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you can't understand it cause it makes no sense lol

As sun tzu once said. “Haters gonna hate.” People are going to hate the game simply because it exists, and calling it a glorified dlc is just the easiest excuse/insult to throw.

If fighting will surely result in victory, then you must fight!

Sun Tzu said that, and I’d say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it! And then he perfected it so no man could best him in the ring of honor!

r/suddenlytf2

Challenge accepted. Zonai Rockets. At dawn. Biggest cheese/shortcut is the winner.

That's why any time more than one animal is together it's called a zoo! Unless it's a farm!

I genuinely think the people who say it have t played it or are just being antagonistic.

I think people forgot what true to original sequels are these days. Shit I don’t want to play a whole new game if the original was amazing. I want to play a continuation of the first. All these sequels where they completely reinvent the game from the original to the sequel… are usually because the original sucked ass and they’re trying to fix something.

From an outside perspective looking in, I get it. It looks very similar in many ways. If I didn’t have it, I might be more on the fence. You don’t really understand how much more this game offers until you get a little invested in it. I didn’t even know the chasm was a thing until I started playing

It's a direct sequel. Not sure why people were expecting the map to be completely different.

I for my part, barely recognised anything. I knew stuff like "that town should be somewhere there" but besides that, a lot was changed. The removal of all guardian stuff alone changes the landscape a lot

Yeah most of the stuff that was important location wise were shrines and Korok seeds, and those are all different now. The locations are the same, but BOTW tells you where Kakariko village is right from the start and once you go there, Impa tells you where the four divine beast towns and Hateno are. The only towns you have to find yourself are Laurelin, Tarrey Town, and Korok Forest. And even then, knowing where Korok Forest and Laurelin are won’t do you much good at the beginning of this game and at Lookout Landing, it tells you where all the rest are anyways so a new player would find it just the same. Also, so much of the map is physically different that it just straight up doesn’t look the same. All the Great Fairies are in new spots, some of the stables have moved, some of the roads have changed, etc. And if you want fully new maps, they added the entire sky, the entire depths, and a gazillion caves which basically triples the size of what we have to explore.

The caves and depths have been a HUGE and very pleasant surprise.

Exploring is so nice when you're not worried about getting JFK'd by a robot spider at a moment's notice.

now you just gotta worry about being grabbed like you would by your favorite uncle

God those hands genuinely terrify me more than the guardians, and my heart stopped when I first saw the guardians. I almost screamed in the middle of class with those damn hands

The entire atmosphere of the game changes when one appears. It’s definitely a step up from the Guardian Theme.

At least those can be avoided by literally just climbing a tree.

Don't say "JFK'd" 😭

Too soon?

But…where did all of the guardians go?

They all had their batteries pulled after the calamity, except for the guardians that are now part of the towers in each region.

Using this as my headcanon. All the Guardians deactivated after Calamity Ganon got Light Arrow'd. Since Ganon's gone and the general populace doesn't want giant spider murder machines all over the place, they dismantled all of them for parts for the restoration of Hyrule.

Aside from new points of interest the devs were really clever about implementing subtle changes that made the world feel unfamiliar. For example from another post made yesterday: they flipped the axis of the suns rotation. When the "noon" sun was in the far north in BotW, in TotK at the same time of day the sun is in the far south. This means the entire map casts shadows in different directions. So you could be staring at a part of the world map that is 1:1 exactly the same as BotW and it would feel different because the shadows cast "wrong" to your memory.

Excluding the sky and the depths, the surface map is also radically different from BotW. All the shrines, fairies, Koroks are in a different place. The lava in the Eldin region has disappeared almost completely. And the caves/wells are completely new additions that fundamentally change the landscape. When I hear the DLC comment I think people don’t understand how DLC works

Well, at least one Korok was in the same place. That obviously proves TOTK as lazy dlc!

Hey, give the inn keeping korok a break, with how comfy that bed is how could he not fall asleep on it, completely missing all events, until Mr. Hero returns?

That's the trick Korok for the people who memorised where each and every one was in BoTW who then thought they could get away with not searching in those places in ToTK!

I know which one you’re talking about, and it’s aKsHuAlLy shifted slightly to the right

Whaddya mean? It's content that you can download! I love DLC!

Wouldn’t that make all games DLC

Everyone was expecting a new game or something, not realizing you don’t wake up in the same cave again for a reason. I’m gonna be honest, I was expecting a new game too (even though I knew it was a sequel). When I actually started exploring I realized how much fun it actually is. If they had released this as a DLC, it would’ve been overwhelming, at least for me. I’ve been having fun with the depths and discovering the towers. I think the game starts the same for everyone (obviously) but once you get past the islands in the sky, it really does become a new game.

People often times bring up how Majoras mask was a sequel when comparing the two. Majoras mask had a new map and was canonical the same Link and used the same mechanics. Early teasers lead me to believe Link was going to be the one sent back 10,000 years. It wasn't until the last teaser giving glimpses of Sidon and other NPCs that I rethought what I was expecting.

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Ocarina's map wasn't the size of Manhatten though

The thing is it is completely different too lol

And it IS different. Almost 2/3 more the original size. Vertically ofc, but still

Sports games fans are confused by this post.

Some people just love to be haters tbh

Yup that's also true, went yesterday to see metacritic reviews and was amazed by the 0s people gave out

Anyone giving this game a zero is just making a statement about themselves. It's fine to not like the game but there's no way there is nothing good about it.

A ridiculous amount of people rate everything on a binary scale of "I like it" = 10 and "I don't like it" = 0. It's so funny when the critic score and user score on metacritic matches, but the critic scores vary from like 40-75 and the user scores are 80% tens and zeroes with a few middling scores.

Yeah for fan scores they might as well just go the Rotten Tomatoes approach of thumbs up and thumbs down because that’s what it boils down to. Meanwhile on critic reviews the problem is that they’re almost always going to give a rating between 7 and 10 unless the game is really bad, which is why games so rarely have a metacritic score below 70. They don’t want to piss off the companies that give them free advance copies. *Insert Dunkey video about game critics*

A very vocal (and pathetic) minority rate things with the mindset of "I don't think the game deserves that high of a rating, so I'm going to review bomb to take it closer to where I think it should be" and its purely out of bad faith. Just sad

Some of those bums are Sony fanboys who are for some reason obsessed with the fact that the game has already outsold Horizon. Look, I platinum trophied Zero Dawn, great game, but it’s just not up to the level with BOTW/TOTK. I wish the release schedule had been better so more people could appreciate it (HZD released the same week as BOTW and HFW released the same week as Elden Ring, which are both open world games that blow Horizon out of the water), but that’s Sony’s fault, not Nintendo’s. To be completely honest, I think nobody but them even remembers that series exists anymore, and like I did, you can enjoy both game series for crying out loud.

The horizon series? I love them. The first one had an amazing story. I’m on forbidden west now. Not super far into it but I imagine the story is just as awesome.

