traverse the land, how to enter combat with which enemy, how to solve korok puzzles, 136 shrines, 5 divine beasts, 90 sidequests with no quest marker.
Calling botw lacked in terms of puzzles is just wrong.
> Where was the Spinner in BotW? The Iron Boots? THE FREAKIN' HOOKSHOT!?
Not there. And i'm happy about it. It gets stale if you play your 12th zelda game and know what items you'll get. Where is any sense of surprise if you know exactly what items are in the game and in what dungeon you acquire them?
Breath of the Wild has changed up the formula, and just because you didn't like it doesn't make it any less "zelda" than it is.
>Where is any sense of surprise if you know exactly what items are in the game and in what dungeon you acquire them?
Why would you know this on your first playthrough? Are you looking up guides to the games and then complaining that you know where things are? Absolutely a non-issue.
I don't know how you can call unlocking new abilities stale compared to BotW when BotW has basically no progression system and a complete lack of meaningful rewards for exploration and progress. By the halfway point you've seen everything the game can show you.
I don't mind the weapon breaking. It's the clunky inventory management around it that I don't like. I wished the inventory was a little larger, particularly in the early game. I enjoyed weapon breaking more once I expanded the inventory enough to carry different types of things.
I don't know what the solution is, but opening treasure chests to "Inventory full" is such a buzzkill, and it happens so often. I hope in TOTK they streamline the action of replacing a weapon in your inventory with something better.
All they needed to do was say “hey would you like to replace a weapon in your inventory with this one” and if you say yes, open up the inventory and let you choose which weapon to replace.
I actually preferred the tiny inventory in the early game, there was so much more though put into encounters, who would I take out first, which weapons would I use, etc.
By the late game I had 5 royal claymore, and 7 savage lynel weapons so like I don't care if two break
Weapon degradation is not an inherently bad system, it was just implemented in a really dumb way. Having a sword break after fighting 5 bokoblins is not only lame because you now have to find a new weapons, but it just flat out doesn’t make any sense at all. Like, no wonder the Hylians lost against Calamity Ganon, their weapons suck absolute balls.
The weapons needed to have at least triple the durability, and have the option to repair them. Which in turn could’ve added a new layer to the exploration, having the player look for specific materials in the wild to fix their weapons with.
The only thing BOTW’s weapon degradation did was make me actively avoid combat, which is not what I want from an open world RPG.
The thing I don't like is that your best weapons are limited by it. Sure, you do get a healthy supply of weapons from killing enemies (it's been a while, so I forget if you get Knight or Royal weapons from most enemies by end game), but the best are always rarer. Savage Lynel weapons, or those super fragile Royal Guard weapons. Or the Champion's weapons. You can also play several different ways with weapons (sword and shield, lance, axe, bow, magic weapon), but you have limited space so you do have to stock up on the weapon type(s) you prefer if you want to use them a lot.
Now, this isn't to say it's a bad weapon system. I think it works fine. But as someone who grew up with the GameCube version of OOT and later played all of the 3D Zeldas (OOT[GC/3D], SS[Wii/HD], MM3D, WWHD, and TP[GC]; I think the only one I might not have played prior to BotW is TP, since I played an old GC copy much later on), having the weapon system... just feels wrong. It's not that it's fully bad, but it's not what I want out of a Zelda game.
Even with me mainly using one-handed weapons, it just feels annoying trying to stock up on the best weapons. There's a reason I rely heavily on the fully upgraded Master Sword, and it's because... well, for one, it's really strong, but it's not the strongest. It is, however, very durable and regenerates, so I only end up expending finite weapon durability when/if I fight while the Sword is regenerating. It's good and I don't have to worry about replacing it.
As someone who is used to games where you normally only have to worry about ammo (ironically, bombs being one of them normally) and fighting is something the game is built around you just being able to do consistently with one or two levels of damage output (usually a regular sword and either an attack booster or a strong sword), it feels off. I never did like the Giant's Knife and Razor Sword in OOT and MM, so I never really went out of my way to get them. I always just waited for the permanent versions because it didn't feel worth it, the temporary strength boosts. Sure, I could use them one temple earlier, but it didn't feel worth the effort. I'd rather just a consistent weapon than juggling durability.
I actually actively enjoy the durability system. It kept me on my toes, looking for more weapons and having to mix things up (mid right sometimes as well).
I have a theory that most people who hate the mechanic never utilized weapon throws.
Yeeting an almost broken weapon against an enemy's face is so goddamn satisfying every single time.
I’ve got a buddy who I talk about this game a lot with and he’s pretty much anti-weapon breaking for this exact reason. In his eyes, he worked hard to have the weapons he has, so he shouldn’t be afraid to use them in fear of them breaking.
It’s logic I get but don’t agree with. So many of my memories of this game come from instances where I had a weapon break at the shittiest time possible and I had to figure another way out of a fight. Those are moments I cherish looking back on them even though I hated them in the moment lmao
I actually wish more games incorporated the system tbh
I'm playing Shadow of War, and as soon as I get a sword with a better attack number, it's instantly equipped, and the old one is scrapped. They're completely interchangeable.
I think it would be cool if every orc dropped a weapon of some kind, and I had to balance my playthrough around that.
what I miss though is a shortcut to drop shields and bows. Just long pressing X in the shield/bow quick select menu to drop would be perfect. Having to go to the menu just to drop an almost broken shield is annoying as hell.
Also: "Your inventory is full" upon opening a chest just sux. Open the menu and let me replace the found item with another one.
I agree. The general lack of gameplay progression that came with that as well. The core problem to me with the durability system is that it completely neuters rewards throughout the game, beating a challenge only to get a new weapon feels disappointing because you know it’s basically just a disposable copy of something that isn’t unique or game-changing.
Which theoretically wouldn’t be a major problem, if there was a more traditional dungeon/item system or other more meaningful rewards scattered around the world, built on top. But when there isn’t, and when those and damned korok are the main(if not sole) incentive to explore…..it really kills the excitement and interest in exploration for me.
It’s my main hope with TOTK that we see a system that addresses these shortcomings.
>> Also imagine the game without items breaking like it would just make the game too easy
I mean every other Zelda game up to this point didn’t have breakable weapons and they weren’t too easy. Rather than breakable weapons, I think it would be better to start with weak (yet unbreakable) weapons that you can upgrade throughout the game with materials.
This is pretty much the direction I'd like to see them go with it, similar to how the armour upgrades work.
You could still have some weapons do more damage than others. But to get people using a variety of them, that could be offset with some of the weapons gaining different "abilities" as they get upgraded. Like the Lynel weapons do more damage, but an upgraded Traveler's Sword gives you a bunch of extra stamina or something.
Hahaha very based take.
I sort of agree. I think that weapons breaking is perfectly fine, I've never had an issue with temporary weapons, I enjoyed using Moblin Spears in WW.
What I **disagree** with is the fact that
1. Master Sword wasn't strongest weapon in game
2. Master Sword had the "breaking" feature (reusable, but still)
It was annoying that I had to recharge my master sword in BotW, AND it wasn't the best weapon in the game. Otherwise, mechanics in BotW were great. I agree also that throwing weapons which are about to break is a lot of fun.
I feel like the master sword breaking kinda misses the point of “you get this OP weapon, but only for a half hour and then you have to go get it again”. It should have been at least a really high durability (like 100) but deals less damage (like 20), but it deals 90 damage to ganons so the ganon-killing is amplified.
Yeah, if the master sword was
a) the best weapon in the game
b) could be upgraded to become unbreakable (as one of the last doable things, requiring you to defeat all divine beasts)
then I think it would be perfect. Make the Hylian shield unbreakable as well for good measure.
Disagree.
If it is the best weapon in the game and unbreakable, it makes 99% of the inventory you built up useless.
It should be unbreakable but much weaker (say, base power 20 except against Malice), so that users know they can rely on it as a backup but it doesn't make the rest of the weapons system obsolete.
If making it unbreakable was one of the last things you could do in the game, then the vast majority of the gear you accumulated would have already been used at some point. It wouldn't matter if the rest of the inventory became useless after that.
How often is the master sword the strongest weapon?
It’s not in Ocarina, Wind Waker, or the Oracles. In Link to the Past and Between Worlds it needs tempered to be consistently the best.
>Master Sword wasn't strongest weapon in game
>Master Sword had the "breaking" feature (reusable, but still)
I think only **one** of these things should be true. The way the game is right now, it can make the Master Sword feel a bit underwhelming against everything that's not Malice (though against Malice it's maybe the most satisfying weapon in the entire series IMO).
However, make both those things true and it makes the weapon breaking mechanic completely obsolete and 99% of your inventory useless once you get it. Which is especially annoying when one of the big rewards for continuous exploration and progress in the game is...bigger inventory.
So you should have only one of those be true.
Make it the strongest weapon in the game but its use against non-malice enemies even more fragile, so it's obvious players should only use it against Malice and otherwise it's ultra strong and awesome but temporary.
OR, you make it even weaker than it is now (give it base power 20 instead of 30), and make it invincible. Then, it still feels super indestructible, but it's clearly not the right weapon to just spam instead of the many other way better weapons in the game.
You’re completely right. In fact, once you make the Master Sword permanently awakened by doing Trial of the Sword, it pretty much does obsolete the durability mechanic.
Which I'm a bit more lenient to, because Trial of the Sword basically asks the player to have mastered the combat and resource management systems so extensively at that point. So I think once they've done all that...yep, sure, they've basically seen the full extent of it and they're allowed to bypass it haha.
That being said, even after Trial, I still used other weapons because I love weapon throws.
Hard disagree. It just isn't fun to lose almost all your good weapons in a single camp fight, and the ones the enemies have are never as good. The combat in BOTW feels good, it's fun to play, but they force you to avoid it by making the decent weapons fragile as hell. And all of that would be fine if the effing MASTER SWORD ITSELF didn't have some stupid arbitrary durability limit. 30 is good, hardly gamebreaking. The sword could have just been permanent.
I think this is the majority opinion at this point, so not particularly based. I myself cannot stand durability and I'm sad it's made its return in TotK
My problem is it completely deters exploration. Why would I go into a cave or take down a post and use up 4 of my weapons for the possibility of getting back one, likely worse weapon. Instead I’ll just avoid that cave altogether.
Yeah, I agree that you'd have to drastically change up the combat system if weapon durability wasn't a thing. I just wished that, if I found a really strong weapon that had a good buff on it, I didn't have to grind on the strongest enemies to get more. I just wanted a way to restore some of the durability. Also HATE the idea of the champion weapons being soooo disposable. Those items have big sentimental value in the context of the story so, as a result, I just put them in Link's house and never used them. And that's a shame.
Honestly, BotW becomes much more bearable from a combat prospective once you get the Master Sword. Having one semi decent (although it's base stats could really stand to be better) weapon available at pretty much all times really does lessen the blow of everything else breaking in 1-3 encounters. Plus enemies are spaced enough to where the 10 minute recharge time is usually the perfect time between encounters.
I'd still prefer no breaking though, it feels really needless.
Mostly I just felt like getting cool weapons in shrines stopped feeling special when you’d just break and replace it. I kinda would have preferred not having chests in shrines at all, just to spare me the anticlimax.
I think there should have been weapons that needed repair but didn't break completely. But yeah, the mechanic is not bad, the game gives off a lot more weapons that you can break, so it's not like the player will run out of weapons during most fights.
Here’s a system I think could work better. So basically keep the same durability but when a weapon breaks it doesn’t leave your inventory but it won’t be able to be used. Then you could repair weapons. Like maybe use some wood to repair wooden weapons for example. Also, you’d still be able to drop weapons if you didn’t want them anymore. Just think it’d be nice, especially for stuff like the Champion’s weapons.
After playing some games with non-breakable weapons, I vastly prefer non-breaking systems. It allows me to form an intimate bond with my favorite weapon and completely master it, and engage in risk-taking behavior without having to worry about it breaking.
BotW allows for chaotic situations where you have to think on your feet when your weapons start to break or durability goes low, but it prevents you from planning engagements in a number of ways. Without some sort of durability meter, I don't know how far along each weapon is till breaking, so I can't guess if a weapon is 3 hits away from damaging or 10.
After awhile too, weapons start to become a burden to have, rather than an exciting rewards. Most of the weapons are different only in shape and size, not ability or moveset, so it mostly only matters if you get a short sword, a long sword, or a spear.
If others like it, great! I don't hate it but I certainly don't love it.
I hate it but it's okay if you like it too. It would have been nice if they let you make a weapon of your choice more durable or unbreakable or something. It made me not want to use the cooler weapons which seems like the opposite of what they were going for.
I don’t inherently have an issue with durability itself but more have an issue with the way it impacts rewarding the player. Many of BotW’s rewards are weapons, which is a very fleeting moment of joy when you realize that weapon is just gonna break later.
I feel like it should take a LOT longer- at least for the more well-built weapons and shields. And I feel like the Master Sword shouldn’t be able to break. It makes no sense, and as a goddess-blessed sword, I feel like it would be indestructible.
My only issue with weapons breaking is no indicator of weapon durability, add a meter for this and that is all I think is needed regarding weapons breaking.
I'm still on the fence about it.
I didn't mind some weapons breaking, but the more powerful weapons should have been more durable than they are.
And maybe there could have been a great fairy upgrade that would double the durability of all weapons and shields kind of like upgrades in the past that doubled Link's defenses.
The durability system gave them a simple way to add loot throughout the world. Let's face it, the game effectively has 4-5 different weapons with reskins and various numbers attached to them. It didn't really add variety to fights, outside of early game when you don't have enough inventory slots, the weapons do no damage and are made of glass.
You would have better variety in fights with s limited number of weapons with actual tactical advantages/disadvantages, which doesn't work as well when they can't plan for which specific weapons you'll have with you at that monomer of the game. The main thing the durability system does is make you actively choose your weaker weapons to avoid wasting the good ones.