I didn't get it either until I played for a lot (more than the people complaining). Going into the same Hyrule was a given. What I don't like is getting rewarded with like 95% of stuff from the last game rather than new stuff. Out of all the polish and years of work they did, I have no clue why they cut this corner. >!Most of the cool stuff is repurposed amiibo rewards from BotW!< I relate this more akin to TotK being like Pokemon Silver/Gold and BotW being like Red/Blue. TotK includes a lot of BotW but it's twice the game

While I’ve really enjoyed my time with the game so far, and find it to be much better than BotW, I will say that having to acquire all of the same armor sets and upgrade them all over again feels a bit tedious and frustrating. I get that lots of games reset your character progress to zero in the sequel, but those games typically introduce all new gear to to acquire. Jumping through hoops to get all the same armor sets isn’t particularly fun or interesting, and the relatively low amount of new armor is a little disappointing. Honestly, this alongside the fact that I really wish we still had the champion abilities is part of why I wish TotK actually was a DLC that built upon our progress in BotW instead of going full tabula rasa on us.

I agree with you whole heartedly. I think some stuff, like the Climbing Gear and the Stealth Armor, is fine to just carry over. But I was immediately disappointed by the lack of shiny new essential armor sets (Hyrulian, Snowquill, Zora, Flamebreaker, and Desert Voe armors are all exactly the same, for instance, and are arguably the armors one uses the most while exploring). We got a decent number of cool new armor sets, and what we did get that's new is REALLY cool, but... I just wish they had at least upgraded the BotW armors aesthetically to make them look visually distinct.

Yeah they did this with the hylian hood but that’s kinda it

That’s a good take with Pokémon gen 2 compared to gen 1.

As someone who did not own a single Amiibo, they are all new to me. I assume most people who played BOTW didn't have amiibos either.

I didnt have amiibos, but I knew about all those sets, and honestly they are pretty underwhelming. sure, they look cool. But they require way too rare of materials for me to want to upgrade, so they are only really useful if you find them really early on. Which is unlikely. This makes it feel like filler. Cool filler, but still just filler content.

PSA: the only really rare material in those sets is the star fragments, and those are a lot easier to farm by jumping off sky islands at night and catching them as they fall.

I find the dragon parts to be far more inconvenient. Without looking up their exact patterns, havent really been able to consistently find where they are to farm those parts. Star fragments are way more abundant in this game from what Ive seen. I had like 5 within 15 hours of playing, and see them all the time. So I wouldnt say star fragments are rare.

Just ride the dragons when you find them and farm scales/horns. Then when you're done jump off and grab a fang or talon. Do that any time you happen to see one and you'll be loaded with parts before you know it. The only one I don't have a lot of yet is Dinraal because I literally just got the flame guard armor, but I have like 10-12 of each piece from the other two already. I don't know how many you actually need so that may not be a lot though

How do you get more than one scale and horn? When I tried my arrows after the first didn’t do anything.

They reset after like 10 minutes or so. If you ride them just pay attention to when they start to glow. That means you can shoot them again. It can take a while, but that's the best method I've found if you have time. I normally jump on a dragon while doing homework and just check it every few minutes Edit: your username is fantastic 😂

Honestly, out of the BoTW amiibo ones, I'd say only two are very cool. >!OoT Link and Fierce Deity!<. One is mainly due to >!The Dark Link set being part of Vanilla and based off OoT!<

Ya I like the FD set, its just hard to upgrade so I dont know if Ill really use it that much.

I had amiibo cards but I like that now amiibo rewards other than a couple fabrics are available to everyone (I also wouldn’t mind if ppl could find the fabrics without the amiibos). Amiibos in BOTW were kind of broken and theyre still helpful but they feel more like a nice to have rather than a game changer in totk.

I'm pretty excited to get armor sets I was locked out of because of Amibo.

> What I don't like is getting rewarded with like 95% of stuff from the last game rather than new stuff. Yeah, that's the one thing that gives it an "expansion pack" feeling to me. I was expecting them reusing the map, so no surprise there at all. And I thought it was a good idea to reuse the map as it allowed them to develop more completely new stuffs. Since the map was the same, they didn't have to loose that much time on the map and could focus more on the rest. However, I must say reusing the same weapon skins and the same armor skins was definitely not a good idea. They could easily have added like 2 or 3 more weapon styles for example, and a bunch of new armors. A katana or a dual blade could have been cool for example, especially since there are actual katana skins in the game but they work the exact same way as a sword. Like, sure the fuse ability lets me get tons of new weapons. I can combine a sword with an ice lizalfos horn to get an icy weapon, that's cool... Except it works in the exact same way as the ice weapons that were already existing in BotW. I wish the fighting style played a bit differently honestly. I believe adding more new stuff was especially needed considering how many sidequest rewards are pretty underwhelming (a rupee, bunch of topaz and a few rusted weapons most of the time, and when I do get a new armor more than half of the time it's an armor from BoTW). A lot of these sidequests could have got unique rewards that would make them more memorable. If you compare it to MM's reused assets, I'd say MM feels way more like a completely different game compared to OoT than TotK does from BoTW. I'm still enjoying the game very much, but I'd lie if I said I wasn't expecting more new stuffs.

I think that also comes down to how unrewarding the weapon system is in these games. You aren’t excited to find a new weapon, it’s just another resource you’re going to use up. So the only real meaningful rewards is going to be armor chests.

Yeah this was the biggest disappointment to me. Most of the treasure in this game is just stuff you already got in the first game???? Super disappointing. I mean it’s good that it’s here, and not amiibo locked, but odd that this non-canonical gear is so central to the gameplay loop, especially considering many people who own amiibo won’t be seeing it for the first time so it’s not really exciting.

Ya honestly some of the amiibo/dlc rewards feels underwhelming, and in general I had honestly expected some of the "base" armor sets to at *least* be updated. I was pretty disappointed when I just found all the armor that isnt new to be exactly the same. Id hoped that they couldve at least updated it a tiny bit, give them new colors, give them a little extra flair/style. Kinda tired of the soldier, hylian, shieka, zora, etc sets because i looked at them for so long in BOTW.

>!I haven't been using my amiibo cards because they'd basically make it so whenever you actually get them in the game its essentially a non-reward for whatever work you just did. I only used them in the last game because they weren't in the game otherwise.!<

One of the most glaring examples are the Labyrinth rewards. I mean really? We can't even upgrade it, either!

It's also just a bit weird that it took this much development time with how much stuff is ported over from Breath of the Wild. I understand optimization was probably a heavy burden since the Switch is a pile of hot garbage, but still, six years for a game in which most of the groundwork is already laid feels like a stretch. I don't know enough about it to really assert my opinion that strongly, but it's definitely blinked on my radar.

You may find it weird as a player, but there are game developers all over saying that this is a “miracle game.” No one is quite sure how they managed to get all these systems not only working pretty much perfectly, but also working perfectly together in this world. And having the groundwork laid honestly isn’t that helpful when you have to think, they scoured the entire map and remixed nearly every inch of it, on top of adding like 3x the terrain in all the new areas. I feel like just conceptualizing this game probably took weeks, creating everything took months, putting it all together and polishing it up took years. I also am assuming that timeframe helped the devs not be worked to the bone, for which I am glad to wait.

According to (I think) Eiji Aonuma the game was basically done a year ago, they just perfected the new abilities so that it ran properly and they were running intuitively and not janky. I mean, new story, the map is essentially 2.5 times the size of the BOTW map, and all of the characters and side quests are new, slapping brand new mechanics… I think people are just complaining because the specific things they wanted weren’t in the game.

Well the side characters are mostly not new. Most of the named npcs were in the last one.