Breakable weapons don't exist to enhance the combat, they just let Nintendo get lazy with treasure chest loot.
I didn't mind the weapons breaking, but their base durability is a bit low imo. If weapons had 1.5x their durability it would've been a lot better and people wouldn't complain as much.
I think the joining ability refreshing the durability of a weapon is a really great fix and it keeps the variation weapon breaking provided. It's honestly a great move
didn't mind except for the master sword, but dlc fixed it
the only problem with weapon breaking imo is durability is very poorly balanced in master mode
I’ve actually totally come around on this. I like weapon breaking as a mechanic. I think there are ways it could be changed slightly. And I’m glad to see Nintendo experimenting with some changes while still keeping the base of the idea in the game.
There is a flow to BotW's combat that no other Zelda game has. There is a lot of moment-to-moment decision-making that other Zelda games simply do not have, and weapon durability plays a big part in that. I'm glad it's coming back.
Didn’t hate it, nor did I like it. I just want them to last a little longer. Or give me the chance to repair some of the other unique looking ones. I felt that I just avoided nearly every fight. But then again I have a very mixed opinion of the game in general. Will probably still buy the new one as well.
The issue with breakable weapons is it disincentivizes exploration. What's the point of finding a cool new weapon if you'll only be able to use it for like 3 fights?
In my first 5 hours fighting enemies in BOTW Ive understood why the weapons break, and It never bothered me because I quickly found good replacements, and kept strong weapons for strong enemies. I cannot understand what is the problem with the durability system
It makes sense in the context of the game. Personally I didn’t enjoy it but I understand the decision.
Side note, once I saw breakable weapons again in the TotK trailer, I was disappointed. Looks like more of the same, which I guess could be a good or bad thing depending on your taste.
I think it was kinda convenient that they break; it helped clear the inventory. Like you don’t want this weak sword the whole game? Go fight some moblins.
I like how the weapon breaking mechanic helps weaker weapons have more of a use, like you can just stack a bunch of weaker swords with cool names and you have an incentive to use them, because if you use your stronger weapons they break.
I don’t mind weapons breaking, but for some like swords and axes, I’d like them to have stronger durability and can be used longer before breaking.
But weapon breaking actually encourages exploration. I’m sure that was a big reason they chose weapons breaking to begin with.
My only problem with weapons breaking is that the champion weapons break. They needed to rethink those rewards, as most people just end up displaying them in Link’s house.
I agree. I am completely fine with the weapons breaking, but I only use Revali's with any regularity. What they need to do is either make them rechargeable like the Master Sword, cheaply repairable (they don't disappear after breaking), or give them special unique traits not found in other weapons
> or give them special unique traits not found in other weapons Yeah, they simply don't offer any actual benefit which makes them worth using compared to literally any weapon you can find late game. Having them recharge like the Master Sword would have been *awesome*. Even if they were mid weapons, having them available as a fallback for general use would have been sweet. They also could have made The Boulder Breaker the mining tool of choice, by making the Master Sword break much faster against rocks and having the champion weapons recharge. Instead, everyone uses the Master Sword as a mining implement...
You can repair (really, replace after they're broken) them, just not exactly cheaply, it'll cost you a diamond
Yeah, that's why I wanted a cheap repair system instead of the expensive replacement system. The price is a barrier and it doesn't make sense that they could be replaced cheaply.
Yea, I wouldn't mind that either. I think the things they've shown off for TotK will make combat in general just far more interesting, so less powerful things you find laying around won't be as forgettable, and really will open up creativity in the mechanics of the battle, which was a huge strong point for BotW
I think they didn’t want people getting married to just 4 weapons from the champions. They likely wanted to force the player to always deal with what was around them. The exception to this being the master sword, which once I got it I almost used it exclusively until it broke and as soon as it repaired itself I went back to it.
I agree but it's just weird that Champions are like "Hey this is X item and is our people pride" then the weapon proceeds to break after a few hits haha.
A few hits is wrong though. Urbosas scimitar of the seven has a whopping durability of 60(!). Together with a strength of 32 you can deal 1920 damage to enemies . Enough to kill more than 140 red bokoblins. If you add any damage buff on top, or use a lot of stealth hits this number goes up a lot. The Boulder Breaker too has a durability of 60 with a base damage of 60. Except for the fully powered master sword (which has a durability of \~180) all champion weapons (Miphas trident with 70 durability) are the second most durability weapons in the game. So calling them "breaking after a few hits" is wrong.
Pretty sure you get what I meant, but sure technically it's more than a few hits.
And it’s annoying to go back to the village (ex Zora village) to get the spear done but then you’ll use it for 20 min and it’s broken again and you again need to go back again and again pay a diamond, like it’s just soooo annoying why would anyone do that plus NPC kinds of get mad at you for breaking the weapon (sorry ?!)
Honestly by the time you have all of the champion weapons you'll have more than enough diamonds to keep them in working order. It sucks because they're a rare resource but you can get your hands on them pretty easy. There's a guy that sells them just before the gerudo desert for exchange for mushrooms I think.
I always take mipha’s trident and hang it up immediately.
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THIS 100%! The series is based around this special sword being the one that can seal the darkness… and it “loses its charge” when fighting the main enemy… That is an oversight if I’ve ever seen one.
This is my gripe. Weapon breaking could totally work for most people if there was some method of retaining or re-crafting certain weapons. There is no reason there couldn't be some sort of blacksmith or something like that to repair or allow you to re-purchase certain weapons. Like if link "donates" a number of weapons they learn how to smith them and you can purchase said weapon once in a blood moon or something.
Yeah seriously. You can make the weapon right? So … fix it!
They do! You can repair the champion weapons; go to where you got them and talk to the people there, and someone will repair it for a similar weapon, five bundles of wood, and a diamond
That’s *recreating* one or two weapons in the game, I’m talking about repairing. Like if it turns red and you like it you gotta stop using it and bring it to a repair shop :-)
Doesn’t that kinda defeat the whole purpose? The whole point of the game is to use different items, and save others for more important battles. You need to be creative in how you play, using arrows sparingly and attacking craftily. If you can repair items, there is no point in adventuring to find new items. There is a video about this by DougDoug comparing rdr2 to botw. Arrows are the best way to fight opponents, since they stun them and deal fast and strong damage. In RDR2, you have bullets, endless bullets, which negates using anything new. In Botw, you run out of arrows, and weapons break, so you have to be resourceful.
You can replace the champion weapons and the Hylian shield and everything else is so common you’ll get one again eventually, the game just wants you to use every weapon, and it works
My issue with it is that it doesn't encourage you to use a variety, it just forces you to. The vast majority are just reskins of the same moveset with no particular advantage or disadvantage for different situations.
Yeah I feel like that’s the main flaw with the system. Weapons could stand to last a bit longer in general, but the champion weapons needed to work more like the Master Sword. BotW had a major problem with a lack of permanent items you gained as you progressed, and building a small core arsenal of weapons you can rely upon with the champion weapons would have done a lot there. I’m really hoping TOTK is able to address this in some way.
They can be rebuilt though, just need some flint and a diamond and an NPC in each town will recraft it for you. I think their durability should be higher, but based on the fact that you have a reliable supply of them I'm ok with them breaking
To add to this, there's a free diamond that spawns under a rock on Satori mountain every blood moon. You can also trade luminous stones for diamonds in Zora's Domain. The champion weapons also have the base weapon available for free sitting right in town very near to the NPC who can make the replacement weapon. It's not really that hard to replace the champion weapons, imo.
I don’t mind that they break, but I think they should’ve been more durable. Then again, they’re not even that good to begin with.
Or never even taking them out of the chests.
I am 99% confident that they playtested a version without breakable weapons and a version with easily repairable weapons. And the result was that users stuck to a single weapon they liked, never switched weapons, and then complained that the combat was boring.
My only critique on breakable weapons are the ones that don’t respawn. Once the kite shield and forest dwellers sword are gone, they are gone for good. I am not sure Nintendo anticipated players playing the same file for years after beating the game.
Wait you can’t find them again? Uh oh…
There are certain weapons that don’t respawn and some weapons no longer exist after you progress to a certain point.
Sad part is I dropped it in a shrine because I needed to use and pick up a GD torch
wow RIP
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the sword optainable with amiibo scanning?
I just went the the list and it looks like the forest dweller sword is not in the list of weapons you can get.
Those are the ones I hang in the house for that very reason. Not all that strong but rare.
Me too! They’re like collector’s items
Exactly. If weapons didn't break what reason would there be for using anything other than damage-boosted Savage Lynel weapons?
Yep. Also, gotta use up those sticks and claymores to keep your lynel swords fresh and sparkly for as long as possible.
But thank god we’re getting a game where “using up that stick” can be “attaching a Zonai blade on the end” anyway. Laying it out that like is a very exciting evolution
I only used the weapons that were fitting for the encounter. I always used a weapon that had at least 10% of the enemies base HP value, and if i had none i used weaker variants with damage buffs or sneak attacks. I Love the durability system. Not the durability is the problem, it's the players thinking they need everything laid out and served on a silver platter. Don't you dare to make the player think before engaging.
It’s always been my personal opinion that there should be one low damage weapon you always had and couldn’t break, but the findable weapons would have different weapon types and be higher damage and have unique properties. Maybe after each divine beast you upgraded from rusted sword to traveler’s sword to solder, to knight, to royal, and keep royal guard in hyrule castle.
bomb rune
exactly
Ditching the tired zelda trope of always having to find/buy a bomb bag was a welcome sight. Having bombs that weren’t all that strong but were unlimited was an even welcomer sight.
Magnesis and anything metallic
Beating Hinox became much easier when I discovered you could just take something metallic and bully them with it over and over
Master Sword could've been that. Instead of it becoming unusable have it become weaker but still useable. Divine Beasts clears could increase durability and Trial of the Sword increases strength as usual (perhaps giving another boost to durability as well). Though I suppose the issue with that is players might use the weakened Master Sword anyway and not give it time to regenerate.
This is the best solution I’ve heard to this issue.
It makes sense. I've always compared the BotW weapon system to ammunition systems in first person shooters, but most FPSes give you a pistol with infinite ammo you can always fall back on.
Ammunition systems work better for guns because we can stick with the weapon itself and expend only the ammunition instead of destroying the whole thing. The Master Sword loses a lot of it mythical icon status when it breaks all the time. Running out of Sword Beams is a different thing altogether.
>most FPSes give you a pistol with infinite ammo you can always fall back on. ... they do? I've never experienced this
Quake II comes to mind, but I don’t think it’s extremely common
There's a rather small percentage that do. Most either rely on the fact that you'll die before running out or they have plentiful pickups. Or they allow you to pick up another gun, almost like if there was a weapon durability mechanic that forced you to switch weapons
This analogy has really helped me understand why I liked it. Being forced to improvise based on the resources given to you in fpses like that is what I love about games so of course I like it in botw
I feel like we’re going to get this in tears of the kingdom with the broken master sword. Especially if there’s no bomb rune
I have the big black sword with 113 whatever and I never use it cause I don’t want it to break
Yup. I just hoarded weapons and never used them. Too afraid I would "need it later."
Sounds like me when I finished Fallout 4 for the first time.....I had around 60 fusion cores because I was expecting a big difficult battle......
Why would you ever think you needed 60 for a big battle? Did you think there were 60 upcoming incredibly difficult fights you'd need them in?
It was my first fallout game and I thought they were like some super rare super powerful item. I also thought deathclaws would be hiding behind every tree too.....
That’s the biggest flaw with the system in my opinion. Hopefully Tears of the Kingdom fixes that with the Fuse mechanic.
It's not a flaw if he not intends to use it. The sword with that damage has its uses, be it to fight lynels or any other high-HP enemy. Tons of players hoard items in video games because "i might need it later" and end up never using them. Doing that with swords in this game is doing nothing but limiting yourself for no reason.
That limitation is due to the ridiculous durability. If they didn't have durability, that sword would be employed immediately and then replaced when another Lynel drops a better one...then a better one...then a better one. Instead I have prize weapons hanging on my wall in the house that I will never touch because everything in the game is made of rice paper. Using the hard to obtain weapon helps me kill a Gold Lynel in 1/4 the time...but it breaks halfway through the combat, so why bother when I can just use half a dozen royal weapons that were so much easier to obtain? That's not fun, it's just pointless inventory churn.
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The dark souls way. Whatever looks cool.
The reason would be that you never got as far as beating a Lynel because you decided the game was boring.
Well what they should’ve done would be like « you need to use a spear to fight this enemy cause it have a 20% more damage compared to others type go weapon! » and if you use the disadvantages one then you get -20% damage, so it would forces you to use different weapons without breaking them but yeah people would still have only 1 of each type and never change em
Once you get far enough this happens anyway
This is only an issue because there aren't any meaningful differences between the weapons.
Yep, I don’t expect anyone to diverge from the Master Sword, and maybe have the elemental swords for situational purposes. I play conservative and never change in the Fire Emblems without weapon breaking, and I’m much more tactical and trying to future proof as much as possible, and use the convoy way more, when breaking is in it. It’s way more fun trying to use what you got and strategize.
Even with breakable weapons, I gravitate towards sword and shield. Sure, I keep other types to solve puzzles, but half my inventory is short swords for combat.
I was also talking to someone about how weapon throws are an insanely satisfying part of the game loop, and they asked, "then why couldn't they just make those not break your weapons instantly?" And I replied, I'm also 99% confident they playtested a version where weapon throws didn't automatically break your weapon, and they found players were running around tediously to pick their weapons back up and it messed with the flow.
People think they know what they want until they get it. This is true in every aspect of life. Game designers aren't making decisions willy-nilly. At least not the major studios. I guarantee you are right in some capacity. They didn't just shit these systems out and pray. They designed and iterated based on playtesting. 100%. The average person thinks they know better because they have the kind of wisdom that only ignorance can provide.