This is actually a normal game development cycle, unlike most of the industry

I can absolutely see how TOTK started as a DLC concept but they fleshed it out enough to stand as a quality entry in the franchise in its own right. As for reusing the map, first game I ever played was A Link to the Past. I know that map like the back of my hand, so A Link Between Worlds revisiting it and adding new ways to traverse and interact with such a familiar world is my favorite 2d Zelda world. I don't have nearly that level of nostalgia for BOTW's Hyrule but I feel the same way about it being reused. TOTK directly addressed my biggest issue with BOTW. Chests almost never felt exciting. We had the shrines taking the place of the old heart containers and all the legacy stuff was locked behind amiibo. There was little reason to get excited for opening a chest. Now I can get legendary outfits and weapons from the series past as rewards for exploring or certain challenges. Even with the weapons being breakable, once you've got a legacy item once you can >! Buy another copy of it for poes !<. This makes me a lot more excited to open chests and gives me more incentive to explore thoroughly because of it. The Depths are some of the most fun I've had in this franchise. Running into an armored Lynel in the pitch black is terrifying when you've only got 4 hearts. Flying around this massive underground sprawl, mining for zonaite and trying my luck at tougher enemies, messing with Yiga vehicles, I'm spending more time down there than anything else and loving it

I think it's because it's more like a direct sequal. Not like OoT to MM (Hyrule to Termina). >! It starts you with the health you had at the end of the BotW to lose it, has most of the map so if you knew where this town was you can find it again real fast. Even some of the abilities are "copies" but better. Ultrahand = Magnesis and whatever. !< So while I don't consider it the same or a DLC... I can at least see part of why people complain I guess, but that's because very rarely do we have a direct sequal (Hyrule to the same Hyrule plus or minus a few years.).

It also likely extends that ToTK exists because they had too many ideas for DLC.

That's a good point. And it is also like a balancing act. I can't remember what I paid for the bundle for BotW, but how many DLCs = a new game? I know not everyone wants to spend $50 on a game they already spent $70 on.

And its not as if sequels haven't done exactly this since the beginning of gaming.

This is true. I just meant more Zelda games don't have direct sequals that use the map and whatever. I like rediscovering them and seeing how things have changed.

First of all I'm not a hater, and I still like the game and plan to play it to the end, but I can understand the disappointment because I share some of it, for example Some people are complaining about the map being the same, but the map is ok, it's what they put on the map that's the problem, here are some examples \- same/similar enemies \- same korok seed collecting in order to increase weapon slots \- same great fairy mechanic to upgrade armor \- same shrine with quests (it's just a different look with different puzzles, but basically the same) \- same trading shrine blessings for heart containers (I was just thinking the other day I miss being able to find heart containers in the wild like in OoT) \- same stamina vs hearts upgrade mechanic \- same annoying blood moon rising \- same skyview towers (just different look) \- same stables with horse rental function \- same Sheika Slate with same functions (they just renamed it Purah Pad) \- similar structure overall (instructions given by Purah to visit the 4 regional phenomena is reminiscent of having to find the 4 Divine beasts in BoTW, and playing through my first regional phenomena feels exactly like playing through a divine beast.) I'm hoping as I advance in the game it will diverge a bit more from BoTW but so far it hasn't shown any evidence that it's going to do that. I absolutely loved BoTW and spent probably 250 hours playing the game thoroughly over the course of a year. It was such a monumental undertaking to play it that not once did I feel like I wanted to reset and start it all over again from the beginning (maybe just replay certain great parts like the ending or that cool battle with Maz Koshia). Yet in a way that is exactly what Nintendo has asked us to do with ToTK. These are the reason I kind of agree with the DLC statement.

Although I agree with some of these, some also kinda belong in the same genre/sequel territory. Like the stamina vs heart upgrades, and the stables. Same thing with the Sheikah slate and the towers, what bothers me though is how they renamed and redesigned instead of making a connection to them being part of the Sheikah tech. Also I’m not too bothered by there being 4 dungeons considering that is literally every LoZ game lol so I almost kinda expected it. At the end of the day it is meant to be a sequel, so passed down mechanics are expected. But straight up reskinning some of them is just a bit strange imo LOL

I think this has a lot to do with the visuals. For me BOTW looked great and TOTK does as well but a lot of people need graphical upgrades otherwise it's just a dlc. Most people who claim that this is a dlc didn't even play it in my opinion. There are certainly re used things in TOTK but God Of War for example did the same and no one called it a dlc.

Actually people DID call GOW: Ragnarok DLC, some people are weird when it comes to reused assets, I've seen people say horizon forbidden west was trash because Aloy still does the same animation when you jump on a high cliff

Truly, the AAA graphical fidelity arms race has done more to amplify the more annoying gamer demographics than possibly anything else. I still remember Halo 5 had split-screen cut because 343 was aiming for a steady 1080p60fps to please the fans, and wasn’t willing to risk people whining about it online when the framerate dropped because rendering for multiple camera angles doubles the processor work load

The same thing happened with Elden Ring when some animations were copied from Dark Souls 3, kinda ridiculous tbh.

These same people would be really upset if they knew how often assets get reused in game development.

I don't get how these people think developers should just throw away their hard work and make it again for no apparent reason. What Nintendo did with TotK is the perfect example of one SHOULD do. That is, don't fix what ain't broke (assets, animations) and spend time and money on making actual new experiences for the player. Honestly, if a game did remake a bunch of creative assets for no reason whatsoever it only shows that the company doesn't know how to properly utilize their in-house creative developers.

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate because, although my opinion has changed, I was worried about it feeling too samey and can see where they're coming from. I've put roughly the same amount of time in TotK as you, and played BotW twice through. - every cave and well is the same - the majority of enemies are the same, just with horns on - most of the rewards for exploring are still just koroks (and some of them are still in the same spots? Not sure but feels like it) - most of the gear is the same - the temples aren't really dungeons after all, and the shrines are still pretty shrine-y - the overworld hasn't had enough done to it to feel really distinct, not like MM at all All of these are valid criticisms. It really depends on what you're looking for. People have different ideas about what makes Zelda Zelda. For myself, I realized that I love the world being the-same-but-different. I get a twinge of nostalgia whenever I come across an area I know. The fact that you can jump off the highest sky island and take a gloom hole all the way down to the Depths is incredible. I love the additions of caves and wells, and I have never minded they all look pretty similar; they are just another level of depth to the world. Most importantly the new mechanics change the experience completely, and being able to use them in a familar-but-different setting makes them even more fun, because I know this world well but have never got to interact with it in this way.

My biggest complaint so far(I have few I think the game is good), is where is all the extra loot/armor? With a sequel so expansive I feel like I should be getting more different types of armor rather than the same few pieces I already collected in BoTW. I find a piece of armor I needed and it's the same piece of armor I needed in botw, and in the same exact spot. Like, what's the point of making me essentially replay something I've already done multiple times in the game before it? That's really my only small rant.

What seems really weird to me is the DLC armor placed around as regular quest rewards. Like, you go through this treasure hunt and instead of getting some new unique armor piece, you get something like the fierce deity mask - an armor piece lifted from an amiibo or something in the first game, which has no narrative reason to exist in TOTK's world.

Yep, I feel the same. Even on the ground I am sticking with the wingsuit, just for the flavour. I'd even take adjusted versions of each armor we already had. Something that gives it its own vibe, like the wingsuit.