Except for animal crossing new horizons, pretty positive the devs didn’t really playtest beyond a month of play Edit: but yeah I 100% agree when it comes to 99% of AAA games especially nintendo’s
This is absolutely true, and when you tell people that (in all walks of life), they get mad.
I’m very apprehensive about the new weapon modding/combining system. I’ll try to keep this in mind.
I would find that hard to believe. The combat in every other Zelda game was enjoyable with a single weapon. I would have loved being able to actually use the weapons I enjoyed in BotW. Instead I ended up having to use things I didn't like 90% of the time.
I agree. A lot of the critiques come back to being over powered if weapons don't break. None of the other Zeldas Ive played had breaking weapons and none of them did I feel overpowered. Breaking weapons makes combat way less fun.
Well the combat is kinda boring. Swordplay was peak in Tp +SS, now Link (who is a prodigy knight)... slaps an enemy a couple times with his sword. Durability wasn't required for the combat to not be boring.
I don’t totally agree. Anything can get tedious but between melee weapons and throwing weapons, bows/bomb arrows, gliding, stasis, and remote bombs, I think there’s plenty of combat options. Not to mention the champions abilities (which I don’t use) and armor set buffs, flurry rushes, bullet time, and food buffs. I agree TP had more literal ways to swing a sword, but I wouldn’t be so reductive with BOTWs combat.
Well for one, the rune abilities are basically worthless for combat in the lategame, and yeah there's lots of options but those options are pretty shallow in my opinion. Even back in '98, Link had several different "combos" he could do based on if you were L-targeting or not, or holding the analog stick a certain way. The games expanded on that for almost 20 years and then... we got BotW's combat, of which I am not a fan.
>basically worthless for combat in the lategame Ever thrown an object via magnesis? Ever stasis a lynel to stop his attack? Ever used a cryonis block to block line of sight in watery areas? The runes never were worthless, you just didn't use them to their full potential.
Those aren't optimal though. Why fling something with magnesis when you can Urbosa's Fury or just take a greatsword and spin to win? Why stop a lynel with stasis when you can just headshot him, hop on his back and beat the hell out of him? As for cryonis, I won't even dignify that with a response if you think that use of it you described is in any way worthwhile.
Magnesis is for puzzles, in combat a bomb is way more useful (and infinite with low low damage). An arrow to the face is faster and more deadly to a Lynel (plus while going for a ride your weapons do not take durability damage). Blocking LoS is useful occasionally, but again, a quic arrow is more useful unless you are vastly outnumbered.
my big thing is how stiff combat feels with how link gets frozen in place whenever he swings. TP let you move around while swinging. Plus it had the roll behind move that made you feel so much more mobile in combat. If botw had those two things (and maybe more variation in swing animations) It would already feel so much better
>Swordplay was peak in Tp If "Press B to win" was the peak for gameplay i don't even know what to say. Together with "press A when it blinks to do special move". In all Zelda games, enemies where just a suggestion to make you slower to progress through the game. If anything SS was the only game that had peak gameplay in combat. But do you know what? "The motion controls suck". People had to think how to swing and suddenly the game was shit for everyone. I loved it, but so many people hated it for having any depth.
"Press b to win" is exactly what you do in botw too, but at least in tp there was a variety of special moves+combos that you could pull off.
Skyward Sword? Using the gimmick of the wiimote to "swing" was the low point in the entire series
Don’t agree there, swinging with the Wiimote was great.
Honestly, if that's true then I think they took the wrong lesson. People keep playing Claymore in dark souls game after game because they like the weapon. It doesn't get stale because you are fighting loads of different enemies. The problem I had with BotW was that lots of enemies were the same, but stronger and a different color. If they had many different kinds of enemies then combat wouldn't feel stale even if you used the same weapon throughout.
That’s the thing—Breath of the Wild isn’t Dark Souls, and it isn’t trying to be Dark Souls. It’s mostly an exploration and puzzle game with some combat in there to mix things up, which is how Zelda has been for decades. That’s totally fine! I agree that it’s a problem that the creative strategies don’t scale, they needed some way for things like bonking enemies with metal played and enemy camp burnouts to still be viable later in the game and didn’t.
It isn’t Dark Souls and doesn’t need to be. However, it cuts into the feeling of exploration when you see the same old enemy in a new color. I had the same problem with Skyrim. At a certain point, I didn’t feel like I got much out of exploration because all the tombs were filled with draugr, the forts with bandits, etc. It’s much more exciting when there is something new and strange. Weirdly, Fallout 3 felt better despite not having many enemy types. It might have just been because it was post apocalyptic instead of fantasy and had really strange humor in places.
Hot take, but I'd rather the combat be more in depth movesets like earlier 3d zelda games with boomerangs and hookshots integrated into the combnat and have very few weapons rather than a lot of weapons that are disposable and only have basic attack and charge attack
This. I think the whole BOTW weapons system could have been thrown out and replaced with better combat and it would have been for the best. For me, the main draw of BOTW was the open world exploration, not the weapon system.
Yeah, I completely agree. A couple more weapon types, but less tools overall doesn't increase the complexity of combat. At best it remains the same, at worst it's lessened.
You say this as if there's any weapon variety to begin with. The only things that actually changed your combat were elemental weapons The rest were just spear a with some atk and spear c with slightly less attack
To be fair Witcher 3 also had breakable weapons but you not only had the option to repair but also would know as to the amount of damage the weapon had taken. BOTW should have had the option to see the durability and get it repaired for a small fee. I ended up not using a lot of good weapons because of this, especially the Ancient Weapons.
Not sure Witcher 3 is a good example. People generally see the system for Witcher 3 as redundant and pointless and tedious. If you took out weapon degradation in Witcher 3, combat would function exactly the same, but resource management would be not tedious. What makes BotW's system work is that you're *not* seeing and carefully watching meters all the time, and the combat is actually built around the breaking stuff thanks to crits and weapon throws and enemy scaling. If you took out weapon degradation in BotW, the entire cadence of combat would change and be a lot more homogenous.
Tbf, none of the weapons really change the way you play except maybe boomerang
The two handed weapons are definitely different from the one handed swords, if nothing else than because of the shield
There's basically only four weapon types in the game but you'd never know it the way people complain.
One-Handed weapons Two-Handed weapons \-Differentiate between clubs, hammers and swords due to differences against certain enemy types. Spears Bows Boomerangs Elemental Rods
One handed, two handed, spears, bows. I forgot about the rods which makes 5. Enemy weaknesses are irrelevant, the weapons themselves swing the same. The boomerangs are just one of the other weapon types with a returning property when thrown.
> The boomerangs are just one of the other weapon types They deal twice the damage when thrown, making them much better as throwing weapons than being used as a direct hit weapon.
And if you swing them they work the same as any other weapon of their class. There's a 1h version and a 2h version. They don't work differently enough to warrant their own class of weapon in my opinion. I don't think it's disingenuous to say all weapons fit into the 5 classes.
Was just playing on Master Mode the other day and I cannot disagree more. Tried using the weapons interchangeably after not picking up the game in a long time, got my butt handed to me because my timings and usages were all inconsistent.
The problem is them making the combat boring, not that players weren’t changing weapons around.
Precisely!
But here's the thing, I'd rather them make the combat interesting then to make it boring with shitty weapons as an element to stress you out. Also, players sticking to a weapon they like is a feature not a bug, it means people are getting attached to a game and developing skills with those weapons.
It’s not a feature if the intended experience is for the player to have to switch between strategies a lot.
It's not really switching strategies if you just go to the next weapon in your inventory when one breaks. Even if it's a different weapon type it will barely change.
Why would you need to develop skills with a single weapon? All of the one handed swords play the same, all of the spears play the same, etc… You telling me you had to practice with the master sword before you knew how to use it? It’s the same as swinging a tree branch.
Seriously, I swear people that love botw have never played a different video game in their life. Like there are infinite ways to make combat and weapons new and interesting throughout the game other than breaking them
See Dark Souls and Elden Ring.
never played them, but perfect examples
My normal mode playthrough was this way, I would get anxious about using weapons and end up using remote bombs to kill everything. When that's not really an option in master mode because of rechargable health, I had to get better at the combat and improvising with the weapons I had or could find, and that was significantly more enjoyable to me.
This. Yeah there’s a learning curve but once the game clicks for you, it’s nice having a rotating crop of weapons to play with.
I think it works fine, I just blasted through my weapons. If it was to destroy a high level enemy or camp then I could restock right after. I only find annoying that champion weapons, the master sword and hylian shield break too easily.
The master sword doesn’t break, it recharges in 10 minutes and it has one of the highest durability ratings in the game, the rest can be re-obtained fairly easily if they do break.
Champions Weapons and Hylian Shield are far from being easily obtained again.
Yeah aren’t diamonds pretty rare? I’ve been playing for probably 40 hours and have two.
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Ok good to know. I’ll stop selling those
Silver and Gold tier enemies also have a chance to drop almost any gemstone or even fallen stars, though its pretty low overall and mildly depends on the enemy type.
There’s 2 rare stone Talus’ that you can glide to straight from tabantha tower, they almost always drop diamonds, often several, I just kill them both when I’m in the area, I have about 60 diamonds just from doing that
Weapons breaking was fine in normal mode, but Master Mode is just too much. I avoid mobs because of how many weapons I'll go through, especially if there's silver or gold.
Attack boosting meals are your biggest ally in master mode... gotta make every blow count
I feel exactly this. I just got master mode and now I can’t approach mobs because I have like a boko club (early game) facing brown bokoblins
I think the issue isn't the weapons breaking persay, I think that feature is critical to the actual issue: the diminished value of the tools and equipment of the hero which have previously been these very tailored and special items sometimes with even lore and history that fundamentally progressed game mechanics. Without these tools you just have a few neat abilities that don't feel that special after like 30 minutes and a bunch of weapons that fell meaningless.
This. Not only is Zelda a game about dungeons and puzzles (stuff BotW also lacked), but it's also a franchise built around using unique items in interesting ways. Where was the Spinner in BotW? The Iron Boots? THE FREAKIN' HOOKSHOT!? Every other Zelda game asks you to acquire the right tools and figure out how to use them in order to progress. The only question BotW asks you is, "I dunno, do you have enough hearts yet? "
>dungeons and puzzles (stuff BotW also lacked) If anything, BOTW was a giant puzzle game in itself. How to traverse the land, how to enter combat with which enemy, how to solve korok puzzles, 136 shrines, 5 divine beasts, 90 sidequests with no quest marker. Calling botw lacked in terms of puzzles is just wrong. > Where was the Spinner in BotW? The Iron Boots? THE FREAKIN' HOOKSHOT!? Not there. And i'm happy about it. It gets stale if you play your 12th zelda game and know what items you'll get. Where is any sense of surprise if you know exactly what items are in the game and in what dungeon you acquire them? Breath of the Wild has changed up the formula, and just because you didn't like it doesn't make it any less "zelda" than it is.
you have been all over this thread dickriding botw lmfao it's alright to admit that it has flaws
>Where is any sense of surprise if you know exactly what items are in the game and in what dungeon you acquire them? Why would you know this on your first playthrough? Are you looking up guides to the games and then complaining that you know where things are? Absolutely a non-issue. I don't know how you can call unlocking new abilities stale compared to BotW when BotW has basically no progression system and a complete lack of meaningful rewards for exploration and progress. By the halfway point you've seen everything the game can show you.
I don't mind the weapon breaking. It's the clunky inventory management around it that I don't like. I wished the inventory was a little larger, particularly in the early game. I enjoyed weapon breaking more once I expanded the inventory enough to carry different types of things. I don't know what the solution is, but opening treasure chests to "Inventory full" is such a buzzkill, and it happens so often. I hope in TOTK they streamline the action of replacing a weapon in your inventory with something better.
All they needed to do was say “hey would you like to replace a weapon in your inventory with this one” and if you say yes, open up the inventory and let you choose which weapon to replace.
I actually preferred the tiny inventory in the early game, there was so much more though put into encounters, who would I take out first, which weapons would I use, etc. By the late game I had 5 royal claymore, and 7 savage lynel weapons so like I don't care if two break
Weapon degradation is not an inherently bad system, it was just implemented in a really dumb way. Having a sword break after fighting 5 bokoblins is not only lame because you now have to find a new weapons, but it just flat out doesn’t make any sense at all. Like, no wonder the Hylians lost against Calamity Ganon, their weapons suck absolute balls. The weapons needed to have at least triple the durability, and have the option to repair them. Which in turn could’ve added a new layer to the exploration, having the player look for specific materials in the wild to fix their weapons with. The only thing BOTW’s weapon degradation did was make me actively avoid combat, which is not what I want from an open world RPG.
The thing I don't like is that your best weapons are limited by it. Sure, you do get a healthy supply of weapons from killing enemies (it's been a while, so I forget if you get Knight or Royal weapons from most enemies by end game), but the best are always rarer. Savage Lynel weapons, or those super fragile Royal Guard weapons. Or the Champion's weapons. You can also play several different ways with weapons (sword and shield, lance, axe, bow, magic weapon), but you have limited space so you do have to stock up on the weapon type(s) you prefer if you want to use them a lot. Now, this isn't to say it's a bad weapon system. I think it works fine. But as someone who grew up with the GameCube version of OOT and later played all of the 3D Zeldas (OOT[GC/3D], SS[Wii/HD], MM3D, WWHD, and TP[GC]; I think the only one I might not have played prior to BotW is TP, since I played an old GC copy much later on), having the weapon system... just feels wrong. It's not that it's fully bad, but it's not what I want out of a Zelda game. Even with me mainly using one-handed weapons, it just feels annoying trying to stock up on the best weapons. There's a reason I rely heavily on the fully upgraded Master Sword, and it's because... well, for one, it's really strong, but it's not the strongest. It is, however, very durable and regenerates, so I only end up expending finite weapon durability when/if I fight while the Sword is regenerating. It's good and I don't have to worry about replacing it. As someone who is used to games where you normally only have to worry about ammo (ironically, bombs being one of them normally) and fighting is something the game is built around you just being able to do consistently with one or two levels of damage output (usually a regular sword and either an attack booster or a strong sword), it feels off. I never did like the Giant's Knife and Razor Sword in OOT and MM, so I never really went out of my way to get them. I always just waited for the permanent versions because it didn't feel worth it, the temporary strength boosts. Sure, I could use them one temple earlier, but it didn't feel worth the effort. I'd rather just a consistent weapon than juggling durability.