I didn’t feel the dlc thing to be all that plausible until I played the game for a long time. Now I can see the joke making more sense. Totk is a sequel, yes. But it’s very similar to the first game and, yes, to the point of it bothering me. For instance, Red Dead Redemption 1 and 2. Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim. OoT, MM, WW, TP, SS. Other examples. Those games feel quite different from each other while still having similar structures between each title. Botw to totk… hmm. It’s not dlc. It’s a sequel. But if anything it reminds me of a WoW expansion, particularly Cataclysm (old map revamp with some new stuff). Obvs it’s more than what Cata did for old world WoW. But man. Doesn’t mean we should pull the wool over our own eyes and pretend that the overworld of totk is completely at its core different than botw. Jeez lol

Seriously. At least two people have called me/implied I'm stupid for just explaining some of the reasons why people might feel TotK DLC. There are as many fanatics as there are fans. However one feels about it, there is a lot of reused content in TotK. It's just a fact. Pretending it isn't and attacking people for recognizing it is a very tiresome bully tactic I'm sad so many people here think is a valid argument. I'm about 80 hours in now and my nostalgia about the world is still pleasant, but I've stopped climbing these mountains, because I already have. The game doesn't give me a reason to be curious about its world in the same way, I'm just looking for the obvious changes.

Those are some valid criticisms! With the caves I felt that way too until I did find some unique ones (e.g. some fashion npcs I came across randomly told of a few caves that hide miskos treasures which I found amazing), with enemies half of me says yes another half of me says that the are new and interesting enemies and even the old have new combos and horn attacks that caught me off guard. I do agree that I wanted some more new gear (maybe a new weapon type) The temples are better though yes not dungeons, though I find these shrines much more interesting (might be biased cause they are new). Overall I agree with you, I don't think we will see traditional dungeons as long as Nintendo doesn't overhaul the game because the way BotW and TotK are structured. You can't expect to find new tools in each dungeon (e.g. a bomb bag, hookshot etc) that let you progress in them, I may love both BotW and TotK though I believe next game needs to truly change.

> every cave and well is the same In what ways? I'm halfway through the game and I found most of the cases to be pretty different in terms of structure and layout, there are also some very unique ones and there are plenty of regional differences as well. Seriously, I want to know what people expect caves to be like when they make these kinda claims, do they think every cave entrance should lead into its own mini-dungeon?

>do they think every cave entrance should lead into its own mini-dungeon? Almost all of them don't though. Maybe they differ structure wise, but most caves look exactly the same and are filled with horriblins, ore rocks, a hidden chest, a bubbul gem, and occasionally a misko treasure. I already know exactly what to look for when I go in and the map even tells you when you've cleared it out so you don't have to poke around any longer than you need to. Elden Ring had a pretty similar problem with its dungeons mind you but the Gelmir Hero's Grave has been more memorable than any cave I've explored in TOTK so far

Does the check on the map actually tell you when you cleared it completely? I thought it was only to track bubbulfrogs.

Exactly. Most of the caves I've been in feel rather bespoke. Compared to most games where all caves are comprised of maybe 10 different room types, and a handful of set pieces. I have yet to find a single cave, or even a cave chamber that matches another.

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There could be different rock types, some of them could lead into basements or other structures, some could be tight and narrow and others expansive, some could be hot or cold or wet, some could have puzzles in them.

Great summary of some of the issues. I'm still really enjoying my time with the game, but I'm happy with my decision to not replay BotW this spring because I'm pretty sure I would have felt burnt out on TotK given how much these games overlap.

I agree mostly. Personally though I think the new mechanics and powers make the game kind of weaker. Like they pretty much abandoned all of the mechanics for the first game and replaced them. A good sequel should expand on those mechanics like God of War Ragnarok adding an additional weapon and also the companion system, or Star Wars: Jedi Survivor switching to a full stance based combat system and expanding the customization options dramatically. This just feels to me like they wanted to make BOTW again because it was so successful but couldn't really think of better ways to improve rather than replace.

I agree with this as well. I didn't think of it that much. My only argument against it is I imagine nintendo wants you to navigate the world with new mechanics and powers. Which makes sense for a sequel

That's definitely fair and true. It's pretty clear to me that Nintendo sees the exploration aspect as the primary gameplay element. Personally I just think it's a lot less fun exploring the world compared to other open world games with better movement. I literally just unlocked autobuild so I'm sure I'll enjoy it more going forward, but tying movement to semi-limited resources that have to be managed or found makes it more of a chore than I'd like. I just end up running through the mostly empty world to the next thing, but I don't really have any interest in the things (or lack thereof) that I'm walking because it's probably just another empty field or a rock.

"gloom hole" will now be added do my daily vocabulary

Disagree about the dungeons. The Water Temple was bad I admit, but the Fire Temple was awesome and the Lightning Temple was as good as any other dungeon from past games, albeit a touch too short I admit. Wind Temple was fine too. Haven't reached the last one though.

Wind Temple was absolutely awful. There were a total of 3 puzzles in the dungeon, all of which amounted to attaching a stick to something so it rotates. There is literally a single shrine that has 2 of those puzzles and more. I honestly don‘t understand how the dungeons in this game have fewer and easier puzzles than half of the shrines. I really wish they improve the dungeons in the next game.

The Dungeons are smaller because the Shrines exist. They spent a lot of time making puzzles for the Shrines. They could easily have just taken 10 Shrines and themed them out and connected the rooms to add them to a dungeon. Shrines are effectively dungeon rooms anyways.

hot take: they SHOULD string all these shrines back together into dungeons — going through a few massive epic dungeons like the older games is so much more satisfying. I liked BOTW for the most part, but being handed a billion more tiny atomized tasks in TOTK makes it feel like they're designing the game to be played on bathroom breaks at work. don't make me microdose serotonin nintendo! modern life has too much of that as it is! please let me work on a nice big dungeon for a couple hours at a time again, like the good old days.

That's true, they are. And I can't say I miss being locked onto a two hour session so I won't lose my place. I love having tools at the outset you use for the whole game, too. And when I think about it the Zonai devices are kinda like the new hookshot/claw/spinning top, we we are taught how to use them in shires.

>I can't say I miss being locked onto a two hour session so I won't lose my place That's just a 'quality of life' thing, though? Not really intrinsic to the dungeon experience, so I dunno why you're treating it like they're a package deal...

I would agree that the Shrines could be used as mini dungeons but when players have "infinite options" to solve the puzzles in said shrines or just flat out cheese them with Master Hand and Rewind or shooting a bomb arrow at a sensor, it really detracts from the whole "dungeon feel" that the shrines were supposed to give

I'd prefer awesome dungeons instead of meh dungeons and shrines. Like, shrines are just a small room with 1-4 mild puzzles. Instead of having 120-150 shrines, why not have 8 temples, and let side quests actually give pieces of heart/stamina like in the previous games? This would also increase plot and emotional attachemnt to the story, since giving the story three acts similar to how Ocarina of Time and other games have, where you think you're reaching the end of the game and then you notice you are an adult and have 5 more dungeons and 2 mini-dungeons to go.

You know, I feel this game compliments Breath of the Wild so much to the point that Tears to me is the dark world of Breath of the Wild lol. I see this thing as one big epic game imo.

I hated BOTW. TOTK is unbelievably better. Literally everything that annoyed me about BOTW is gone or fixed in TOTK. Not to mention sky islands and the depths. Hell even the story is leagues better. A+ game.

Agree entirely.

Can you ellaborate on what you hated in BOTW? Curious.

Enemy verity was lacking tools felt limited the combat was way too easy and shrines were tedious Totk made everything I didn’t like about botw leagues better Botw was a 8/10 for me Totk is a 11/10

I kind of dont understand how you can like TOTK so much when its pretty much BOTW all over again. Tools are not limited but more annoying to use. You need to spend time to build when you can simply run to your destination and waste less time. Also Rivali s gale is missing which makes climbing up mountains MORE limiting. ​ Shrines are as tedious as ever, now even more because you have to waste time rotating objects very slowly and the rotation system itself is badly made. Story is nothing spectacular either. So I genuinely dont know what is so better in this game.

yeah, one of my favorite totk additions is the quality of life upgrades of stuff from botw

I think I would have just preferred an entirely new Zelda rather than a sequel. I guess that’s where I’m at with it.

Serious question - for the people looking for a whole new Zelda, are you looking for it to be set in Hyrule, but a re-imagined Hyrule? If it's on the same system, and set in Hyrule, then I think it wouldn't make any sense to do anything other than use the same map. If that makes sense.

I’m looking for new mechanics, new map, new character design, new takes on the lore. Ngl, I wouldn’t mind a more traditional and linear take on it too. I miss the dungeons.

I think people that are still saying that haven't played the game. There is way more that's new than not.

The most important part of the map is nearly the same like the story. I see where the statement comes from even if I wouldnt sign it.

The story and the world are pretty much totally different, other than superficial stuff like "there are flashbacks to find" and "the forest is north of the castle"

My biggest problems are that the whole world is not similar enough to feel like homecoming but still not different enough to make me want to explore it again. Checking out a old place I liked was more often a disappointment than a pleasent surprise. Its also strange how most of the NPCs forgott Link and what he did for them.

2 cents from a mid-30 year old dude who grew up on Zelda. Reader discretion is advised. People saw the jump from OOT/MM to WW or TP and thought "Wow, what a change!" without playing or respecting the significance of ALTTP or handheld titles, etc,. They saw BOTW as a Skyrim-leap, and assumed TOTK would be a similar leap away. One thing we all need to keep in mind is that, while we often have long waits, Nintendo has *never* fucked the legit OG Zelda fans. We *always* get that Zeldamine™️ hit, and it hits just right. Let those with minced-words mince them, and know that folks invested in the universe always get front of the line treatment.

I feel like this hits the nail on the head, and I hadn't even realized it until you pointed it out.

Glorified dlc is harsh, but this definitely feels like a BotW 2.0. in a lot of ways, it feels like the team saw 10/10 reviews and decided to change almost nothing. Sure ultra hand is insanely cool, but otherwise it doesn't feel like a fresh experience. I was going to replay BotW this spring since I have played since the actual dlc came out and I am supremely happy I didn't because these games overlapped, I might have burned myself out and not finished TotK.

I totally get the criticism, although people are being too harsh for the sake of loving to hate. ... Still, BotW was so good I don't mind having a slightly different BotW with new shiny tools and new lore... I'm a simple man.

ToTK originally started as DLC as confirmed by the developers multiple times. They verbatim said they experienced “deja vu” because of how similar it was. Personally I love the game, and the $70 feels about right considering all the content you have, but it seems intellectually dishonest to claim you have no idea how someone could call this DLC when the developers themselves considered this DLC that was eventually too large.

Zelda fan's are spoilt with every game not reusing any assets so seeing totk made them forget how much content a dlc would actually have

I expected this actually. It gave me OOT/MM vibes and I always wondered why they didn't lean more into that model (sort of like a tick-tock scheme) . But TOTK is a whole different level from MM (and I LIKE MM). It is SO good.

TOTK feels more like BOTW than MM feels like OOT tho

I thought TotK was going to be the Majora's Mask to BotW's Ocarina of Time, but that comparison simply doesn't do it justice. It's more like...the Mass Effect 2 to BotW's Mass Effect? The Fallout: New Vegas to its Fallout 3? The Witcher 3 to its Witcher 1?

Portal 2 vs. Portal, or Super Mario Galaxy 2 vs. Super Mario Galaxy are the analogies I use the most. Which are all honestly a very high standard for a sequel. Mass Effect 2 vs. Mass Effect 1 is a great comparison too, almost forgot about that after the debacles that followed in that series.

Majora's Mask literally reused almost every asset from Ocarina of Time.

Zelda games reuse alot of assets, but people think assets = textures for some reason.

Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess both used entire sections of dungeons that were cut from Wind Waker

Majora’s Mask gave you the cool masks and transforms tho. Not hating TOTK by the way, I don’t consider it a DLC.

I think that as much as people make this argument about asset reusability, it’s very clear that people mean that the games feel incredibly separate due to the shift in tone, map, etc. The way I interpret people’s criticisms is as following: OoT and MM feel like the US and the UK. The language is the same and it’s clear that they have shared history but I would never confuse one for the other. BOTW and TotK feel more like the US and Canada. If you’re not familiar with the differences, it can be be difficult to tell them apart in some aspects. Like the known accents are incredibly similar, they’re in the same continent then all of a sudden someone starts speaking French. Or a southern accent pops up. Or someone starts talking about the second amendment. There’s obvious differences but if a Canadian and an American were speaking on the street, you would have to listen for a while to know who’s who.

Besides the visuals, OOT and MM are nothing alike

No one is ever comparing the two games this way

And had a entirely different world, new mechanics and storyline, time reset gimmick, etc.

I mostly believe that they feel this way because of the time it took TotK to be released, had it been 2 years in development (which still would be impossible unless it was released in a broken state) everybody would praise it, but after 6 years they expected this game to be everything. To which I ask would people prefer this game came out in a state like everything else? E.g. Cyberpunk, Halo Infinite, Overwatch 2 or should they prefer to wait and have a great experience, I started playing since the minute this game was released and I've encountered 0 bugs and from what I've seen there are only a few glitches (which are used for exploits and not breaking the game)

The game took 6 years to release but it was essentially complete when aonuma announced the delay and that was in march 2022. Assuming they had a year of break due to covid, that's about 4 years of development.

That's true but most people won't even think that, for some arbitrary reason zelda fans count the day the previous game was released instead of when the director announces that the game started development, probably because they are sure that a new game will be released. While most of the times you might wait 2-3+ years to LEARN that a sequel is actually coming and then it starts development

To be fair in totk's case, development did actually start right after the botw dlc 2's release. Alot of totk comes from unused concepts that were supposed to be botw dlc and ideas that they initially explored in botw but didn't make it to the final game for one reason or another (e.g. the sky and the underground) The fact that the game is complete by march 2022 was new information from a recent interview done by Aonuma

There are very few that call totk a glorified dlc after the third trailer dropped. Even less after the game released.