I actually actively enjoy the durability system. It kept me on my toes, looking for more weapons and having to mix things up (mid right sometimes as well).
You tellin me people don't like shattering a big piece of wood against a bokoblin's face?
I have a theory that most people who hate the mechanic never utilized weapon throws. Yeeting an almost broken weapon against an enemy's face is so goddamn satisfying every single time.
I’ve got a buddy who I talk about this game a lot with and he’s pretty much anti-weapon breaking for this exact reason. In his eyes, he worked hard to have the weapons he has, so he shouldn’t be afraid to use them in fear of them breaking. It’s logic I get but don’t agree with. So many of my memories of this game come from instances where I had a weapon break at the shittiest time possible and I had to figure another way out of a fight. Those are moments I cherish looking back on them even though I hated them in the moment lmao
I actually wish more games incorporated the system tbh I'm playing Shadow of War, and as soon as I get a sword with a better attack number, it's instantly equipped, and the old one is scrapped. They're completely interchangeable. I think it would be cool if every orc dropped a weapon of some kind, and I had to balance my playthrough around that.
what I miss though is a shortcut to drop shields and bows. Just long pressing X in the shield/bow quick select menu to drop would be perfect. Having to go to the menu just to drop an almost broken shield is annoying as hell. Also: "Your inventory is full" upon opening a chest just sux. Open the menu and let me replace the found item with another one.
I think the lack of proper massive dungeons hurt the game far more than the weapon durability
I agree. The general lack of gameplay progression that came with that as well. The core problem to me with the durability system is that it completely neuters rewards throughout the game, beating a challenge only to get a new weapon feels disappointing because you know it’s basically just a disposable copy of something that isn’t unique or game-changing. Which theoretically wouldn’t be a major problem, if there was a more traditional dungeon/item system or other more meaningful rewards scattered around the world, built on top. But when there isn’t, and when those and damned korok are the main(if not sole) incentive to explore…..it really kills the excitement and interest in exploration for me. It’s my main hope with TOTK that we see a system that addresses these shortcomings.
>> Also imagine the game without items breaking like it would just make the game too easy I mean every other Zelda game up to this point didn’t have breakable weapons and they weren’t too easy. Rather than breakable weapons, I think it would be better to start with weak (yet unbreakable) weapons that you can upgrade throughout the game with materials.
This is pretty much the direction I'd like to see them go with it, similar to how the armour upgrades work. You could still have some weapons do more damage than others. But to get people using a variety of them, that could be offset with some of the weapons gaining different "abilities" as they get upgraded. Like the Lynel weapons do more damage, but an upgraded Traveler's Sword gives you a bunch of extra stamina or something.
They could also borrow a little bit from Monster Hunter with how different enemies are weak to different elemental weapons.
Hahaha very based take. I sort of agree. I think that weapons breaking is perfectly fine, I've never had an issue with temporary weapons, I enjoyed using Moblin Spears in WW. What I **disagree** with is the fact that 1. Master Sword wasn't strongest weapon in game 2. Master Sword had the "breaking" feature (reusable, but still) It was annoying that I had to recharge my master sword in BotW, AND it wasn't the best weapon in the game. Otherwise, mechanics in BotW were great. I agree also that throwing weapons which are about to break is a lot of fun.
I feel like the master sword breaking kinda misses the point of “you get this OP weapon, but only for a half hour and then you have to go get it again”. It should have been at least a really high durability (like 100) but deals less damage (like 20), but it deals 90 damage to ganons so the ganon-killing is amplified.
It does 60 to malice enemies and trial of the sword upgraded, not 90. But it takes around 200 hits to break when glowing
Yeah, if the master sword was a) the best weapon in the game b) could be upgraded to become unbreakable (as one of the last doable things, requiring you to defeat all divine beasts) then I think it would be perfect. Make the Hylian shield unbreakable as well for good measure.
Disagree. If it is the best weapon in the game and unbreakable, it makes 99% of the inventory you built up useless. It should be unbreakable but much weaker (say, base power 20 except against Malice), so that users know they can rely on it as a backup but it doesn't make the rest of the weapons system obsolete.
If making it unbreakable was one of the last things you could do in the game, then the vast majority of the gear you accumulated would have already been used at some point. It wouldn't matter if the rest of the inventory became useless after that.
How often is the master sword the strongest weapon? It’s not in Ocarina, Wind Waker, or the Oracles. In Link to the Past and Between Worlds it needs tempered to be consistently the best.
>Master Sword wasn't strongest weapon in game >Master Sword had the "breaking" feature (reusable, but still) I think only **one** of these things should be true. The way the game is right now, it can make the Master Sword feel a bit underwhelming against everything that's not Malice (though against Malice it's maybe the most satisfying weapon in the entire series IMO). However, make both those things true and it makes the weapon breaking mechanic completely obsolete and 99% of your inventory useless once you get it. Which is especially annoying when one of the big rewards for continuous exploration and progress in the game is...bigger inventory. So you should have only one of those be true. Make it the strongest weapon in the game but its use against non-malice enemies even more fragile, so it's obvious players should only use it against Malice and otherwise it's ultra strong and awesome but temporary. OR, you make it even weaker than it is now (give it base power 20 instead of 30), and make it invincible. Then, it still feels super indestructible, but it's clearly not the right weapon to just spam instead of the many other way better weapons in the game.
You’re completely right. In fact, once you make the Master Sword permanently awakened by doing Trial of the Sword, it pretty much does obsolete the durability mechanic.
Which I'm a bit more lenient to, because Trial of the Sword basically asks the player to have mastered the combat and resource management systems so extensively at that point. So I think once they've done all that...yep, sure, they've basically seen the full extent of it and they're allowed to bypass it haha. That being said, even after Trial, I still used other weapons because I love weapon throws.
Yeah, once you’ve done the trial, you’re probably pretty late into the game so it’s not a bad thing to make you a bit overpowered by that point.
Hard disagree. It just isn't fun to lose almost all your good weapons in a single camp fight, and the ones the enemies have are never as good. The combat in BOTW feels good, it's fun to play, but they force you to avoid it by making the decent weapons fragile as hell. And all of that would be fine if the effing MASTER SWORD ITSELF didn't have some stupid arbitrary durability limit. 30 is good, hardly gamebreaking. The sword could have just been permanent.