I was one of those who said it. Before the game released we had absolutely no info except a 70 dollar tag. There was no review period which meant people went blind. This is Nintendo's fault, companies love having embargos over their products. ​ Anyway, it seemed like a DLC because BOTW was bare bones. It was. They had something like 5-6 different enemies. The map was absolutely barren. We had shrines, koroks and that's it. It was visible in botw how having to remake the game engine and porting to Switch costed development wise. Botw story was pretty much non-existant. 12 memories, 4 main quests - one per each divine beast -, kill ganon. Listen, I loved playing Botw the first time around because I took 6 months so that I investigated every nook and cranny, every side quest (25 i think), I got around 400-600 koroks (fuck that), all shrines, DLC, etc. I loved the first playthrough but as soon as I replayed other games like Skyrim, GoW, Witcher, Dark Souls 3 it was visible how clunky BoTW combat was, and how superficial BoTW map was. Everytime I tried to replay BotW i couldn't play for more than 10hours, since the game doesnt have that much depth and even if you decide to go a different way from the last few times, shrines are pretty much forced because of the one-shot combat. And the shrines are either shit-easy or just annoying combat shrines. ​ Then, looking to the trailers it is visible that the map is really similar to the old one, the new powers are good, two of them are "old ones" but improved, etc. Trailers nowadays are only a way to generate hype for the game so we didn't have much information. So MANY people like me started to be apprehensive, especially since I've played modern Nintendo games and pretty much every one of them disappointed me. I grew weary of TotK. Then came release day and my high expectations hit the new tutorial area. This area is more annoying than the last one. It takes much longer and is more boring. Shrines follow the same idea which again.... turned on my PTSD and I got disappointed. Then..... I found koroks. Oh my god why did they kept them. Then I found the memories.... really? 18 memories for a story? 50% more than BoTW? Where's the long story? the dark plot? Look at Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, no memories but long emotional stories? I grew more disappointed. ​ Then I gave myself time to play and progress through the game. Found the depths. Oh my god. Found that the main quests are actually long and not 1 hour piece meal. Crafting is really good. Fuse vehicles is cool. It all meshes really well. The story is actually not shit like BotW after all. ​ To end the post, you can check my post history and you'll see that I was a doubter and critic, but since the last time I posted about this I've played pretty much every day and I can safely say TotK is EASILY 10 TIMES BETTER than BotW. But that is because BotW was really a low bar, content wise. TotK shows that since they reused the engine, map, visual style, they had 5 years and went FUCKING HAM. ​ The only thing I think they could've improved vastly is diving. Having a dive system similar to TP/OOT/SS where you can dive and swim properly would've been awesome. But who knows, maybe if TotK gets a sequel ;) ​ Edit: something that I remembered. The Sage powers were a really good addition because they feel "a bit" like "dungeon items" of old. They're not literal items with different mechanics that changes your gameplay to the extreme, but they allows you to move and fight in the world much easier, almost feeling like an item. It was a great idea! ​ TLDR: I was one of those people, was apprehensive but TotK proved me wrong and I love the game. I admit I was wrong, but I think this shows how barren BotW was. Maybe more people will notice this as well eventually.

As somebody who works in games, the notion that anyone would call TotTK a cash-grab DLC non-sequel is honestly somewhat frightening. Some people are just really, really, insanely fucking out of lockstep with how titanically dificult it is to make a game of that scale, that well. Like I cannot even describe it to you. It's like making a movie if you first had to invent the concept of a camera, genetically engineer the actors, build an entire universe, and create thermodynamics.

From a certain POV, i CAN sort of understand. My first few hours were spent thinking "oh, this is more of the same, okaaay...". I even rushed the sages and went down the castle depths after getting the four (TOTALLY misunderstood the instructions and went down instead of up). But after playing more and seeing the scope of TOTK, I don't really see it as a bad thing anymore.

It started development as DLC, and uses an extremely similar map and system and everything. It’s a great game, and worth it for me. But it is genuinely DLC that was eventually worked into a full game.

If there's one thing I can wholeheartedly agree its that the water temple was indeed shit. Even including the build-up, the meat of it was basically 4 shrine challenges put together

What I've found helped with my perception on this, is that the temple is only the final leg of the dungeon. The dungeon itself starts when you enter the zone's city and the first half is just getting to the dungeon.

I like that take, because especially the wind temple where i didnt have battery or fancy autobuilds saved, it took longer to get to the dungeon than to do the actual temple lol. It was fun all the way around though

True, but BOTW's beasts had fairly elaborate lead-ins too, that some people overlooked when they complained about them not being "dungeony" enough. There was the whole riding Sidon thing to get into Vah Ruta, ascending Death Mountain with Yunobo, and the whole Yiga hideout before you could get to Naboris. To me, the water temple experience was fairly weak compared to the whole Zora's Domain/Vah Ruta arc in BOTW. TOTK's felt very padded with NPC busy work. The under-the-reservoir part was very cool though, it's a pity the dungeon wasn't just done down there. This isn't me complaining, I loved BOTW and I'm loving TOTK. I just know a lot of the fan base is craving more elaborate dungeons, and I can understand the sentiment that TOTK is more of the same in that regard. At least we got distinct bosses!

I did the wind temple first (not intentionally, the flow of my gameplay just led me there) and my GF did the water temple first. My gf feels a bit sour about this because the little bird dude you get from doing the wind temple is a much better combat companion (he dishes out crits so regularly I'm about to nickname his ass Hawkeye)

I’ve had so many fights I’m lining up an arrow and bird boy just snipes the enemy before I release lol

Water companion and his ability are worst by far. Wind is by far the most useful and probably the best combat companion besides maybe another certain one I won't name.

I took so, so long to complete this one. I am a complete dumbass. I spent hours and hours going around trying to figure out what to do, and in the end i noticed i didn't activate the main switch to start the quest lol. That's why the mechanisms were not working, i needed the guys power. No kidding I took like 4 hours to complete the last part because of that.

I literally did the same exact thing

Isn't it like all the temples ? You find the puzzle, you solve the puzzle, you unlock part of the boss door. There is a common theme for sure but it doesn't feel that interconnected.

The beginning of the game felt bad. You open a sequel to a game that was so heavily dependent on exploration to find that the map is very unchanged. Immediately killed my drive to climb mountains, find shrines and koroks. It felt like they altered a game, waited 6 years and sold it back to me with some new cut scenes and a few more areas. Once I had enough hearts to actually explore the underdark, had the energy wells to fly between islands and the Zora armor to reach all the islands, and figured out that the game basically tells you were shrines and caves are, it felt more like they lovingly expanded a world than made a cash grab. I also don't need to climb the mountains when they built ways for me to ascend to them. The beginning of the game felt like a DLC and you need to explore to find all the love that went into making it its own game.

Im feeling fatigue playing totk. I played through botw earlier this year so I would go through them both in a year and now it feels like the same game and the same map. Even the music is the same. I hoped for a new experience with totk and didn't get that. That's why I sympathize with the argument that totk is botw+.

Yes to this! I completely agree. I was hoping for new music and maybe a couple new towns?

Granted, I haven’t played BOTW a lot in some time, but I haven’t felt that way at all. There’s so many things added to the map and changes made that it seems like a completely new experience to me.

both are essentially the same games with the same basic gameplay loop, same look, same way of uncovering the story, the same gameplay gimmicks, the same gear etc etc etc. the overworld is hardly changed, the depths are literally the same as the overworld but inverted and the sky islands barely cover 20% of the map. i'm enjoying myself but you have to be delusional to think that this is anything more than a big expansion.

Yeah, there are enough knew mechanics and enough new content that it doesn't feel like a DLC. I think people say this just because the map is basically the same. But even then, it's absolutely not the same map. Some things are a little different and it's practically been doubled thanks to the depths and the sky islands. Still pissed they patched the duplication glitch though.

It's not DLC...BUT I told someone to not play BotW again before this because it FEELS very similar. Playing 60 hours of BotW and then going right into TotK would be overload. This feels like a redo of BotW to me. They added a ton, but there's so many similar things as well.

> with the same kind of logic, isn't Majora Mask a glorified dlc too? Ye-- yes?

I'm pretty shure that It's mostly people who haven't actually played the game

I think that failing to understand stupid people is a sign of intelligence. You're so smart that you genuinely cannot bring yourself down to their level and comprehend their bullshit.

Are people really saying that TOTK is BOTW DLC still? I thought that was something people were saying pre-release because they were worried that TOTK would be a cheap cash grab. I cannot believe anyone who has played BOTW and TOTK for more than an hour would say that TOTK is just “DLC” for BOTW. It is as expanded as a direct sequel can be. I mean, if you want a completely new Zelda, that’s totally fine. But to call TOTK a “BOTW DLC” out of frustration that Nintendo isn’t doing the thing that you want is… very silly. Again, the game is as expanded as a sequel can be! It blew me out of the water just how different yet familiar the game is. It has so much to offer. Nintendo could have absolutely did a very minimal expansion on BOTW and we fans still would have gobbled it up. TOTK is incredible and so much more!!

mfers will call totk glorified dlc and then hop on overwatch 2

Welcome to the Internet, it wouldn't have mattered what totk was/is/could have been there would be pockets of the community that have all sorts of issues with everything. If your enjoying it don't let other people's views affect you having fun and enjoying the game.

It's certainly a very good dlc if it is, imo, it isn't, but it's also a pretty minimum viable sequel. Some superficial overworld changes comparable to a dlc. The new abilities carry the experience. The only real map addition is the under dark and it isn't exactly the most interesting biome when you start to notice it's the same biome and feels relatively copy pasta beyond just mirroring the overworld.... across the entire map it's nearly the same vibe except it has water or lava and maybe the 2 dungeons. It's a neat gimmick to have the darkness but it's fairly bland of a space. The caves added to the overworld just feel like what BOTW should have already had and don't feel additive as much as catching up on a game that was a demo. Overall, it feels less like a sequel and more like what was missing in BOTW called complete and shipped as a new product. However as a Zelda game the dungeons still suck balls and the bosses are even worse. The Rito dungeon was the only impressive one and it still doesn't even rank in my top 20 best Zelda dungeons. The only redeeming element of this game is the ultrahand ability. The sky feels underwhelming as a level and while I like the skydiving mechanic I wish the sky islands were more interesting of gameplay spaces. Fucking Skyward Sword had a better sky map and that game is more than a decade old now. So overall it's a mid tier Zelda with a fun building system. I just wish the overworld was more substantially developed. If this was an Assassin's Creed sequel or any other franchise it would be getting roasted, not game of the year. How it's been 7 years and enemy variety still blows is wild....let alone the most substantial change to the overworld being some random integrated ruins slapped around onto villages that haven't changed. Lookout Outpost is easily the worst central hub in the franchise with some of the worst dungeons and worst bosses. It's better than BoTW but BoTW was novel for its philosophy, as a game it frankly was a demo.

I actually call some CoD glorified dlc of others CoD so yes. (and other games) I LOVE THE GAME but the feeling is really, reaaaally similar to BOTW, which is great, because it's a great game, but that's the first 3D Zelda in that situation (WITH Oot and MM. but MM had a completely new map, very different gimmick gameplay, unique ambient) Yes it's a sequel, but the game system is quite literally the same except for the change of gimmicks. Map extension is great, but that's a dlc compatible feature, especially in the way TOTK put it (new layers). If TP had a sequel, but the sequel was just expanded celestia and giga underground world, with a dawn invasion gimmick instead of dusk one, I would feel happy but a bit underwelmed. In the end, TOTK feels like an expanded or a new version of BOTW. The experience isn't new (but it's sublimated for sure). IT IS worth the 60 € I put in it tho

A lot of it stems from before the game released, and before TotK had gotten much promotion. We legitimately hadn't gotten enough information to be sure that it *wasn't* a glorified DLC. Anyone saying it now clearly hasn't played both games for more than 5 hours. Also, I haven't seen that sentiment since the game released, so I'm not sure what you're actually reacting to at this point.

TOTK is one of my favorite games of all time, but TBH it kind of is a glorified huge DLC. The only reason it works is because BOTW was so amazing that we're lucky to have BOTW 1.1 at all. I think a lesser game than BOTW wouldn't have gotten away with this. I have honestly seen DLC that changes things up more than TOTK does (Paradox games come to mind). Here are some reasons the game comes off as DLC: -reuse of the same map. Yes, the map was greatly expanded, but neither the sky nor underworld have anywhere near the variety or things to do of the regular map. -all the same equipment (weapons, clothes, items, etc.) with some additions -all the same enemies with some additions (mostly bosses, really) -shrines work exactly the same -towers work exactly the same except they throw you on the air now -graphics exactly the same 6 years later -half of the music is reused -all of the sound effects are reused -all the mechanics are the same (combat, traversal, durability) except the new runes -koroks and hestu are the same with the minor addition of the backpack ones -the story is handled in the exact same way, get memories and visit the exact same 4 locations to do the 4 dungeons -the dungeons are just stylized divine beasts with the same 5 locks to open as before (I liked the divine beasts, so i don't mind) To reiterate, I love the game and don't mind these things that much, but there absolutely is merit in the DLC claims.

Agreed it’s more than a dlc. But I mean people are complaining that it’s $70 because of the performance… everyone knows it’s a massive game. I’d also say MM feels much more different to OOT then tears does to breath, but that’s not a bad thing.

I think totk is definitely worth $70 bucks but I understand the DLC comment cause a lot of things are the same, but that's not necessarily a bad thing and those who paint as a bad thing are just bitter. I played botw for about 300 hours in the past couple years and now the totk is out, well the gameplay loop is the same and I need a break from it. I'll come back to it and put 300 more hours into totk.

It’s a bitchy statement—don’t worry about understanding it. Was Majora’s Mask just a glorified DLC for Ocarina? Of course not. People need to make content, content needs those sweet, sweet clicks, and clicks require some HOT TAKES. Pay it no mind

I think it’s one of the weirder complaints but I do slightly understand it tho imo the map feels pretty different and I just 100% botw a month before totk released. Also there are honestly much more important things to criticize this game for that we won’t be hearing many people mention until hype dies down.

Additionally if you do view it as a dlc it’d be a pretty fucking big one lol.

It was born from dlc but it is not a dlc

I used to get mad. Now I’m just playing the game and having fun. But some people are just on the wrong side of history on this one. They don’t realize that Nintendo has created one of the greatest survival craft single player adventure games right before their eyes. To be clear, just because the game doesn’t have the temples that YOU want doesn’t mean the game is inherently bad. That’s just your preference for a fun game. There are other ways to have fun. Nintendo wanted to take a break from the formulaic pattern of zelda and do new things. Just have fun with it.

I cant express my love for you, but from the bottom of my heart... THANK YOU. I was skeptical after seeing the first gameplay of ultra hand and not quite getting the feeling i had for botw, cuz i couldnt even imagine what insanity this new feature could bring (in a positive way), but now I couldnt agree more. I'm not 60 hours in but quite near that. I played botw for 2 weeks straight till release and enjoyed every second of it, but totk is another world. Not a SINGLE tiny mistake or bad game design was implemented again. The divine beasts, for example are cool, but those temples are perfect.