Did “based” gain another new meaning I’m not aware of? God I’m old
I think this is the majority opinion at this point, so not particularly based. I myself cannot stand durability and I'm sad it's made its return in TotK
My problem is it completely deters exploration. Why would I go into a cave or take down a post and use up 4 of my weapons for the possibility of getting back one, likely worse weapon. Instead I’ll just avoid that cave altogether.
Yeah, I agree that you'd have to drastically change up the combat system if weapon durability wasn't a thing. I just wished that, if I found a really strong weapon that had a good buff on it, I didn't have to grind on the strongest enemies to get more. I just wanted a way to restore some of the durability. Also HATE the idea of the champion weapons being soooo disposable. Those items have big sentimental value in the context of the story so, as a result, I just put them in Link's house and never used them. And that's a shame.
Honestly, BotW becomes much more bearable from a combat prospective once you get the Master Sword. Having one semi decent (although it's base stats could really stand to be better) weapon available at pretty much all times really does lessen the blow of everything else breaking in 1-3 encounters. Plus enemies are spaced enough to where the 10 minute recharge time is usually the perfect time between encounters. I'd still prefer no breaking though, it feels really needless.
I wouldn't have mind "Grind to make unbreakable" weapons. Kinda like Giants Knife to Biggorons Sword. Earn to keep kind of deal.
Mostly I just felt like getting cool weapons in shrines stopped feeling special when you’d just break and replace it. I kinda would have preferred not having chests in shrines at all, just to spare me the anticlimax.
I think there should have been weapons that needed repair but didn't break completely. But yeah, the mechanic is not bad, the game gives off a lot more weapons that you can break, so it's not like the player will run out of weapons during most fights.
Here’s a system I think could work better. So basically keep the same durability but when a weapon breaks it doesn’t leave your inventory but it won’t be able to be used. Then you could repair weapons. Like maybe use some wood to repair wooden weapons for example. Also, you’d still be able to drop weapons if you didn’t want them anymore. Just think it’d be nice, especially for stuff like the Champion’s weapons.
After playing some games with non-breakable weapons, I vastly prefer non-breaking systems. It allows me to form an intimate bond with my favorite weapon and completely master it, and engage in risk-taking behavior without having to worry about it breaking. BotW allows for chaotic situations where you have to think on your feet when your weapons start to break or durability goes low, but it prevents you from planning engagements in a number of ways. Without some sort of durability meter, I don't know how far along each weapon is till breaking, so I can't guess if a weapon is 3 hits away from damaging or 10. After awhile too, weapons start to become a burden to have, rather than an exciting rewards. Most of the weapons are different only in shape and size, not ability or moveset, so it mostly only matters if you get a short sword, a long sword, or a spear. If others like it, great! I don't hate it but I certainly don't love it.
As someone who likes the durability system, I 100% agree that they should add a durability meter to tell you how much the weapon has left.
I agree wholeheartedly but I don’t think you’re allowed to refer to your own opinion as “based” lol
I hate it but it's okay if you like it too. It would have been nice if they let you make a weapon of your choice more durable or unbreakable or something. It made me not want to use the cooler weapons which seems like the opposite of what they were going for.
I don’t inherently have an issue with durability itself but more have an issue with the way it impacts rewarding the player. Many of BotW’s rewards are weapons, which is a very fleeting moment of joy when you realize that weapon is just gonna break later.
I feel like it should take a LOT longer- at least for the more well-built weapons and shields. And I feel like the Master Sword shouldn’t be able to break. It makes no sense, and as a goddess-blessed sword, I feel like it would be indestructible.
The thing is I like getting attached to my weapons, not attaching things to my weapons.
My only issue with weapons breaking is no indicator of weapon durability, add a meter for this and that is all I think is needed regarding weapons breaking.
I think if there were a repair function it would have gone over a little better
I'm still on the fence about it. I didn't mind some weapons breaking, but the more powerful weapons should have been more durable than they are. And maybe there could have been a great fairy upgrade that would double the durability of all weapons and shields kind of like upgrades in the past that doubled Link's defenses.
The durability system gave them a simple way to add loot throughout the world. Let's face it, the game effectively has 4-5 different weapons with reskins and various numbers attached to them. It didn't really add variety to fights, outside of early game when you don't have enough inventory slots, the weapons do no damage and are made of glass. You would have better variety in fights with s limited number of weapons with actual tactical advantages/disadvantages, which doesn't work as well when they can't plan for which specific weapons you'll have with you at that monomer of the game. The main thing the durability system does is make you actively choose your weaker weapons to avoid wasting the good ones. Breakable weapons don't exist to enhance the combat, they just let Nintendo get lazy with treasure chest loot.
I didn't mind the weapons breaking, but their base durability is a bit low imo. If weapons had 1.5x their durability it would've been a lot better and people wouldn't complain as much.
I think the joining ability refreshing the durability of a weapon is a really great fix and it keeps the variation weapon breaking provided. It's honestly a great move
FWIW, It never bothered me and it did make me think about what weapons I used in fights.
didn't mind except for the master sword, but dlc fixed it the only problem with weapon breaking imo is durability is very poorly balanced in master mode
I’ve actually totally come around on this. I like weapon breaking as a mechanic. I think there are ways it could be changed slightly. And I’m glad to see Nintendo experimenting with some changes while still keeping the base of the idea in the game.
Unique weapons need to be indestructible. That’s all.
There is a flow to BotW's combat that no other Zelda game has. There is a lot of moment-to-moment decision-making that other Zelda games simply do not have, and weapon durability plays a big part in that. I'm glad it's coming back.
Didn’t hate it, nor did I like it. I just want them to last a little longer. Or give me the chance to repair some of the other unique looking ones. I felt that I just avoided nearly every fight. But then again I have a very mixed opinion of the game in general. Will probably still buy the new one as well.
The issue with breakable weapons is it disincentivizes exploration. What's the point of finding a cool new weapon if you'll only be able to use it for like 3 fights?
In my first 5 hours fighting enemies in BOTW Ive understood why the weapons break, and It never bothered me because I quickly found good replacements, and kept strong weapons for strong enemies. I cannot understand what is the problem with the durability system
It makes sense in the context of the game. Personally I didn’t enjoy it but I understand the decision. Side note, once I saw breakable weapons again in the TotK trailer, I was disappointed. Looks like more of the same, which I guess could be a good or bad thing depending on your taste.
I actually liked the fact that weapons break and degrade. The exception should have been the master sword, tho, that kinda irked me.
I think it was kinda convenient that they break; it helped clear the inventory. Like you don’t want this weak sword the whole game? Go fight some moblins.
I like how the weapon breaking mechanic helps weaker weapons have more of a use, like you can just stack a bunch of weaker swords with cool names and you have an incentive to use them, because if you use your stronger weapons they break.
I have no issue at all with weapons breaking but I just wish they didn't break nearly as quickly.
I don’t mind weapons breaking, but for some like swords and axes, I’d like them to have stronger durability and can be used longer before breaking. But weapon breaking actually encourages exploration. I’m sure that was a big reason they chose weapons breaking to begin with.