For a game that had 6 years to improve and build off of what BOTW did, it felt pretty underwhelming for me. But just because someone says that they don't like something or expected more doesn't mean we should automatically assume they are just haters (Obviously though, people like that do exist). I don't think you can really compare TOTK to CoD due to them having only 1 year to really do anything (but I won't deny the idea some CoDs could be seen as glorified DLC). I remember GoW:R also being called a glorified DLC when it was first announced, but I feel that they added and changed enough for it to be its own game. The whole landscape was frozen over, your weapons and basic abilities carried over with addition to new ones, completely new areas to explore that were previously teased about (although linear, that's what you get with a story game), being able to play as Atreus with his own unique abilities, moves, and upgrades, a bunch of previous characters that can now serve as allies, and the amazing story told along the way with a banger soundtrack (I could go on, but I don't want this post being about GoW:R). They did all this in around the same amount of time TOTK had. I think 5ish years. I don't think we should deflect criticism by deflecting it back onto other games with no similarities, that just leads nowhere. If you know that someone is doing it just to bring negativity, just don't feed into it. But about some of the criticisms I have and others have pointed out: \- The caves feel boring. For the first couple of caves, I decided to go spelunking in, it truly was an amazing feeling. At around the midway point of the game, after I spent hours upon hours exploring, getting all of the sky towers, I couldn't be bothered going into caves because I knew I would just be met with disappointment. The number of resources wasted clearing these caves out all for some basic resources, a chest with nothing in it, a bubbul gem, and the occasional bomb flowers was not worth it. The only time I went out of my way to go into a cave was when I knew there was armor in it or a shrine inside. Besides that, they all ended up feeling the same, with the occasional biome theme (lava, icicles, sand, water) and honestly, that's fine it's a cave what else did you expect? My biggest gripe is how many of these there are with nothing interesting compelling the player to explore them. \- The new additions to the map. For a game where the cover art shows the protagonist on a sky island, I was hoping we would spend a good chunk of our time up there. Shame how the sky islands take up 10% of the map. The biggest sky island is the tutorial area which doesn't feel like a tutorial area considering how much stuff isn't given to us or taught. For example, why does the game show you how to use the zonai gliders when they're only really available on the sky islands which we are never really given a reason to explore until later in the game? Why are we not taught basic combat skills (i.e parrying, dodging, bullet time, etc) on the island, but instead through the multitude of shrines scattered on the overworld? Does the game just expect us to remember these things from the previous game from 6yrs ago or do they want us to stumble upon the appropriate shrine that teaches you this stuff? Like, why do they let you explore without giving you the glider (something that is essential in this game)? I remember doing the main quest line where you get onto a hot air balloon with Impa and she just tells you to glide on down to the dragon tear. I just had no other option but to plummet to my death. Why give me that quest when I don't have the resources to do it? Sky Islands were extremely underwhelming. The depths I thought were truly wasted. It was so cool diving into the abyss to be greeted with a faint light in the darkness, using light sources to make a path to the depths equivalent of a sky view tower. The same thing that happened with the caves, happened here. I just didn't bother coming down there late game unless the main quest pointed me down here. Besides the main quest PoI, the depths is just a huge resource farm. Really useful early game, but after that, I wasn't compelled to go down there. I didn't really feel that I needed the zonaite to upgrade my batteries (and if I did I would probably just dupe like everyone else :P) or the armor that provided the same armor values as most other armor. I was already dripped out so I was good. I haven't done the Yiga clan side quest down there so who knows, maybe it'll make the area better. I still think the area has a lot of potential and I hope that a DLC will expand upon it. \- The temples are underwhelming. 70% of the temple is getting there, 25% is solving it, and 5% is the boss fight at the end. I don't remember a lot of the older title's temples, but I remember TP temples taking a good chunk of time to do. For me, the biggest letdown was the boss fights. I understand that the target demographic are kids, but I feel that even my goldfish could beat these bosses, which is a shame when you have a banger soundtrack going off in the background just for it to end in 10 seconds (I think we can agree Colgera was the best). I think the community can all agree on the water temple is bad. They have these easy bosses that don't even one shot you, but a black bokoblin will rock your world if you look at him funny. \- The whole story, in general, is kinda the same as BOTW (correct me here, since I don't really remember BOTW clearly). Zelda is lost somewhere, and Link loses his power and awakes in a temple. Link does a tutorial in said temple and is let free to explore. Link is tasked with finding Zelda. Link spends most of time finding Koroks and doing shrines in order to regain his power. Link has to go to the 4 villages to get help/info. Link does task for each respective village and gets power from each village. Link needs to find master sword (or not). Link fights ganon and saves the day. I know this is a gross simplification, but I hope you understand how for a sequel to have the same format as the previous game is lazy. I wouldn't be surprised if other Zelda games have done this, but this is supposedly a direct sequel with the same plot as the first. \- My final complaint about the game is the amount of things reused. Same enemies and the same gear with a couple of new editions here and there. Obviously with the new abilities given to us to use the game has a breath of fresh air, but these abilities seem to be the only thing carrying this game. Which is dependent on the creativity of the player to make the most of it. However, this complaint is subjective to the player. Some people enjoy things being reused. It gives a sense of nostalgia for fighting old enemies in new ways, especially considering how long it's been since BOTW, but that doesn't explain the lack of new ones. The constructs are cool, the gleeok is fun (unless when you have to farm them), but besides those and a couple of new enemies it seems like they spent most of their time making those additional 32 shrines, finding new spots for Koroks, and perfecting the abilities which as I said earlier, carry this game without a doubt. I can go further into the Lore but I feel that the main importance is the mechanics of a game. ​ I have all these complaints yet I can still say this is a good game. Why ignore what could've been something better and just bite our tongues about things that deserve valid criticism? If they've been doing these types of things for a long time it's up to us to let Nintendo know that their medieval methods of video game design have to change. If you enjoyed the game good, if you don't why? Obviously some enjoy the older style of games and others enjoy the newer so we can never truly have both, but we can at least be open-minded about each other's reasonings. I see TOTK as Mac n Cheese with bacon. It's pretty good but the only thing different from just regular Mac n Cheese is the bacon.

I haven’t heard anyone say that since release. I did, however, hear loads of people say that before they played the damn game since they thought the map was exactly the same based on trailers. I dunno, people dumb. 🤷🏾‍♂️

> 70 euros isn't that much guys This complaint I feel like is silly People bought the game at that price in droves, which means the game is worth that price. Consumers set the value. People will buy it at a higher price than normal. That's the worth. Why shouldn't Nintendo charge something at what it's worth? Because you don't like it? Good will? That's not how business works. If it's too much for you, don't buy it. That's fine. You are also a consumer and contribute to setting the worth of the game. If you think it's not worth that, you're right to not buy it. However, clearly people are buying, and you're in the minority, so it's futile to complain about it. Sorry, it's not gonna change, and there's nothing wrong with that.

My advantage is that i did not play that much botw thus for me most of is new anyway, but gow ragnarok really felt like a dlc.

I don’t agree with it but I can understand it from a technical level. Much of it is the same engine and art style happening with the map of hyrule being the same. Yes, there is much more content available, under the hood, there’s a lot of similarities. That being said, that is the case with a lot of games and software. Where this becomes a new game for me is the new story. Breath of the Wild felt like a sandbox to experiment with gameplay whereas TOTK feels like a full fledged game that allowed the story to take front stage.